So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?

Castia said:
Should have gone after the Euro final in my opinion.

He's done a decent job at England, nobody can take away his semi final and final appearances but it's clear that a step up in manager is needed to get us over the line and finally win a tournament.

His recent squad choices have been completely bizarre as well, over picking players in random positions and also claiming player x,y and z didn't make the squad because they aren't playing at club level but then proceeds to pick the likes of Shaw and Maguire who have barely played a game.
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He will get the World Cup. England will probably do ok - QF or so - and he will then step down. Can’t argue that he’s been anything less than a success, with a final and SF in his two major tournaments and stabilised England after a disastrous decade beforehand. People do remember 2016 right?

He picks Maguire and Shaw because England are weak in those positions. Frankly, Shaw is England’s best LWB by a distance and Maguire is probably the best CB. If they were wingers or right backs who weren’t playing, then he’d obviously be able to drop them.
 
I don’t understand why Southgate is so immune to criticism. It’s not just the media but a chunk of oppo and England fans seem desperate to defend him too….he’s absolutely shite.
 
SilentWitness said:
I don’t understand why Southgate is so immune to criticism. It’s not just the media but a chunk of oppo and England fans seem desperate to defend him too….he’s absolutely shite.
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Because England players aren't that good apparently so it's ok for him to be tactically naive.
 
giorno said:
Good thing the world cup is not happening at the moment, but a month from now
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True enough, but he is only giving evidence that he has lost whatever touch he seemed to have with this squad rather than evidence that he knows his best team, formation, knows how we're going to score goals.

It's going to be tricky to turn it on like a tap. I'm not saying you have to fire on all cylinders before a tournament to do well but we have been absolutely appalling in the build up which is another thing altogether.
 
Teja said:
Who specifically? Foden, Sterling were key parts of a title winning City side. Spurs are basically Harry Kane FC and he only needs to move to Bayern for the continent to start singing praises about him. Likewise with James, Walker - extremely important players for their clubs and they do well deep in the CL.

Dier has been fantastic since Conte took over Spurs.

Only ones you can really question are Saka, Maguire and Pope. Which national team doesn't have 3 average players really?

It is definitely a failure in coaching.
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Saka isn't average :wenger:
 
CarbonStoolBites said:
I genuinely think Trent should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
We all know he can’t defend, but his delivery and inventive passing is truly exceptional, both from open play and from set pieces, he is special in that regard.
Southgate is a dino but he could’ve experimented with formations and set ups.

A 4-4-2 that morphs into a 4-3-3 ala United vs Chelsea in 2008 CL final for example.
Reece James at RB, Trent in the “Hargreaves” role on the right of the midfield with Kane and Sterling/Rashford up top and Foden in the “Ronaldo” role on the left.
Rice and Bellingham in the middle, could’ve been interesting I reckon.
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Trent??

He has been abysmally poor for Liverpool this season, no way he should be anywhere near the England squad, nevermind in the team.
 
SilentWitness said:
I don’t understand why Southgate is so immune to criticism. It’s not just the media but a chunk of oppo and England fans seem desperate to defend him too….he’s absolutely shite.
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As an outsider looking in it’s crazy. Both England fans and non England fans defend him so much I just don’t understand it.

I think it must come from some kind of subconscious reluctance to admit that England is kinda decent right now player wise, as a sort of pushback to the usual media hyping of players, and so that reluctance goes hand in hand with saying “Well if the players aren’t that good then that means the manager has to be doing a really good job” and so he gets defended a lot.

If Southgate was churning out performances of the quality of football that England produces, with players like the ones he has, at United, Real Madrid, Chelsea or Arsenal, no one would tolerate that.
 
Zehner said:
Looking at results is pointless if you don't consider how they came to be
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They came to be by them generally beating the brakes off weaker teams. So? They *beat* them. Handily.

Losing by the tighest of margins to teams of the same caliber, after deep runs, is hardly an "issue". They're not fecking 1970 Brazil ffs
 
horsechoker said:
Because England players aren't that good apparently so it's ok for him to be tactically naive.
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Yeah people are saying he’s much better than previous managers but Englands talent is miles better than anything they’ve had to choose from compared to the 2010’s. That’s my entire issue with Southgate. England has a bunch of really good footballers but he sets them up like a bottom table side coming up against Man City and just trying to batten down the hatches.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Pretty confident ireland could beat Tunisia and Panama. Colombia is a hard one. But any time in that tournament they faced a solid team. They lost. Belgium (Group stage and 3rd place match) twice and Croatia. Its amazing Gareth fooled everyone.
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Yeah pulled the wool over eyes of the British media and those tournament fans too
 
CM10 said:
Southgate has got away with a lot on the basis that he's got England to a World Cup semi final and a Euros final.

The football has been uninspired for quite a long time and I don't have any faith he can turn that around. He got results when the draws were favourable but (Germany in the Euros aside) any time Southgate has faced a decent team, he has been shown up.

I imagine it'll be a pretty insipid World Cup. England will just about muster their way out of a very ordinary group and then the first good team they face in the knockouts will beat them fairly comfortably.

Hopefully then England can look to a more adventurous or at least more accomplished manager.
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You could even say Germany aren't the usual force in last two tournaments as well
 
giorno said:
They came to be by them generally beating the brakes off weaker teams. So? They *beat* them. Handily.

Losing by the tighest of margins to teams of the same caliber, after deep runs, is hardly an "issue". They're not fecking 1970 Brazil ffs
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You can fluke your way to a final or even a title but relying on fluking is hardly a recommendable strategy. Southgate was lucky to get to those games and it is highly unlikely that he'll be as lucky again.
 
giorno said:
Ok, who do you replace literally the most successfull manager you've had since Alf Ramsey with?
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Successful ≠ the best. Success greatly depends on luck and random chance, as well. Which was exactly the case for Southgate. We still clearly remember HOW England reached the final and all the abysmal games he won on coin flips.

Calling Southgate successful is like saying Ole was successful because he got United to an EPL 2nd place. Just like Ole, Southgate won't get lucky twice and will shit bed soon. Because both of them are fundamentally crap coaches and managers.
 
The minute he leaves international football and returns to club management, he'll remind everyone how below average he is.
 
Will never blame Jadon,Marcus & Saka for losing that Euros final it was all on Southgate, just like that World Cup Semi Final was on him.
 
BlackShark_80 said:
Fulham, Bournemouth, or Forest maybe.
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Fulham are 6th in the league, drawing against Liverpool and giving Arsenal a game. Why would they take him?

Southgate would make Bournemouth and Forest more defensive which they probably require, but they would not score enough to stay up. His Middlesborough team scored 28 goals in the season they went down. If you don't score at least 35, you usually go down.
 
croadyman said:
You could even say Germany aren't the usual force in last two tournaments as well
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I want Southgate gone too but it's always an achievement to knock Germany out of a tournament no matter how good they are. They are serial winners.

Especially for England as we struggle against them so much.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I want Southgate gone too but it's always an achievement to knock Germany out of a tournament no matter how good they are. They are serial winners.

Especially for England as we struggle against them so much.
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Yeah probably one of only two results I was impressed with in his time in charge,other being that win in Spain when we cared about Nations League.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
The minute he leaves international football and returns to club management, he'll remind everyone how below average he is.
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Who is hiring him after he is inevitably sacked? Don't think anyone in the top 2 tiers are taking him.
 
Would be interested to see what Tuchel or Pochettino could do with this team,failing that look at someone who may not be biggest name but has tactical acumen and attacking mindset.

Shouldn't restrict our search to just English managers as talent pool is tiny with Howe & Potter gone.
 
Should’ve been sacked the day after he utterly wrecked that final against an ageing, leggy Italy side.

He single handedly denied England a trophy in that game - he did more to give it to Italy than the Italian players did.

Instead he was given a new contract.

Utd-esque from the FA.
 
Im gonna go ahead and say it as clearly it's against the grain, but as far as im concerned he can keep the job as long as we keep on playing well and progressing in tournaments. I mean jesus christ, we reached a World Cup semi final and a Euros Final. Under the previous regimes we've done feck all and look utter shite. Yes we have looked poor for a while, but when that World Cup kicks off i am going to be belting out that Atomic Kitten song along with the rest of yous and getting behind him and the team, and hopefully we make a final again and go one better. If we fail in the quarters then sure give him the sack then.
 
iammemphis said:
Im gonna go ahead and say it as clearly it's against the grain, but as far as im concerned he can keep the job as long as we keep on playing well and progressing in tournaments. I mean jesus christ, we reached a World Cup semi final and a Euros Final. Under the previous regimes we've done feck all and look utter shite. Yes we have looked poor for a while, but when that World Cup kicks off i am going to be belting out that Atomic Kitten song along with the rest of yous and getting behind him and the team, and hopefully we make a final again and go one better. If we fail in the quarters then sure give him the sack then.
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That happened despite having Gareth Southgate as a manager, seriously.
 
Cloud7 said:
As an outsider looking in it’s crazy. Both England fans and non England fans defend him so much I just don’t understand it.

I think it must come from some kind of subconscious reluctance to admit that England is kinda decent right now player wise, as a sort of pushback to the usual media hyping of players, and so that reluctance goes hand in hand with saying “Well if the players aren’t that good then that means the manager has to be doing a really good job” and so he gets defended a lot.

If Southgate was churning out performances of the quality of football that England produces, with players like the ones he has, at United, Real Madrid, Chelsea or Arsenal, no one would tolerate that.
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But that if anything makes the football even more inexcusable.

The football on display can only really be justified if it comes with silverware and the one chance he had to put some on the table he made some of the most bizarre decisions I've ever seen.
 
iammemphis said:
Im gonna go ahead and say it as clearly it's against the grain, but as far as im concerned he can keep the job as long as we keep on playing well and progressing in tournaments. I mean jesus christ, we reached a World Cup semi final and a Euros Final. Under the previous regimes we've done feck all and look utter shite. Yes we have looked poor for a while, but when that World Cup kicks off i am going to be belting out that Atomic Kitten song along with the rest of yous and getting behind him and the team, and hopefully we make a final again and go one better. If we fail in the quarters then sure give him the sack then.
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Do you not look at the teams we beat to get to the semi final and final and think we should have got there ? Who did we beat that we shouldn’t have beat ? The draws got us to those positions and we failed to take advantage.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Do you not look at the teams we beat to get to the semi final and final and think we should have got there ? Who did we beat that we shouldn’t have beat ? The draws got us to those positions and we failed to take advantage.
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I look at the other top teams perishing to similarly shite sides in the knock-outs, or not even making it out of the groups, and think you know what? In the past, England sides have been woeful (Iceland immediately springs to mind) in key tournament games, and yet i saw an England Team play with a cohesiveness and team spirit that in the past would have found a way to fail, and yes we ultimately failed against Croatia ( still went a goal up) and Italy (still went a goal up) and i see something I haven't seen before. Southgate is abit of a melt, but he has bonded this England side better than anyone else has and he has also created a good relationship with the media where they all aren't constantly being hounded with negativity.

Like the players and the majority of this country, I couldn't give a flying feck about the friendlies and nation leagues and what have you, they are all exhibition games. The crunch comes down to the tournament football. We are not Spain who are known for tiki-taka i know who used to dick every team they faced whether it was a kick about or not, but i think we are building something that other teams fear when they come up against us. We are strong in major tournaments again. I think when it matters these players are going to perform and i fully expect us to reach at least a semi's again. And if we don't then fair enough sack him.
 
Cloud7 said:
As an outsider looking in it’s crazy. Both England fans and non England fans defend him so much I just don’t understand it.

I think it must come from some kind of subconscious reluctance to admit that England is kinda decent right now player wise, as a sort of pushback to the usual media hyping of players, and so that reluctance goes hand in hand with saying “Well if the players aren’t that good then that means the manager has to be doing a really good job” and so he gets defended a lot.

If Southgate was churning out performances of the quality of football that England produces, with players like the ones he has, at United, Real Madrid, Chelsea or Arsenal, no one would tolerate that.
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You're overthinking it, it's just because he reached a semi final and then a final in two consecutive international tournaments, so he's got a lot of credit in the bank. Most football fans aren't hugely interested in performances or tactics, it's just about results, so they look past the obvious weaknesses of Southgate as a manager.

I think Southgate did a good job in a kind of transitional phase for England. When he took over we had the weakest England squad for quite a while. He gave chances to some young players breaking through, created a positive environment, and did better than his predecessors who had better squads to work with (except Hodgson, who did worse with an equally shit squad). He's evidently outclassed by better managers at the top level though, and can't get the best out of what is now a decent group of players, and I think most people who are more than casual football fans recognise that. The media play along mostly to the casual football fan, and they're currently in the phase where they build someone up, the inevitable will soon happen, Gareth will run out of credit and the press will turn on Southgate with the toxicity that they are renowned for.

If he gets a quarter-final finish or better in the WC he can leave gracefully, with thanks for his efforts, and England should be looking to bring in a better tactician who can take this team up a level. Staying beyond the world cup would guarantee a toxic couple of years until the next major tournament with Southgate coming under immense pressure and scrutiny. My worry is he lucks another semi or final and stays on for longer.
 
phelans shorts said:
Just saying something doesn’t make it a fact.
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No, it’s an opinion - just as you’re stating… what’s your point here?

Gareth Southgate has hamstrung this England side with laughably negative and cowardly tactics - the ultimate of these culminating in that final where he played slow, long ball football against an ageing, leggy side with great CBs, firing pointless balls to Harry Kane all game while Foden, Grealish, Sancho and Rashford sat on the bench.

He then brought on TWO players who’d barely featured all tournament to take unbelievably high pressure penalties.

It was unbelievable and he should have been sacked following that.

He’s a loser of a manager and though I think he seems like a decent person, that doesn’t matter - it isn’t what he’s paid millions to do.

This England side has been held back by him.

Again, he seems likeable and decent, but we need to move on from nonsense like that affecting pragmatic thought.
 
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Southgate obviously played a part in getting us to that semi and final, it’s disgenunious and frankly daft to claim otherwise, but he also played a big old part in us failing to get further in those instances due to his fearful and risk averse strategy to the point where it was damaging.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
No, it’s an opinion - just as you’re stating… what’s your point here?

Gareth Southgate has hamstrung this England side with laughably negative and cowardly tactics - the ultimate of these culminating in that final where he played slow, long ball football against an ageing, leggy side with great CBs, firing pointless balls to Harry Kane all game while Foden, Grealish, Sancho and Rashford sat on the bench.

He then brought on TWO players who’d barely featured all tournament to take unbelievably high pressure penalties.

It was unbelievable and he should have sacked following that.

He’s a loser of a manager and though I think he seems like a decent person, that doesn’t matter - it isn’t what he’s paid millions to do.

This England side has been held back by him.

Again, he seems likeable and decent, but we need to move on from nonsense like that affecting pragmatic thought.
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England wouldn’t have reached the semi or the final without him. As evidenced by all of the sexier managers they’ve had in the past that can’t hold a candle to him record wise, despite having been blessed with better squads.

Tactics is a tiny part of international management, and it’s idiotically simplistic to ignore that.
 
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