I have little sympathy for him, after such a long season why did feel the need to keep starting the likes of sterling, kane, Maguire, stones, walker, mount, saka, rice, trent etc.., he knows what these players are about and they need the rest and not played into the ground, the world cup is far more important than a glorified tournament of friendlies that is nations league, he should have been using fringe players to get a better idea of who will be good for the 23 man squad like Abraham, Bellingham, gallagher, bowen, sancho, rashford, gueye, tomori, trying a new left back instead of having to resort to using trippier which hurts our width
So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?
- Thread starter Dirty Schwein
- Start date
This is an interesting take. I’d be fascinated to see you expand on it.
Yeah I think it will take a spectacular series of events for Southgate to be sacked. The FA have the same lack of urgency Kroenke and The Glazers have in the sense they don't act until things becomes totally untenable.
Even a group stage exit will be forgiven (like in 2014) I feel, the only way I maybe can see the FA's hand being forced is if it comes hot on the heels of Ole vs Liverpool/City esque humiliations in the next Italy/Germany nations league fixtures, and even then I'm not too sure.
No way an early group exit is forgiven from that World Cup group. He will be sacked if he fails to qualify from that.
The southgate (semi) final apologists are exactly the same as the Ole came second brigade.
Just blind stare at results and that's it.
Just blind stare at results and that's it.
It is stupid to compare tournament(NT job) football with club football.
Yeah, two different sports.
Maybe England should sign a CM Thiago, oh wait. same sport different rules.
Ofcourse that doesnt work, just like there are only tactics for NT's or club teams. And only managers for NT's or club teams. And it isn't like the players playing for National Team's play for club teams.
Find it also weird when people compare leagues, playing football in the UK is completely different than playing football in Spain. Heck, playing football in Manchester isn't even the same as playing football in London.
Revelation.
I don't know what your post meant to say, anyways NT is tournament football, winners play for a month and around 6-7 games at max. Only thing that really mattes is winning. Most of the tournaments are played once in 4 years, so playing good football takes backseat, it's all about winning and making as far as possible with any type of game to achieve that result.
Club football is your daily routine, you need manager who play good football, team to play attacking football scoring lot of goals. You need results and good football.
It's not really hard.
This is all true, but winning comes most often with good football. There are a few that are experts in deviating from that, like Italy. But the last winners most often had a great squad, and played good football.
To me, England has a great squad. They might miss one world class CM, but Southgate is pragmatic and very much a coward. England's recent accomplishments are very much despite him, rather than because of him I'd say.
Granted I realise that England has had better squads in the past and performed worse, that doesnt mean he's great. England has also been lucky with some very fortunate draws and the home advantage at the Euro's.
Looking back at the fixtures Euro / World Cup even, it was all so minimal.
The argument is often made that England can't play more expansive or they'll be exposed. Personally, I think it is rather that they aren't able to with Southgate, he isn't tactically strong enough for that.
Euro - Italy for a change played good football, Finalists England played okayish football
World cup - France - defend and counter attack. I don't think they played good football
Euro - Portugal - Hit and hope football
World cup - Germany - they played good footballl.
Euro - Spain - they played good football both in 08 and 12.
World cup - Spain - Not sure how to rate them as their games were boring and they were not the reason for that.
Apart from Spain and to an extent Germany, I find most NTs are pragmatic, I don't see any other NT playing good football.
Re Southgate, I agree and in this same thread I made same arguments yesterday. England can't play attacking football because Southgate doesn't have that ability.
For England NT he has done decent-good job, they reached finals and semi finals, they got decent draws but that's tournament football. You can only beat the teams you play.
Spot on. It’s ridiculous with the players he has that he sets up so negatively. The draws got England to where they were. There wasn’t really a team in either run, at the time, that you didn’t favour England to beat. When it mattered Southgate had no answers other than his starting point.
Aye, it looks like Southgate has learnt from the success of Portugal and France in 2016 and 2018 and has been building the same stuffy contain-and-counter model. The problem is the inevitable pattern that has developed of losing control of midfield against top opposition where England's best plan seems to be to hang on to penalties. Despite the soft opposition faced so far, that's not sustainable in a normal tournament run where you might come up against 2-3 top sides.
Roy was and he didn't have semi and a final tax to fall back on. It was only after he followed that up with losing to Iceland at the next tournament he got his marching orders.
Yeah, France were able to pull if off as they were superb counter attacking team with Mbappe pace and Pogba's passing range. Their defense was solid too.
IMO he is limited manager and this is what he is capable of. Its tricky to sum him up, I would say limited manager who has done decent-good job. England can hire better manager easily.
I keep reading posts like that. But then I look at the team sheets and I see Pickford, Maguire and Stones in defense, a CM of Rice and Philipps?
Forgetting the fact we go too a SF and Final
for a team with such attacking prowess in the squad, like ridiculously so, I pull my hair out with how defensive he plays us…it’s a sporting crime of the highest order!!
Nice bloke, but I just can’t see his managerial abilities being potent enough to unshackle this England squad which he has shackled
for a team with such attacking prowess in the squad, like ridiculously so, I pull my hair out with how defensive he plays us…it’s a sporting crime of the highest order!!
Nice bloke, but I just can’t see his managerial abilities being potent enough to unshackle this England squad which he has shackled
Switch Maguire for Tomori and Rice for Bellingham and all of a sudden you have a more suitable rooster for more aggressive football.
But regardless, no one's expecting a Bielsa highline, there's a middle ground between that and a Pulis tribute act.
I think Southgate will be gone after this world cup. England will go out early in the world cup and i think fans are starting to get on his back with the way England are playing.
Maguire is very good for England, and Southgate chooses to play defensive midfielders. He could have easily opted to play a Rice, Mount, Foden midfield. Now he has Bellingham, but it's just negative from him.
France are quite pragmatic, but they had a very clear and good strategy that was difficult to beat. Also scored quite some goals.
Portugal are just horrible, fluke win. Agree with you in general.
As a neutral I thought England loosing the Euro final was purlely down to Southgate cowardice, I had no idea what threat he was sitting so deep to absolve, it was just Chiesa that had any threat, while England had the likes of Kane and Sterling on, even after Chiesa came off England still sat deep.
I wanted England to win due to them having a few united players but after seeing Southgate approach I thought totally deserved loss.
It was giving Saka the 5th penalty that was the most unforgivable. He was quite evidently overwhelmed by occasion and was inevitably going to miss.
If England had been a bit braver the game probably wouldn't have gone to pens at all.
Yes and bringing on subs only to play pens was pure dumb move, it puts too much pressure on that player, same thing happened to Noble a pen expert vs United.
I've always loved following England (when it comes to actual international tournaments). But Southgate just kills the thrill I have watching us play. For the first time in my lifetime, England have players with the technical skill to move the ball like prime Barca and he has us playing like Leicester City.
Doesn't help that our only real options in goal and upfront are Pickford and Kane. Just so unlikeable.
Doesn't help that our only real options in goal and upfront are Pickford and Kane. Just so unlikeable.
Southgate is going to cost us the World cup.
We have some world class players not utilised properly.
Kae is exceptional, he needs runners beyond him on the wing, we play Grealish, Mount who like to come to the ball.
We have some exceptional midfielders but persist with 2 DM's.
The pressing is a joke, the reliance on set piece is a joke too.
We have some world class players not utilised properly.
Kae is exceptional, he needs runners beyond him on the wing, we play Grealish, Mount who like to come to the ball.
We have some exceptional midfielders but persist with 2 DM's.
The pressing is a joke, the reliance on set piece is a joke too.
To be fair a Mount/Rice/Foden midfield is quite experimental. Neither Foden or Mount are proper midfielders for their clubs. It might work or it might backfire horrendously against better teams to have only one conventional midfielder. It's something he probably could have experimented with at some point.
Is it feasible to get rid of Southgate before Qatar? England have a damn good team and this guy's doing nothing for you.
I don't know but England always had a good team but previous managers never achieved what he done other than being embarrassment to football world.
We lose by or draw against pretty much every good side we play.
If Southgate didn’t have more luck than any other other England manager with draws and a generation of talent with the right mentality, he’d be long gone.
If Southgate didn’t have more luck than any other other England manager with draws and a generation of talent with the right mentality, he’d be long gone.
I'll give him his dues for the world cup. Yeah not the hardest run but we were still recently off tournaments losing to Iceland and finishing bottom of a group Costa Rica won. It was also pre the talented late 90s/00s generation coming through so the talent wasn't really in the squad. I actually thought the football was pretty good relative to the lineup, was some high energy pressing football there.
However since then he should have really evolved his tactics and approach but has totally regressed (despite getting to a final in what was effectively a home tournament). Can honestly see a totally uninspiring world cup.
Southgate got good results and England plays well, but they have been poor this nations league in attack.
I am not sure he has a settled side for this world cup. The star right backs in James and TAA are not doing as well as for clubs.
Playing Trippier over them might make sense.
Shaw was fantastic for them in Euros and after his decline they have lacked a solid left back.
I am not sure he has a settled side for this world cup. The star right backs in James and TAA are not doing as well as for clubs.
Playing Trippier over them might make sense.
Shaw was fantastic for them in Euros and after his decline they have lacked a solid left back.
Chilwell is excellent, if he can regain fitness.
Does a white shirt make Harry Maguire more mobile or faster? Have you considered that playing with a defensive setup and defenders looking "good" might be connected?
Amazed no one has ever mentioned Jacob Ramsey, would love him at United, the lad is going to be an absolute star. Anyway from the outside looking in, as an Ireland fan, I've always thought you need to get James and TAA in the same team but Gareth has often failed to use either of them. For me the whole point of having Rice is that you forgo footballing ability to have a guy who is incredibly capable of holding down the defensive side of midfield on his own (hell even Makele couldn't do this like Rice). So that means your full backs can be attacking. For me this is the England team I have:
Henderson (simply a better keeper than the rest despite game time)
James Tomori Stones Shaw/Chilwell
Rice
Ramsey/Gallagher Bellingham/Mount
Bowen Foden Sancho
Kane
For me that is the best English team you can put out. Bowen has to be there simply because he offers something different and has outperformed everyone else. The problem is Southgate uses another midfielder beside Rice when the whole point of Rice is that the other guy can be wholly attacking.
Edit: also the other midfielders are all absolute workhorses as players so you don't have any luxury players in midfield but have much more quality. Sancho is in because he offers a much higher upside than the overrated Grealish. Maybe him at 10 instead of Foden though and Foden on the left.
Henderson (simply a better keeper than the rest despite game time)
James Tomori Stones Shaw/Chilwell
Rice
Ramsey/Gallagher Bellingham/Mount
Bowen Foden Sancho
Kane
For me that is the best English team you can put out. Bowen has to be there simply because he offers something different and has outperformed everyone else. The problem is Southgate uses another midfielder beside Rice when the whole point of Rice is that the other guy can be wholly attacking.
Edit: also the other midfielders are all absolute workhorses as players so you don't have any luxury players in midfield but have much more quality. Sancho is in because he offers a much higher upside than the overrated Grealish. Maybe him at 10 instead of Foden though and Foden on the left.
In answer to the OP:
Leaves England after the next Euros citing fatigue and it being time for a new challenge
Takes over a big English club (Liverpool?) ending in failure
Ends up, via a moderate foreign adventure, at Palace or West Ham or Villa where, despite regaining a degree of respectability, he achieves nothing more than a decent European run and a lost cup final but has filled the Hodgson vacuum admirably.
Leaves England after the next Euros citing fatigue and it being time for a new challenge
Takes over a big English club (Liverpool?) ending in failure
Ends up, via a moderate foreign adventure, at Palace or West Ham or Villa where, despite regaining a degree of respectability, he achieves nothing more than a decent European run and a lost cup final but has filled the Hodgson vacuum admirably.
Like you have a chance Southgate or not.