So... Was it a red? (Casemiro / Hughes Royal Rumble)

Was it a red?

  • Red

    Votes: 409 33.5%

  • Yellow

    Votes: 415 34.0%

  • No card

    Votes: 270 22.1%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 69 5.6%

  • Can you repeat the question?

    Votes: 59 4.8%
  • Total voters
    1,222
If Crystal Palace and Hughes have any sense they will contact United and pledge that they are happy to testify in Casemiro’s defence. That Hughes never felt threatened or that it was an aggressive act.

We’re playing Leeds and Leicester next who are both hovering around Palace.
 
Rolaholic said:
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Jeppers7 said:
It’s stranage to see so many pundits side with United on something. Richard Keyes Andy Gray Linekar Shearer Wright Waddle all in agreement that this was misrepresented to the referee and what actually happened didn’t warrant a red. Waddle calling it one of the worst decisions he’s ever seen. In isolation it isn’t. But in the context of the melee it absolutely is.

What is worse for me is that you have to question the integrity of VAR.
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VAR became a subjective tool to influence matches. Clear penalties not given, reds ignored and some disallowed goals, all decisions without any continuity. We have VAR to cover the offside rule and even that does not work well.
 
Giggsyking said:


referring to 6 to the fans is probably the Liverpool 6 CL titles. I have no other explanation.
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If you ever watched Ben Foster's videos at Watford you'll know Hughes has always been a little scrote.

I'm not sure we should appeal as by letter of the law it could be a red, and they will surely close ranks to protect Marriner based on that. Never mind that he should have sent off others at the same time. We have Sabitzer now and Casemiro will be well rested for Newcastle.
 
The main problem we have with the appeal is not that a frivolous appeal could add an extra game and he’d miss Liverpool. It’s that these appeals seem to take forever to resolve and they’d likely drag this one because they can. So he’d be available while the appeal is ongoing and then if it wasn’t frivolous and was upheld he could potentially have played 3 games and start his ban on the Liverpool game and miss the final.
 
With the standard of refereeing as poor as it is, Casemiro should be wiser with all of his experience.

Referees have no ability to contextualise anything, they're badly programmed robots who get bad directives from above and apply them without any understanding of the game

Therefore, as soon as you grab an opponent and/or raise your hands near their neck or face you run a risk
 
city-puma said:
he got the yellow card after the fight was over. In the other words, he won’t get any punishment if there was no fight and the game would continue with us taking threw.
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Difficult to give him a yellow before the fight since by the time the ref gets there the incident had already started.
 
darko said:
Schluup deserved a red for his hit on Antony. If tge officiating clamped down on that, there wouldn't be the mess that there was afterwards.
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Totally disagree. Such bodychecks are very common. Shaw and Lisandro do them multiple times per game.
 
It can easily be justified that it’s not a red card.

It’s true that Casemiro with all his experience should know better than to put the ref in that position.

These can both be true at the same time.
 
Pexbo said:
If Crystal Palace and Hughes have any sense they will contact United and pledge that they are happy to testify in Casemiro’s defence. That Hughes never felt threatened or that it was an aggressive act.

We’re playing Leeds and Leicester next who are both hovering around Palace.
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Unlikely when their manager is coming out with dickhead comments like this.

I didn’t see the red card, I was far from it,” Vieira said, as per Manchester Evening News. “The game has to be played with respect, and sometimes when you don’t respect your opponent, things can happen. The player from United was looking for it, and he created this situation.”
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For some reason the MEN interpreted that comment as being about Casemiro but it’s obviously a reference to Antony’s flick right before Schlupp threw him down the slope. Which means he deserved to be assaulted, apparently.
 
georgipep said:
Totally disagree. Such bodychecks are very common. Shaw and Lisandro do them multiple times per game.
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There's a difference between a bodycheck and a push.

What did Antony do for Schlupp to go off like that anyway?
 
I have been watching football a long, long time and have seen countless cards given/not given incorrectly, for me, thought this was red, on reflection probably yellow or nothing, but can also see why the ref would give red, even with all of the footage.

What this incident has done though for me, is make me question the integrity of VAR, red or not red, the different footage shows a different interpretation of what actually happened, but it was represented to the on field ref in a way that did not give him the full information and left him no other choice but to issue a red card, at this point if VAR is going to represent incidents rather than allowing the on field ref to view all the footage then why bother, just have the VAR ref tell the on field ref to issue the card.

I am not the biggest VAR fan, offside is ok, but still not precise enough at identifying the point at which the ball is kicked (where the decision is fractional), but now every VAR incident I see my first thought will be, is this all of the footage? or are VAR constructive a narrative, to single out one incident in all of the melee is questionable, ok a full on punch etc. you would hope, but grabbing and shoving and pulling is a mockery.

The problem was with referees was always inconsistency and incompetence, what is the point of VAR if that is not addressed, time and time again now we see VAR being applied inconsistently.
 
Pexbo said:
The main problem we have with the appeal is not that a frivolous appeal could add an extra game and he’d miss Liverpool. It’s that these appeals seem to take forever to resolve and they’d likely drag this one because they can. So he’d be available while the appeal is ongoing and then if it wasn’t frivolous and was upheld he could potentially have played 3 games and start his ban on the Liverpool game and miss the final.
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Are they not competition specific now though? So even if all that happened he wouldn't miss the final, or am I wrong?
 
sepulturite said:
Are they not competition specific now though? So even if all that happened he wouldn't miss the final, or am I wrong?
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I think yellows are competition specific and reds carry over competitions or something stupid like that (which is why Guimaraes will be available for the final)
 
city-puma said:
Seriously, all of three are nonsense!
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What I meant was if what Casemiro did deserves a red card, then even Ayew and others should be sent off too, the referee should have just given an yellow card to both Schlupp (for the tackle on Antony) and Antony (for the scuffle with Schlupp after the tackle) and moved on. The maximum punishment for Casemiro should have been an yellow card but then again other players would have also deserved a card.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I think yellows are competition specific and reds carry over competitions or something stupid like that (which is why Guimaraes will be available for the final)
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Ah yeh that's right, I remember reading about Guimaraes the other day now that you mention it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Unlikely when their manager is coming out with dickhead comments like this.



For some reason the MEN interpreted that comment as being about Casemiro but it’s obviously a reference to Antony’s flick right before Schlupp threw him down the slope. Which means he deserved to be assaulted, apparently.
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remember when Antony did that twirl and we had fans and pundits lose their minds and said he shouldn’t be doing it at 0-0 but when we’re comfortably ahead in the game?
It’s like we make it up as we go along
 
Is there any chance the FA would "review" such a decision? It is obvious, that VAR just showed just one perspective and influenced the decision. Would be nice to give the ref to correct himself, after seeing all pictures.
 
Zed 101 said:
I have been watching football a long, long time and have seen countless cards given/not given incorrectly, for me, thought this was red, on reflection probably yellow or nothing, but can also see why the ref would give red, even with all of the footage.

What this incident has done though for me, is make me question the integrity of VAR, red or not red, the different footage shows a different interpretation of what actually happened, but it was represented to the on field ref in a way that did not give him the full information and left him no other choice but to issue a red card, at this point if VAR is going to represent incidents rather than allowing the on field ref to view all the footage then why bother, just have the VAR ref tell the on field ref to issue the card.

I am not the biggest VAR fan, offside is ok, but still not precise enough at identifying the point at which the ball is kicked (where the decision is fractional), but now every VAR incident I see my first thought will be, is this all of the footage? or are VAR constructive a narrative, to single out one incident in all of the melee is questionable, ok a full on punch etc. you would hope, but grabbing and shoving and pulling is a mockery.

The problem was with referees was always inconsistency and incompetence, what is the point of VAR if that is not addressed, time and time again now we see VAR being applied inconsistently.
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I personally believe the reason the ref gets shown one angle is a direct result of people moaning about decisions taking too long. If there wasn't a huge discussion around this when VAR was implemented then there would be more time to show other angles etc.

I second the bolded part. It's said that VAR isn't supposed to "re-referee games" but with the amount of terrible decisions refs are making, it almost seems necessary.
 
georgipep said:
Totally disagree. Such bodychecks are very common. Shaw and Lisandro do them multiple times per game.
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Your view on this is a bit strange.

You think grabbing somebodys shirt is an instant red card, but running into somebody with speed and force intentionally(with no desire to win the ball), knocking them flying off the pitch into the railings isn't?!

What Schlupp did is 10x more violent and dangerous than what Casemiro did :lol: if anything it should have been red for Schlupp and yellow for Casemiro.
 
Trumpeter Whydah said:
A good morning northwards.

Both a grip on someone’s wind-pipe and on their collar is red in my book. Differentiation is all fine by me when it comes to the number of match bans, afterwards; but on the pitch, from a ref's perspective, it is exactly that, splitting hairs, I'm afraid. Hence my statement, yet I'll admit it achieves little.

Let's not get a quote ping pong get the better of us; you are right, everyone sees it their way, and I'm aware my stance may simply not be shared. I can't see how the ref could not have shown red, but that doesn't make me want to fall on your nerves, or someone elses, if I'm honest. Anyway, rules are there, enforcing not really, and better refereeing is definitively appropriate. Have a great day!
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Fair enough. No further ping ponging needed as far as I’m concerned. You have a great one yourself!
 
The more I watch the different angles and the interaction between the players the more I am convinced this was never a red
 
Resch said:
Is there any chance the FA would "review" such a decision? It is obvious, that VAR just showed just one perspective and influenced the decision. Would be nice to give the ref to correct himself, after seeing all pictures.
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The FA self regulate and review something to see if an error or injustice was done… Against United ?



jameson-laugh.gif
 
With no VAR he would've gotten away with it back in the day.

Unfortunately today games gone soft and rules are rules.

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If it's a red, then Ayew's chop on Fred was a red.

You can't DELIBERATELY look at the Ayew incident, decide it's not worth anything, then give Case a red for a less malicious reaction.

The double standards around the officiating there were shocking.

Either both are a red, or neither is.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Your view on this is a bit strange.

You think grabbing somebodys shirt is an instant red card, but running into somebody with speed and force intentionally(with no desire to win the ball), knocking them flying off the pitch into the railings isn't?!

What Schlupp did is 10x more violent and dangerous than what Casemiro did :lol: if anything it should have been red for Schlupp and yellow for Casemiro.
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Bodychecks are part of the game dynamics. Schlupp definitely didn't challenge for the ball and deservedly got a yellow card.

Casemiro grabbed Hughes by the neck/shirt collar outside of play. And thus deserved his red card.

As for violent and dangerous actions, you could argue that every head injury, every scissor tackle, etc. are far more violent and dangerous.
But the main difference is they are done as part of the game dynamics. Football is a contact sport.

But (and that's an important one) if a player lays hands on an opponent outside of play, that's totally unacceptable.
 
georgipep said:
And Schlupp got his yellow for it. And why Schlupp was aggressive towards Antony does not matter one bit.
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I was just wondering what Antony did.
Also Schlupp's push (not a bodycheck) was far more dangerous than Casemiro laying his hands on Hughes' neck.
 
Clear red unfortunately. Should be quite easy to keep your hands off oppo player's throats. Just don't do it.
 
troylocker said:
Clear red unfortunately. Should be quite easy to keep your hands off oppo player's throats. Just don't do it.
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Odd then that all the pundits on MOTD concluded that it wasn’t? Are Lineker, Wright and Shearer known to be massive United fans?

It’s not a red in context of what actually happened, viewing all camera angles. I’d agree he takes a risk but it’s one where a panel should exonerate him, if reviewed fairly.
 
Doracle said:
Odd then that all the pundits on MOTD concluded that it wasn’t? Are Lineker, Wright and Shearer known to be massive United fans?

It’s not a red in context of what actually happened, viewing all camera angles. I’d agree he takes a risk but it’s one where a panel should exonerate him, if reviewed fairly.
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If reviewed fairly there should be more red cards for grabbing troats, it's just a completely idiotic thing to do on a football pitch. Where do you draw the line between a violent throat grab and a non-violent one?
Just give all throat grabbing a red and get done with it. No need to see eyes poping out to give the red.
 
Rolaholic said:
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Changed my vote from red to no card after seeing the other angle. This var nonsense of showing the ref a still image from a misleading angle is ridiculous, and we shouldn't just accept it.
 
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Real Name said:
I was just wondering what Antony did.
Also Schlupp's push (not a bodycheck) was far more dangerous than Casemiro laying his hands on Hughes' neck.
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I don't disagree with that, but the rules are quite clear and also, physical clashes in open play are expected. Physical altercations when play is stopped are not tolerated.

I guess Schlupp was angry because Antony did a few tricks on the wing just before that.
 
georgipep said:
I don't disagree with that, but the rules are quite clear and also, physical clashes in open play are expected. Physical altercations when play is stopped are not tolerated.

I guess Schlupp was angry because Antony did a few tricks on the wing just before that.
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With your own logic, since the ball had already gone out of play when Schlupp shoved Antony down into the boards, it should not be tolerated and also be a red. It certainly wasn't part of open play.
 
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