The other reason why CR7 might not be considered Real Madrid's player is that he simply did not like Real Madrid that much.
So now what happens to Karim Benzema? | Hat-tricks, lots of hat-tricks
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How do you come to that conclusion? We know that Di Stefano names and legend has travelled through time, if anything you should make that point for Messi and Ronaldo but not for the man who is being talked about in 2022 when the peak of his career was in the 50s.
There is a real chance that someone like Ronaldo end up being remembered as a modern Gert Muller and not as high as he currently is.
I don't think the chance is that high.
Again these rankings are decided by fine margins , very fine margins and here we reach another problem, we can't base player evaluations on the descriptions given.
The way sir Bobby describes him is beautiful and befitting the great man but it actually paints a picture that might not be exactly true, you probably know this better than I do already but that was our first big game on the continental level for a very youthful and inexperienced side and they managed to have a very respectable showing of themselves, a lot of journos at the time thought that we could get the Madrid side next season but alas.
So here's the thing, I feel we can't properly gauge how good these players were without the available footage, and unfortunately for di estefano there simply isn't much available (im aware of the 1960 final were di estefano scores a hatrick and is obviously amazing but einteracht are just seem so amateurish in there).
So the best other alternative i could use to gauge di estefano aside from his stats is the quality of competition and the thing is that Madrid side had the fortune of being in the right place at the right time, the assembled a team(with guys like puskas who were there for political reasons) couldn't simply be assembled at any other time and the quality of the opposition was severely lacking, continental football was at its infancy and so the already expressed and mighty Madrid side was poised to steamroll the opposition, that to me is simply a lot less impressive than Madrid doing it in a packed era recently or millan doing the same in the early 90s.
He has immortalized his name already so nothing i say will detract from it but i made my point about why I don't necessarily rank him as highly.
We don't know how players travel through time, you and I have Ronaldo at the top of our minds because he represents our generation but that's only true for our generation.
Benzema's CL season so far is better than anything Ronaldo has done, except for 2017, which is somewhat equal. The number of goals, the variety, the importance of the goals, it's amazing. His overall play has been better than Ronaldo too. Ronaldo a better player overall for Real Madrid, but just for one-off seasons, Benzema is having an all-timer.
You make a fair point, Ronaldo has a massive market appeal and name recognition so that alone would insure him to be remembered in a very long time, definitely will be remembered in his home country.
Again lack of wc participation severely harms di Stéfano's name recognition as I don't think that many Argentinians know him more than they do compared to their other greats.
Footballing historians will obviously have a much different perception compare to your average fan so his name will obviously live on there.
I really don't get this point, how does it hurt him when he is routinely named among the all time greats despite being one of the oldest recognisable legends? You make that point as if Di Stefano wasn't currently recognized. It's pretty clear that it didn't hurt him during the past 70 years.
In fact just to tell you how the WC argument doesn't work, his teammate Kopa is an all time great and was a standout player during the 58 WC, his name hasn't travelled as well though.
It may be anecdotal but from my experience most people don't know him much, someone like eusebio (due to his 1966 world cup) or even Paulo rossi (who doesn't even belong in the goat tier) has greater name recognition in those who I've interacted with and these are mostly guys who know their football .
Its important to remember that for a long time the only outlet to watch the biggest stars play the game was the world cup most people didn't even know abouts the European Cup or any European club competition to be honest.
This is a football forum with an inarguably eurocentric bent so it may not look like that to your eyes.
I think the situations are a bit different although I can only go by what I read. Muller won the Ballon d'Or once. His teammate Beckenbauer won it twice, and won more Bundesliga player of the year awards. His other teammate Karl-Heinz Rummenige also won it twice. His opponent in the WC final, Johan Cruyff, won it three times. It seems clear to me that he was overshadowed by other players even in his generation.
It's an example, it's not be taken strictly. But regarding Ballon d'Or there is no comparison possible, the context is totally different, they didn't judge the same thing which is why France Football stopped the collaboration.
Di Stefano was born in 1926, some of that will be due to age, his last game for Real Madrid was in 1964. That's a few generations over now. But most people with good knowledge of football in Europe or South America will know who Di Stefano very well from my experience. One way that legends are coming back into the younger generation knowledge is through Fifa Ultimate Team, a lot of players of that would know Eusebio as one of the best players in that game
Agreed. Cunningham was the first Madrid player to get a standing ovation at the camp nou afaik.
He very much was actually. The difference between real madrid and the others was Di Stefano. Every other big club of the time had players of similar quality of ours besides him. And he was the team. The man wasn't just the best player in the world/europe, he changed the club's entire culture and the team's culture. He changed the way we trained, the way we played, everything. Until Muñoz he was basically the team's actual manager too. Everything, and i mean, everything, went through him
The only figure comparable is Bernabeu himself
To the average real madrid fan Di Stefano is God
You have a very high expectation of average Madrid fans football knowledge, but yeah to anyone who knows him he must be.
Your also definitely underselling some of the other players here, I'm pretty sure not every team had a puskas or gento in their ranks.
Before Cristiano joined Real Madrid they were the biggest club in the world and when he left them they were still the biggest club in the world.
Not to diminish his legacy but Ronaldo did not make Real Madrid what they are today, he's a great contributor and the best individual player they've ever hard no doubt.
But Alfredo Di Stefano is the one who made Real Madrid the biggest club in the world, without him Ronaldo wouldn't have done everything to leave a dominant Man Utd side who had made back to back CL finals to join a Madrid side that was getting knocked out of the CL in the RO16 every year
Not to diminish his legacy but Ronaldo did not make Real Madrid what they are today, he's a great contributor and the best individual player they've ever hard no doubt.
But Alfredo Di Stefano is the one who made Real Madrid the biggest club in the world, without him Ronaldo wouldn't have done everything to leave a dominant Man Utd side who had made back to back CL finals to join a Madrid side that was getting knocked out of the CL in the RO16 every year
He's ridiculously good. Some of the comments earlier in this thread look funny in hindsight.
Balon D'Or. Has to be.
Balon D'Or. Has to be.
You think the average manchester united fan doesn't know Bobby Charlton?
Puskas was old, fat, and joined in '58. While still an amazing player, he wasn't really better than the likes of Kubala, Suarez, Fontaine, Liedholm, etc anymore. Gento, again, all time great, but there were others of his level at others clubs. Same for Kopa too.
Oh, and he's the reason we signed Puskas in the first place, too. Bernabeu thought he was too fat and unfit, Di Stefano told him it didn't matter
Unfortunately after being aquiqnted to the cesspool that is twitter, no I don't think they do.
Sir Bobby at least has the luxury of being part of a world cup winning side in a very football heavy nation (their only title at that ) so probably has more name recognition due to that.
Nice bit of history about puskas , didn't know about it.
There is not an even one casual football fan in Spain who doesn't know Alfredo Di Stefano. Or Italy for that matter. Or Argentina
I hope you're right, because what I read on the internet doesn't Instill me with much confidence.
Not even really a chance. The technique is exquisite on the finish.
Yeah, but its impossible to recreate history, isn't it?
Nobody can ever be bigger than Di Stefano for RM, unless we talk about some wild future where the club literally collapse and someone has to come in and save us from ruins, and even then probably not.
In order to outdo Di Stefano, a player would have to win more than he has and be the actual catalyst, the technical and emotional leader of the club. It's not impossible but good luck achieving that.
Think its better than 16/17 personally, even though its close.
16/17 was an insane knock-out campaign, but the team was rather stacked, our 21/22 team is mediocre by comparison.
Damn, it actually made sense!
Kopa? He'd be lucky to make a top-10, no? Immense at his peak but his impact on Madrid's history was minimal compared to players like Gento, Modrić, Raúl etc. Did he even play 100 games for them?
The difference that the World Cup makes to Di Stefano's legacy is more about the gap between him being a top 5 or so player of all time compared to the top 10-15. As the generation who saw him die out, I think what will harm his legacy is how little of his career was on TV. Compared to the likes of Meazza and Zizinho before him, there's enough to make him reasonably credible, but not enough to really get a sense of how good he is when you compare him to players just a few years younger like Pele, Best and Eusebio.
Yeah exactly, I have a gauge of just how good eusebio was but can't say the same about Alberto, there really isn't much for di stefano aside from peer glorification and his 2 ballon d'or triumphs.
Only a graphic can show how overwhelmingly is Benzema the favorite for Balon d'Or.
Gonna have to disagree there, Ronaldo had 61 goals and 21 assists (21 assists!) in 2014/15 on a team that won absolute zero despite him performing valiantly all season. It's easy to forget what the guy was doing year in, year out, in RM.
I have no qualms with putting this Benzema's season on par with any of Ronaldo's season though. It's not because he has 41 goals instead of 50 or 60 that I'd put it not on par, I just wouldn't say it's better than every single season Ronaldo's had either. He's been as fundamental as Ronaldo's seasons this year, and it's been great to watch, and a big slap in the face for everyone that dismissed Benzema for an entire decade while he was already world class, baring 1 or 2 seasons.
If he wins Ballon D'Or it'll be fully deserved.
I think he was strictly referring to CL seasons. Overall, there are a number of seasons Ronaldo had at Madrid that eclipses Benzema’s current one (as good as Benzema has been).
Do we really have people questioning Di Stefano? I remember one journalist calling Johan fcuking Cruyff, an inferior version of Di Stefano. Yes Johan fcuking Cruyff, an inferior version of anyone. Ofcourse it is just an opinion of one journalist, but it shows how impactful Di Stefano was. I mean people really don't appreciate the likes of Pele, Di Stefano, Zico, Platini, Cruyff or now Messi(in his later Barcelona seasons), regarding how much difficult it is for a player to be the main creator and main goal scorer of a team. Constantly getting the ball, constantly having to look for the teammates to link. I mean if a player plays in a super team filled with world class players, all timers in thier respective positions and players who would have easily been the best player if they played in another team, yet that one player just overshadows everyone else. Like being a big fish in a small pond in great, but being the biggest fish in a pond full of big fish, is special.
Oh - then yeah this season from Benz is up there with Ronnie 16/17, for sure. Most likely better than all the other great CL campaigns Ronaldo had bar that one.
We should have signed him. He was what was needed after rvn.
Messi's goal scoring record leave a lot to be desired in the knockout rounds, even though he is the second best scorer of all time in there.
Maybe they man marked him too much?
It's a fake twit which tried to fool us Messi admirers. Don't believe it not even for one second.
Ahh so you back tracked you little Weasel
Jokes aside his ratio in knockout rounds is much lower compared to Ronnie's, but yeah upon checking the numbers, it blows everyone else's out of water.
I don't rate Gravesen that high. He is more of a top 10 player of all time.