So Jose Was Right?

[el3mel]

No, we've fallen way below that now. Haven't you been watching

Under Ole ? Because when he left he was already getting knocked out from the first round in league cup while stinking in the bed in the league.

Now, since when reaching semi final of cups is considered something worthy to be noted for Man United ? The team he inherited reached 3 finals in the previous 2 seasons, not semi finals.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Have people really decided that Rashford is trash after a poor season?

Probably, yes.

Or, rather: we have a segment of posters on here who always insisted that he wasn't good enough - and now they have been proven right (as they see it).

For me, it's a bit complicated. Rashford probably isn't good enough if "good enough" means the real deal, the genuine article, etc. I don't think he'll ever be that, sadly.

But he's obviously much better - potentially - than "trash" or anywhere near it. His numbers have been very good up until this season - as in, genuinely very good. Last season he was in the top bracket of attackers in terms of productivity (talking pure stats, g + a ratio per 90 and whatnot).

 

[In Rainbows]

They were still stronger than whatever shit we faced in that run. Half of our run back then was against Championship/League one level opponent, the other half was against WHU (finished 7th), Everton (finished 11th) and Palace (finished 15th). You realize how shit that is ? We faced only one freaking team from the top 10 in the Premier League in this Fa Cup run.

I myself celebrated winning the EL final against Ajax and the PSG win in Paris far more than this Fa Cup win you're talking about. Honestly, the only thing I was thinking about back then was "Ok fine, nice cup, when will he get sacked now?". Completely different from the enjoyment I got from Ajax final or Paris night.

The Europa League is a 2nd tier competition in terms of European Cups. The League Cup is a 2nd tier competition in terms of domestic cups. I would rather win the FA Cup, which is a 1st tier competition for Domestic Cup competitions.

 

[Giggs' right foot]

They were still stronger than whatever shit we faced in that run. Half of our run back then was against Championship/League one level opponent, the other half was against WHU (finished 7th), Everton (finished 11th) and Palace (finished 15th). You realize how shit that is ? We faced only one freaking team from the top 10 in the Premier League in this Fa Cup run.

I myself celebrated winning the EL final against Ajax and the PSG win in Paris far more than this Fa Cup win you're talking about. Honestly, the only thing I was thinking about back then was "Ok fine, nice cup, when will he get sacked now?". Completely different from the enjoyment I got from Ajax final or Paris night.

I'm not talking about it - you brought it up. I'm just pointing out that your perception of our "shitty opponents" in the FA Cup win, is just as applicable - and in my opinion even more applicable - to our EL 2017 route. An Ajax team full of milk teeth is far from being a memorable final win.

I too celebrated the EL win far more than the FA Cup, but that was because it gave us CL. It brought no spectacular moments as far as great games - on the contrary, we finished 2nd in the group, needed 120mins at OT to beat Anderlecht, was about to get knocked out to freaking Celta Vigo and John Guidetti and our team were almost always the oldest one, regardless of who we met. No charm, no excitement.

 

[Tyrion]

Regarding Mourinho, he's claimed every squad he's had in the last ten years was shite at one point or another. He's a broken clock and would have said that even if he was managing one of Fergies teams. Maybe he was right to criticise some of our players, but that doesn't change the fact that he's finished as a top level manager.

 

[el3mel]

The Europa League is a 2nd tier competition in terms of European Cups. The League Cup is a 2nd tier competition in terms of domestic cups. I would rather win the FA Cup, which is a 1st tier competition for Domestic Cup competitions.

Fa Cup has been a joke for years. Arsenal have won ton of these "first tier domestic competition" you are talking about in last few years.

I will take Europe League ahead of it any time any day.

 

[el3mel]

I'm not talking about it - you brought it up. I'm just pointing out that your perception of our "shitty opponents" in the FA Cup win, is just as applicable - and in my opinion even more applicable - to our EL 2017 route. An Ajax team full of milk teeth is far from being a memorable final win.

I too celebrated the EL win far more than the FA Cup, but that was because it gave us CL. It brought no spectacular moments as far as great games - on the contrary, we finished 2nd in the group, needed 120mins at OT to beat Anderlecht, was about to get knocked out to freaking Celta Vigo and John Guidetti and our team were almost always the oldest one, regardless of who we met. No charm, no excitement.

Definitely far more exciting defeating Ajax than Crystal fecking Palace in the final.

 

[Idxomer]

I'm not talking about it - you brought it up. I'm just pointing out that your perception of our "shitty opponents" in the FA Cup win, is just as applicable - and in my opinion even more applicable - to our EL 2017 route. An Ajax team full of milk teeth is far from being a memorable final win.

I too celebrated the EL win far more than the FA Cup, but that was because it gave us CL. It brought no spectacular moments as far as great games - on the contrary, we finished 2nd in the group, needed 120mins at OT to beat Anderlecht, was about to get knocked out to freaking Celta Vigo and John Guidetti and our team were almost always the oldest one, regardless of who we met. No charm, no excitement.

That's the reason I would rank the FA Cup win higher, the Lingard goal after Smalling's red card and Pardew's stupid dance gave me far more joy than the final against Ajax which we won due to a deflection and a set-piece.

 

[In Rainbows]

Fa Cup has been a joke for years. Arsenal have won ton of these "first tier domestic competition" you are talking about in last few years.

I will take Europe League ahead of it any time any day.

Not going to lie, Arsenal winning it like that does devalue it more than anything.

 

[Giggs' right foot]

Definitely far more exciting defeating Ajax than Crystal fecking Palace in the final.

I'm off - we're going in circles

 

[roonster09]

Yes we closed down that gap in the last few games after they hade secured their Top 4 spot and no longer could win the title. It’s ridiculous to compare the state of the 2 clubs at that point. They were 1 deflected Bale goal away from potentially reaching the CL final.

No it's not true. There was never a point where they secured top 4. Infact had we won that game vs West Ham where we blew 2-1 lead, we would have finished 4th.

End of Jan, they were 7 points from 5th position and 3 points from 1st.
End of Feb, they were 6 points ahead of 5th position and 6 points from 1st.
End of march, they were not in contention for title, they were just 1 point ahead of 5th position
End of April, they were 5 point ahead of ManUtd but ManUtd had game in hand.

After 37 games, City were on 65 points, ManUtd 63 with game in hand.

At no point City secured top 4 position.

ManUtd were ahead of Liverpool and very close to City when Jose took over and then Jose's magic, we were levels below them.

 

[Bebestation]

Regarding Mourinho, he's claimed every squad he's had in the last ten years was shite at one point or another. He's a broken clock and would have said that even if he was managing one of Fergies teams. Maybe he was right to criticise some of our players, but that doesn't change the fact that he's finished as a top level manager.

This.

 

[fallengt]

He saw problems but he didn't know how to fix it.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Have people really decided that Rashford is trash after a poor season?

He doesn't put in any effort, so yes, he's trash

 

[roonster09]

He saw problems but he didn't know how to fix it.

Every morning in the mirror?

 

[Real Name]

Funny how he's been saying him and Mickhi won the trophies which were the last United won. That's the same player he kept on the bench for about 2 months when he came.

 

[Kostov]

He saw problems but he didn't know how to fix it.

He knew one way, and ultimately it wouldn't have been the right one. He would have made a bloodbath, for maybe just maybe to fluke a significant trophy.

 

[Olecurls99]

Under Ole ? Because when he left he was already getting knocked out from the first round in league cup while stinking in the bed in the league.

Now, since when reaching semi final of cups is considered something worthy to be noted for Man United ? The team he inherited reached 3 finals in the previous 2 seasons, not semi finals.

Yes yes, the new manager should come in and win the quad next season right? We shouldn't base our expectations in reality but in the fact that We're Man United.
I'd be delighted with a couple of semis and 4th place given where we are

 

[Luffy]

Yes yes, the new manager should come in and win the quad next season right? We shouldn't base our expectations in reality but in the fact that We're Man United.
I'd be delighted with a couple of semis and 4th place given where we are

Wonderfully said. My sentiments exactly.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

I'm not talking about it - you brought it up. I'm just pointing out that your perception of our "shitty opponents" in the FA Cup win, is just as applicable - and in my opinion even more applicable - to our EL 2017 route. An Ajax team full of milk teeth is far from being a memorable final win.

I too celebrated the EL win far more than the FA Cup, but that was because it gave us CL. It brought no spectacular moments as far as great games - on the contrary, we finished 2nd in the group, needed 120mins at OT to beat Anderlecht, was about to get knocked out to freaking Celta Vigo and John Guidetti and our team were almost always the oldest one, regardless of who we met. No charm, no excitement.

They even dominated large parts of the game and we barely created anything. Still I remember the win was labelled a "Jose masterclass" by some.

Statistic	Ajax	Manchester United
Goals scored	0	2
Total shots	17	6
Shots on target	3	4
Saves	2	3
Ball possession	67%	33%
Corner kicks	5	2

And anyone who prefers an Europa League win (disregarding the CL spot), a competition we shouldn't even be participating in, over an FA cup win, is insane.

 

[el3mel]

Yes yes, the new manager should come in and win the quad next season right? We shouldn't base our expectations in reality but in the fact that We're Man United.
I'd be delighted with a couple of semis and 4th place given where we are

Well, where we are now is thanks to Ole. The standards were higher when we hired him. We didn't like 2nd place finish or the Micky mouse cups we won. 3 years after Ole managed us and we are now happy with "top 4 and semi finals".

 

[el3mel]

They even dominated large parts of the game and we barely created anything. Still I remember the win was labelled a "Jose masterclass" by some.

Statistic	Ajax	Manchester United
Goals scored	0	2
Total shots	17	6
Shots on target	3	4
Saves	2	3
Ball possession	67%	33%
Corner kicks	5	2

And anyone who prefers an Europa League win (disregarding the CL spot), a competition we shouldn't even be participating in, over an FA cup win, is insane.

This is a post from someone who probably didn't even watch the game and just read some stats on internet. Whoever saw the game knew quite well Manchester United had zero trouble in this game from start to finish.

But who cares about what actually happens on the pitch when I can just bring some stats from internet and use it to evaluate the game pretending I actually watched it.

What did Arsenal achieve by winning these loads of Fa Cup competitions last few years by the way?

 

[roonster09]

Funny how he's been saying him and Mickhi won the trophies which were the last United won. That's the same player he kept on the bench for about 2 months when he came.

Even funny his fans are so desperate to re-write the history.

When everyone around us was busy playing modern game, we were stuck in ancient times playing hoofball, lumping ball and hoping for the best. Not sure why any ManUtd fan loves him but he always had this cult following, like a twitter bots.

The guy takes 0 responsibilities and gives nice soundbites, his fans goes crazy with that. It's weird.

 

[Amir]

He saw problems but he didn't know how to fix it.

He also created some of those problems himself.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

This is a post from someone who probably didn't even watch the game and just read some stats on internet. Whoever saw the game knew quite well Manchester United had zero trouble in this game from start to finish.

But who cares about what actually happens on the pitch when I can just bring some stats from internet and use it to evaluate the game pretending I actually watched it.

What did Arsenal achieve by winning these loads of Fa Cup competitions last few years by the way?

No, it’s not. I saw the game. You could say we were in control in that Ajax didn’t cause us too much trouble in terms of big chances, but we didn’t create much either, and it was by no means a one-sided affair. And Ajax dominated possession, because of Mourinho’s shit cowardly tactics.

What did they achieve? What a strange thing to say. They achieved winning the FA cup..?

 

[Daengophile]

the guy was a goofball and yet he managed to deliver trophies for us..remember those times ? when we used to win stuff? I’d take crap management now if it meant we were competing for silverware

The problem with that is you'd just be kicking the can a bit further down the road while the game moves forwards, the players grow older and the squad deteriorates

 

[mitchmouse]

While I hated his football and his throw the toys out of the pram attitude he didn’t rate Martial either Rashford, called Shaw lazy, overweight and then Pogba was a virus. All seem to be close to true now.

While Jose might of been the wrong choice and threw his toys out of the pram in the 3rd summer transfer window as he didn’t get what he wanted he did prove we chose players over manager and if that happens this summer we are screwed.

Whoever the manager is he needs to be considered the right man and put ahead of players no matter what

he was also right about what we needed that third summer

 

[Deleted 112447]

He had his problems with the club like all our managers since SAF, but he was also part of the problem himself. His "best achievement ever" of finishing 2ed was equaled by a rookie manager, so what does that say about him?

 

[el3mel]

No, it’s not. I saw the game. You could say we were in control in that Ajax didn’t cause us too much trouble in terms of big chances, but we didn’t create much either, and it was by no means a one-sided affair. And Ajax dominated possession, because of Mourinho’s shit cowardly tactics.

What did they achieve? What a strange thing to say. They achieved winning the FA cup..?

Watching the game and spouting that nonsense is ever far worse than not watching it and copying some stats from internet, in fact.

United were leading from the first 20 minutes in the game. We weren't the side in need of attacking or creating chances. It was Ajax. They were the losing side for the majority of the game and created feck all throughout the whole match. United were in no trouble at any point to lose their lead.

One of the easiest European finals I have seen in my life. No, it was a pretty damn one sided affair for Man United and anyone who watched it will agree with that.

Also possession? Ajax can shove that possession up their arse for all I care about. It means nothing when they couldn't master a single good chance the entire 90 minutes to trouble the opposition.

These loads of Fa Cup wins have done nothing to Arsenal and they have been the laughing stock of English football for years. Fa Cup has been a joke competition in general for a long time. No one gave a feck about these cups they were gathering.

European competition ahead of domestic cups any time any day.

 

[OrcaFat]

It’s really weird as now it’s easy to say Jose was right and we should have kept him and let him bring in the players he wanted, BUT at the time it seemed like he was the one who went about things the wrong way and literally looked like he’s throwing players under the bus. Jose was right and finishing 2nd being his best achievement says it all!

There is another dimension to this and that is whether we actually like Jose’s football.

I thought he was probably right about the club and the players etc because I’d take his opinion over Woodward et al every time. Having hired him (which may have been a mistake) the board should have listened to him.

However, I wouldn’t really say I wish we had kept him because I didn’t think he was a good fit in terms of football style. The whole thing was good fun if you adopt a “look back and laugh” attitude.

 

[JPRouve]

I will never get over the boneheaded narrative that he wasn't backed, even if one ignores the hundreds of millions spent on transfers, the club added 100m on the wage bill, that's the biggest commitment that any club can make.

 

[el3mel]

There is another dimension to this and that is whether we actually like Jose’s football.

I thought he was probably right about the club and the players etc because I’d take his opinion over Woodward et al every time. Having hired him (which may have been a mistake) the board should have listened to him.

However, I wouldn’t really say I wish we had kept him because I didn’t think he was a good fit in terms of football style. The whole thing was good fun if you adopt a “look back and laugh” attitude.

I too wouldn't have kept him, despite thinking his 2 full years were quite decent, but things went south by his 3rd season and it was clear there was no coming back from it. He deserved to go 100%. We fecked up his replacement though.

The only thing I'm arguing about the whole thing is those who paint him as the ultimate devil who did nothing right which is just pure ridiculousness.

 

[roonster09]

I will never get over the boneheaded narrative that he wasn't backed, even if one ignores the hundreds of millions spent on transfers, the club added 100m on the wage bill, that's the biggest commitment that any club can make.

Exactly. We broke world record fee to sign player for him, we broke record for fee paid between PL clubs. We also broke wage record to sign Zlatan and then Sanchez.

It's ridiculous that there are few who argue he wasn't backed.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Mourinho’s transfer record at United:

Fred	Shakhtar D.	€59.00m
Diogo Dalot	FC Porto	€22.00m

Romelu Lukaku	Everton	€84.70m
Nemanja Matić	Chelsea	€44.70m
Victor Lindelöf	Benfica	€35.00m
Alexis Sánchez	Arsenal	€34.00m

Paul Pogba	Juventus	€105.00m
Henrikh Mkhitaryan	Bor. Dortmund	€42.00m
Eric Bailly	Villarreal	€38.00m
Zlatan Ibrahimovic	Paris SG	free transfer

The state of that list. And still people defend this man because he won a couple of Mickey Mouse cups. Or claim he wasn’t backed, when he spent more money than Ole. Boggles the mind.

 

[Kostov]

Even funny his fans are so desperate to re-write the history.

When everyone around us was busy playing modern game, we were stuck in ancient times playing hoofball, lumping ball and hoping for the best. Not sure why any ManUtd fan loves him but he always had this cult following, like a twitter bots.

The guy takes 0 responsibilities and gives nice soundbites, his fans goes crazy with that. It's weird.

The funniest thing around the general thinking around Mourinho and United fans like yourself is that you talk about us playing modern game/football, in a time we struggled and still struggle to operate as football club. Players running the dressing room, bankers making decision about recruitment and contracts among other things. And you think playing the modern game was/is our problem? We can hire Klopp tomorrow, but if we still operate like we have been doing for 10 years he will fail.

 

[roonster09]

The funniest thing around the general thinking around Mourinho and United fans like yourself is that you talk about us playing modern game/football, in a time we struggled and still struggle to operate as football club. Players running the dressing room, bankers making decision about recruitment and contracts among other things. And you think playing the modern game was/is our problem? We can hire Klopp tomorrow, but if we still operate like we have been doing for 10 years he will fail.

You hire manager like Jose and backroom staff like Liverpool, they will be a mess. Hire Klopp and keep same team, our team looks competent.

Manager is the biggest difference maker ofcourse with good players. You can't have Titus Bramble and expect him to play as Vidic.

 

[Kostov]

Mourinho’s transfer record at United:

Fred	Shakhtar D.	€59.00m
Diogo Dalot	FC Porto	€22.00m

Romelu Lukaku	Everton	€84.70m
Nemanja Matić	Chelsea	€44.70m
Victor Lindelöf	Benfica	€35.00m
Alexis Sánchez	Arsenal	€34.00m

Paul Pogba	Juventus	€105.00m
Henrikh Mkhitaryan	Bor. Dortmund	€42.00m
Eric Bailly	Villarreal	€38.00m
Zlatan Ibrahimovic	Paris SG	free transfer

The state of that list. And still people defend this man because he won a couple of Mickey Mouse cups. Or claim he wasn’t backed, when he spent more money than Ole. Boggles the mind.

How is the managers fault that some accountant decides it's okey to spend 59m euros for Fred? For instance Spurs bought Hojbjerg for 15m while Mourinho was manager there.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

How is the managers fault that some accountant decides it's okey to spend 59m euros for Fred? For instance Spurs bought Hojbjerg for 15m while Mourinho was manager there.

Mourinho had veto, like all our managers.

But even ignoring Fred that is still a disgraceful list.

 

[roonster09]

How is the managers fault that some accountant decides it's okey to spend 59m euros for Fred? For instance Spurs bought Hojbjerg for 15m while Mourinho was manager there.

Yeah sign player that manager wanted - it's management fault for backing manager by paying fee to land the player.

Don't sign the player as the price is too high - people moan how the manager isn't backed.

 

[RedAlert27]

He saw problems but he didn't know how to fix it.

Exactly. Wasn't a fan of him publically trashing the players, it must've been demoralising for the team as well as the individual. Why couldn't he express his anger with them behind the scenes?

I see similarities with Rangnick. I know the current crop of players are way below standard but he's coming out in the media just pointing out all the teams weaknesses which anyone could do at the moment given how many there are. At least be able to structure and motivate a team OK enough to not get beaten 4-0 by Brighton. I know its mainly the players at this point and their lack of quality/effort but I fail to see what Ralf has even attempted to mend.