So Jose Was Right?

Bebestation said:
Jose was right about a player he himself bought in Pogba.

He was wrong about wanting Maguire.

He was wrong about signing Lukaku.

Mkhitarayan was a waste and instantly sold by him.

Bailly was wrong. Lindelof was wrong.

Doesn't matter if you get a few things right if you get so much crap wrong.
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Sanchez was wrong
Letting Martial not go to his newborn during preseason was wrong
 
432JuanMata said:
While I hated his football and his throw the toys out of the pram attitude he didn’t rate Martial either Rashford, called Shaw lazy, overweight and then Pogba was a virus. All seem to be close to true now.

While Jose might of been the wrong choice and threw his toys out of the pram in the 3rd summer transfer window as he didn’t get what he wanted he did prove we chose players over manager and if that happens this summer we are screwed.

Whoever the manager is he needs to be considered the right man and put ahead of players no matter what
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He was spot on and if he had been backed could have won the league IMO.

His response to not being backed was of course wrong and ridiculous but he knew what he was doing
 
This question has been brought up so many times. The guy wasn't Nostradamus. Most fans could already see the trouble with the players he mentioned; we didn't need him to tell us. Also, it's fairly simple to pinpoint the players who aren't good enough or who may not have the right attitude, but it's another thing entirely to replace them with players who are good enough.

He wanted to replace Luke Shaw with Danny Rose, didn't he? Say no more.
 
justsomebloke said:
Spot on. For my part I was quite honestly as stoked as I could be about that signing at the time. Still, you could also expect management to have a much clearer and well-founded idea of how a certain player would fit into things than you or I or other fans could have, and would appear that whatever ideas they had about that weren't justified.

Going by what we've seen from Pogba, I wouldn't pinpoint mentality issues as the main concern - rather, he seems to be to be fundamentally ill-suited to the Premier League. He struggles with the pace of the game, the pressing, the intensity, the physicality. Probably that could have been less of a factor if he was put in a more optimal role relative to his characteristics than he largely has been at United, but it seems likely to me that his capacity to dominate in the PL was overestimated when he was brought in.
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Considering his huge talent he showed at Juve and the fact he was still pretty young and only 23 years old, the club probably expected him to improve these aspects as he grew older, which makes sense. He wasn't the finished article when we bought him. He had insane potential ahead of him. The problem with Pogba for me is that the guy seems to believe he doesn't need to improve, that he's so good and the finished article already.

Winning the World Cup with France has further increased his feeling that he's good as he's and has no reason to change or improve but it's the team who should be molded to suit the role he wants to play in.

Pogba is a huge wasted potential imo. He had all the tools to become one of the best midfielders in his generation, but he wasted it. Pretty damn shame to be honest. He doesn't sulk, he doesn't have bad attitude, but he just never looked like someone interested in improving or developing his game.
 
matt10000 said:
He was spot on and if he had been backed could have won the league IMO.

His response to not being backed was of course wrong and ridiculous but he knew what he was doing
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No chance, you're then forgetting how good City and Liverpool are and also some of Jose's targets were too. Maguire, Perisic, Dier, Alderweireld and Willian to name a few. We back him and maybe things don't fall apart like they did for that season but ultimately we'd be no better off.

His time at Spurs and Roma I think has demonstrated a manager who is no longer part of the elite.
 
saivet said:
No chance, you're then forgetting how good City and Liverpool are and also some of Jose's targets were too. Maguire, Perisic, Dier, Alderweireld and Willian to name a few. We back him and maybe things don't fall apart like they did for that season but ultimately we'd be no better off.

His time at Spurs and Roma I think has demonstrated a manager who is no longer part of the elite.
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Yeah, the Mourinho revisionism is the worst. He would have saddled us with loads of expensive, high-earning duds. 'Deadwood' doesn't even begin to describe it.
 
saivet said:
No chance, you're then forgetting how good City and Liverpool are and also some of Jose's targets were too. Maguire, Perisic, Dier, Alderweireld and Willian to name a few. We back him and maybe things don't fall apart like they did for that season but ultimately we'd be no better off.

His time at Spurs and Roma I think has demonstrated a manager who is no longer part of the elite.
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Mourinho has done very well at Roma. Surprisingly, he has played very attacking Football and has done especially well with the youth.
 
matt10000 said:
He was spot on and if he had been backed could have won the league IMO.

His response to not being backed was of course wrong and ridiculous but he knew what he was doing
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He was backed and he failed.
 
saivet said:
No chance, you're then forgetting how good City and Liverpool are and also some of Jose's targets were too. Maguire, Perisic, Dier, Alderweireld and Willian to name a few. We back him and maybe things don't fall apart like they did for that season but ultimately we'd be no better off.

His time at Spurs and Roma I think has demonstrated a manager who is no longer part of the elite.
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We would not have kept those players for many years though, they'd have been shifted as soon as their need was over.
 
Siorac said:
Yeah, the Mourinho revisionism is the worst. He would have saddled us with loads of expensive, high-earning duds. 'Deadwood' doesn't even begin to describe it.
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It's hilarious how the narrative changes. When Maguire played well these Jose fans reminded everyone how Jose wasn't backed, he wanted to sign Maguire. Now that Maguire is shit, no one brings that topic anymore.
 
MOU was not backed at the critical moment of trying to show that the manager, talkless of the club is bigger than the player.
There is not a single player out there that has improved post MOU
What gets me the most is the individual performances of most players
You actually can see that they don't really care now
 
TenonTen said:
Mourinho has done very well at Roma. Surprisingly, he has played very attacking Football and has done especially well with the youth.
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From the sounds of things he's done okay but nothing revolutionary. If ETH was at Roma and had the season's he had he wouldn't even be in our thoughts for a next manager.
Relevated said:
We would not have kept those players for many years though, they'd have been shifted as soon as their need was over.
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Big wages and potential fees, most likely with next to no sell on value. Arsenal for example were lucky Willian agreed to rip up his contract.

This club has kept deadwood long enough that I don't think it's realistic to think the club would have moved on swiftly.
 
Relevated said:
Hence if mourinho was backed the board would have sold the players he wants sold whenever he wanted em sold.
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What if they didn't want to leave? Like Danny Rose at Spurs. What if just didn't want them sold? What if the players wanted to go but don't have any clubs willing to pay their high wages?

And finally what about the actual job that manager is supposed to do, getting most out of the squad and managing the squad?
 
el3mel said:
Considering his huge talent he showed at Juve and the fact he was still pretty young and only 23 years old, the club probably expected him to improve these aspects as he grew older, which makes sense. He wasn't the finished article when we bought him. He had insane potential ahead of him. The problem with Pogba for me is that the guy seems to believe he doesn't need to improve, that he's so good and the finished article already.

Winning the World Cup with France has further increased his feeling that he's good as he's and has no reason to change or improve but it's the team who should be molded to suit the role he wants to play in.

Pogba is a huge wasted potential imo. He had all the tools to become one of the best midfielders in his generation, but he wasted it. Pretty damn shame to be honest. He doesn't sulk, he doesn't have bad attitude, but he just never looked like someone interested in improving or developing his game.
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Ive wanted Pogba gone for a long time; Ive never said he was without skill or talent, he has both in bucket loads, enough to have become a really top, top player, and maybe if he had not returned to United he might have become just that. But though he has all the talent in the world, his attitude stinks, his ego is grossly over inflated, his effort on the pitch more often than not pathetic, his work rate often non existant and his decision making highly flawed. Put all that together with his sulks, tantrums and the way he is happy to let his agent bad mouth the club, something he would have us believe is nothing to do with him or how he feels, then you have a player who not only believes his own hype but also believes that he is above any blame what so ever concerning the failings of the team. I'll be very glad to see him leave and I hope he finds a club and manager big enough to keep his ego in check and let him flourish.
 
MattofManchester said:
He was right, but also wrong. He had the right idea, but the wrong approach. Simple as. Should never have been the choice after Van Gaal.

Still the manager to give us the highest points tally post-Fergie though. 81. We've not got close since.
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He’s right about a lot of things in United, I even think he has predicted situations about United’s players mindset really well.
The problem for me is how he manages it, I could say players in 2000s are different from 2010s ( different time and environment). He has used his old methods since his Porto, 2000s Chelsea or Inter in 2010s United’s era, which wasn’t effective due to changing circumstances and environments especially social media. In 2010s until present you can’t use your old methods to be successful in this era, football has changed both physicality and mentality a lot in 2010s. I would say that he is very fit in term of managing professional and discipline players not late 2010s United’s squad which consisted a lot of unprofessional players.

On the other hand, he should have managed players better especially in term of phycological.
 
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Jose is right. But it was going to end up in disaster with anyone and Woodward. Klopp would not have survived with Woodward at the helm.
 
roonster09 said:
What if they didn't want to leave? Like Danny Rose at Spurs. What if just didn't want them sold? What if the players wanted to go but don't have any clubs willing to pay their high wages?

And finally what about the actual job that manager is supposed to do, getting most out of the squad and managing the squad?
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Plus, even if the board listened to him (midseason after a terrible run of form), what would change compared to where we are now? We're getting rid of players right now and are in 6th place, playing boring football. Exact same situation as Mourinho, except with no ETH type manager to come through so we would still be stuck watching Mourinho's dull football.

The situation the Mourinho fans are complaining about right now, literally happened under Mourinho too. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because of these mourinho revisionists.
 
In Rainbows said:
Plus, even if the board listened to him (midseason after a terrible run of form), what would change compared to where we are now? We're getting rid of players right now and are in 6th place, playing boring football. Exact same situation as Mourinho, except with no ETH type manager to come through so we would still be stuck watching Mourinho's dull football.

The situation the Mourinho fans are complaining about right now, literally happened under Mourinho too. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because of these mourinho revisionists.
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If someone never watched ManUtd before 2018 would think Jose was some awesome manager for Manutd and board/players failed him.

There is a reason why none of the big clubs even touched him when he was available, they even went with rookies than hiring Jose.
 
Personally I blame Jose for what happened to Rashford. I often wonder what kind of player he could of been if he had a coach who actually coached attackers during those crucial years of his development. Also Jose bought Pogba.
 
Bebestation said:
Jose was right about a player he himself bought in Pogba.

He was wrong about wanting Maguire.

He was wrong about signing Lukaku.

Mkhitarayan was a waste and instantly sold by him.

Bailly was wrong. Lindelof was wrong.

Doesn't matter if you get a few things right if you get so much crap wrong.
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Bailly looked very promising at first - he became injury prone - not really much you can do about that. I wouldn't attribute any blame there, to be honest.

Mkhitaryan - scored in the Europa League final and was very important to us winning that tournament (not a waste at all - he wasn't even all that expensive in comparison to other players). Funnily enough, he plays all the time at Roma under Mourinho.

Lukaku - He was good in 17/18 - we also recouped the vast majority of the transfer - this signing was nowhere near as bad as people want to make out.

Lindelof - I think he is an alright player. In the end, you might criticise the defender signings but we only conceded 57 goals in the first two league seasons under Mourinho, which is only 9 more than what we have done this season. Are the players that bad or has it been the effect of Solskjaer?

Magurie - Did he really want him? Is there any solid proof? The only solid proof we actually have is he didn't sign him and Solskjaer did. Very questionable blaming here. Are we really going to start blaming managers for every player we have been linked to now?
 
432JuanMata said:
I made it not to praise Jose but to the fact we kept him on in the summer off his last season yet didn’t back him and reports he wanted to sell Martial and Ed blocked it.
If that is to happen say with ETH we are screwed as if we have faith in the manager then we need to 100% back him which we have failed to do
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I'm no fan of Jose and felt really uncomfortable having to support him fully but I have to back our club thru thick and thin.

I don't think we would necessarily have ended up with a physical, brutal team if he'd stayed although I think that would have been a phase we would have gone through.
I couldn't agree with him airing his views to the press about the players, imo that should have been private.
But I have to admit he was right and disruptive players should have been moved on; the board should be supporting the management if they can make a sporting decision on hiring or firing. Just look at how much this would have helped with the pogba scenario.
Regardless of where he is now, he was right on 'heritage'.
We think of a great club and its momentous history however how would an outsider look at it? He was really saying you're only as good as your last trophy which is the sign of a club hungry for success and there's no denying he's been the most successful manager we've had in the decade. The football was ugly though!
 
Big no. If Rashford and Martial werent shunted out to other positions to bring Ibrahimovic in as a striker and progressed in what seemed to be their striking position at the time they would likely be players good enough to start for us right now, considering we're not even in the top 4. Mourinho has been instrumental in stalling those players, as well as the players themselves not being able to adjust. But nobody improved with Mourinho.

Pogba has been good this season, just not great like he should be able to be given his talents. And he's been injured too often just like last season.

The players Mourinho kept picking are the same ones that arent good enough now. The only difference is he had picked out a couple of players to blame it all on and not use them much like Shaw. And now we dont have a toxic environment where every failure is blamed on the players Mourinho has decided to scapegoat. We werent doing well when he was sacked either. So that hasnt changed.

And the Mourinho era signings were worse than the players mentioned above.

How did he do at Spurs and Roma again? 7th for Spurs then sacked and 5th currently with Roma. Nothing to suggest he would have done any better than Ole did and he caused far more trouble off the pitch on top.
 
Vernon Philander said:
This whole "Sanchez was a huge mistake" narrative needs to stop when discussing Mourinho.

There was not a single credible person out there who called it a bad idea to sign a player who had only a few months of bad form and many years of world class performances at that time. Besides, Mourinho even hinted that it wasn't his pick but just one that landed on his lap - whilst the rumours were circulating BEFORE he arrived.
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I remember most thinking he would operate on the right like he did for Barca but we used him on the left and seemed to upset Martial Rashford greatly.
 
Separate the statement itself from the job he did in the first couple of years from the job he did right at very end.

His statement was correct.

The job he did initially was good.

The job he did at the end was crap and he deserved to get sacked.

I fecking hate the way the internet insists on dividing the world into heroes and villains. Jose deserves praise for what he did well, criticism for what he did badly, and respect for the analysis he made of the squad. He was right.
 
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Gordon Godot said:
So £90m and whatever stupid wages he was on, 'worth a shot'. Says it all. Muppets running the club and it seems muppet fans. When do people realise a robust recruitment strategy makes things a lot clearer and reduce such mistakes. Also if you avoid teh Woodward Galactico strategy then you are less likely to have such expensive flops.
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Well said. The delusion runs deep. If he green-lights a signing and it doesn't workout he's partly to blame, regardless of how much of a no brainer it looked at the time. Yes, decisions can be judged in hindsight.
 
Lecland07 said:
Bailly looked very promising at first - he became injury prone - not really much you can do about that. I wouldn't attribute any blame there, to be honest.

Mkhitaryan - scored in the Europa League final and was very important to us winning that tournament (not a waste at all - he wasn't even all that expensive in comparison to other players). Funnily enough, he plays all the time at Roma under Mourinho.

Lukaku - He was good in 17/18 - we also recouped the vast majority of the transfer - this signing was nowhere near as bad as people want to make out.

Lindelof - I think he is an alright player. In the end, you might criticise the defender signings but we only conceded 57 goals in the first two league seasons under Mourinho, which is only 9 more than what we have done this season. Are the players that bad or has it been the effect of Solskjaer?

Magurie - Did he really want him? Is there any solid proof? The only solid proof we actually have is he didn't sign him and Solskjaer did. Very questionable blaming here. Are we really going to start blaming managers for every player we have been linked to now?
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I only remember Jose publicly wanted Persic to be the winger to provide the service/crosses to Lukaku, and the board didn't back him. He was right about shaw, martial and Pogba.
 
Dante said:
Separate the statement itself from the job he did in the first couple of years from the job he did right at very end.

His statement was correct.

The job he did initially was good.

The job he did at the end was crap and he deserved to get sacked.

If fecking hate the way the internet insists on dividing the world into heroes and villains. Jose deserve praise for what he did well, criticism for what he did badly, and respect for the analysis he made of the squad. He was right.
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Ridiculous that some can't comprehend such simple fact.
 
Jose wanted Willian, Dier and Maguire. Would he have won the league or come close with those players?
 
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