Shoudnt be on the pitch at the moment to be fair
Smashley Young
- Thread starter Red Defence
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He's been fecking dreadful. Considering I expected him to be England's best player.
He's not international class.
If he's United class then he is england class. Just not been his tournament
He ha some very good games for united where he showed what he is capable of but has been well below par so far for England
That's terrible logic
Not really. He has played in the Premier League and CL which are both at a level as high as the euro's IMO. He has been poor but not because he is poor
He's definitely international class and is at England's level, he's just had an awful tournament and has been playing poorly for them. Simple as that really.
Pretty much. If he is good enough for United as a squad player he is more than good enough for England.
How can he not be international class? See the list of players who have played a decent number of games for England. There are all kinds.
He's not a great player to be honest. I'd say he's fairly good. Does everything pretty well but isn't really great at anything.
He's not a great player to be honest. I'd say he's fairly good. Does everything pretty well but isn't really great at anything.
At his best he is very good but obviously he isn't playing at that level. We have seen Rooney have terrible England tournaments but you wouldn't question whether he is international class
You're basically saying that because a player plays for us he is automatically good enough for his International team.
Lots of players have played in the PL and CL, does that mean they're good enough?
Well he's international class because this is a piss poor team by England standards. But that's a good summarisation. I always thought he was an odd purchase at that cost, a good squad player and nowt else.
Young's someone who will look good with better players around him but not good enough to raise an average team
He is a great third winger to have in your squad.
Right, so a 'good squad player' then?
Young was quite good for England until Hodgson took over.
Never said he wasn't. Not the point of my argument in any way.
United have much better players than England. Easier to make your mark when your team is dominating. While for England, he has less opportunities, less people in the opposition half to pass or cross to.
What exactly is the point of your argument, he's having a bad tournament so he's rubbish?
Here's an idea, read? Or do you need me to quote what RyanGoggs said because you can't find the post which is just a few scrolls up?
Name one player in our squad who is a regular (say 30+ games last season) who isn't good enough for international football? I'm not talking about guys like Pogba and Fryers who have played once or twice. He is a guy who Fergie deems an integral part of one of the best teams in the world.
Not exactly. Due to the nature of modern game, the player next in line to come in gets to play a lot of games. Basically he is someone I would be ok with getting a long run in United team if one of Nani/Valencia was injured for some time. My only issue is that he is not good enough to make a mark against big teams.
fecking awful. Should not be on the pitch.
Ox would offer more on the left, at least he would take his man on.
Ox would offer more on the left, at least he would take his man on.
Funny, that really does seem to be the gist of what you're saying.
'Integral'?
Hilarious that you add the 30+ games because you know there's quite a few under that bracket who don't get games for this country.
I didn't say Young isn't good enough for England, he's probably good enough for this England because it's a bit shit, but to make the sweeping statement that he's good enough to be an International player purely because he plays for us is daft, especially as, like crappy said, he's surrounded by far superior player at Utd.
Young has made a few very good chances but his general play has just been way below his best. It isn't as if any England player has covered themselves in glory in this tournament, regardless of the result of this extra time.
Sigh. RyanGoggs said a player who plays for us is good enough for his International team, I think that's silly and that's the basis of my argument. I haven't at any point said Young isn't good enough for that England team or that's he's "rubbish". Go away and learn to read.
Ok well name one who is considered first team who isn't international class. Don't say de gea because he is probably good enough just unlucky with competition. If he is surrounded by superior players how come he kept Nani and Valencia out of the team at times? He isn't world class but more than good enough to be an international
Well, saying he's a 'squad player and nothing else' suggests otherwise.
what difference is there between "first-team" and 30+ games a season?
I didn't say he wasn't good enough for England, in fact my first post said I expected him to be their best player. Your statement that being a part of our team means you are somehow automatically granted this divine right to play at International level is just daft.
Does it? It suggests he's a squad player at the worlds biggest club, behind 2 of Europe's best wingers in the pecking order.
Yeah, definitely suggesting he's rubbish.
Isn't that what he did for Villa? It's just been a below par tournament for him. But barring a change in system for England he is the best player available.
what difference is there between "first-team" and 30+ games a season?
I didn't say he wasn't good enough for England, in fact my first post said I expected him to be their best player. Your statement that being a part of our team means you are somehow automatically granted this divine right to play at International level is just daft.
Does it? It suggests he's a squad player at the worlds biggest club, behind 2 of Europe's best wingers in the pecking order.
Yeah, definitely suggesting he's rubbish.
I never said he had the divine right to play for England just that he is good enough. Form should dictate who plays and as I said he is out of form so shouldnt play however I still believe he is "good enough" at this level. I can't imagine Ferguson signing a player AND play them as much as young has if he didn't believe him to be bare minimum international quality
Young was great behind the striker in the warm-up games. Now he's been shoved into what I can only describe as a "defensive winger" role.
It's really not difficult to see why he's struggling. That and the reality that the movement around him is not too dissimilar to a London bus in rush hour traffic.
His crossing's not been too bad but England haven't got much of an aerial threat so it's wasted. Rooney could've scored from a pearl of a cross in the last game, I seem to recall.
Don't get me wrong, he's having a bit of a shocker but how this can be used to conclude he's rubbish or not good enough for international football is beyond me.
It's really not difficult to see why he's struggling. That and the reality that the movement around him is not too dissimilar to a London bus in rush hour traffic.
His crossing's not been too bad but England haven't got much of an aerial threat so it's wasted. Rooney could've scored from a pearl of a cross in the last game, I seem to recall.
Don't get me wrong, he's having a bit of a shocker but how this can be used to conclude he's rubbish or not good enough for international football is beyond me.
But you said he's good enough because he plays for us.
Yeah I'm sure what Fergie thinks when he signs a player is "will he be good enough to play internationally?"
Not because he is good enough to play internationally, more that there is a certain standard needed at international level that a player needs to be at to play for United. A player needs certain quality to play at either level and I would say that level is slightly higher to play for united than England. We just have high standards
We've had lots of players over the years who wouldn't get into most England squads. Young and Welbeck have been very lucky in that this is a poor, poor squad by England standards.
Like who? From say the past 15 years
Alan Smith mayhaps?
I'd disagree. Pretty decent player. No worse than a lot of players who have played for England