Smashley Young

Brwned said:
He's dispossessed quite a lot, joint 4th with Giggs and Anderson behind Rooney, Nani and Welbeck. And apparently he doesn't 'complete' many dribbles - 7 all season compared to Nani's 31. And he takes the third highest shots per game. So yes, he does give the ball away quite a lot. He's a good passer though. More creative than Valencia and more reliable than Nani. He does annoy me a little bit though. He's not as consistent or reliable as Valencia nor as capable of magic as Nani, and he's pretty much got the worst features of both.
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Yeah agree with that summary Brwned, except I still don't think he can be classed as giving the ball away alot. He get's dispossed less than Nani and Rooney, has less shots than Nani and Rooney, and has a better pass success rate than Nani and Rooney. But niether of those would be classed as "wasteful in possession" which is what Brosstan originally said of Young.

Like I say, I think that's one of the only things he has going for him is that he generally doesnt lose the ball. As you pointed out he completes far less dribbles than Nani, which is probably mostly a confidence thing as does seem reluctant to take on his man, certainly when compared to the start of the season I remember him looking to dribble a lot more. I agree he's far less capable of magic than Nani, and probably even Valencia at the moment, given the form of the latter. Also, his crossing has been noticeably woeful this season, especially as Surf says considering the way it was hyped up when he joined.

At the minute he could probably be accused of being wasteful in the sense that he doesnt make the most out of good positions, due to a sloppy cross or a poor shot, for a comparison on his shooting he takes around 50% more shots per game than Hernandez, but Hernandez has triple the number of goals, despite both playing a similar number of games. So he could probably be classed as wasteful in that respect, but in terms of giving the ball away I wouldnt say he was.
 
I actually thought he played some nice, quick football vs Fulham. Even though he's a long way off his best.

Also, I was encouraged to see that he at least tried to take on his man and get to the byline.

He'll come good, just a bit off form and troubled by injuries.
 
He was the back-up if the Nasri deal didn't work out, and so far it's shown. But things change with time as we've seen with many players, here's hoping he'll improve his game.
 
Theon said:
Yeah agree with that summary Brwned, except I still don't think he can be classed as giving the ball away alot. He get's dispossed less than Nani and Rooney, has less shots than Nani and Rooney, and has a better pass success rate than Nani and Rooney. But niether of those would be classed as "wasteful in possession" which is what Brosstan originally said of Young.

Like I say, I think that's one of the only things he has going for him is that he generally doesnt lose the ball. As you pointed out he completes far less dribbles than Nani, which is probably mostly a confidence thing as does seem reluctant to take on his man, certainly when compared to the start of the season I remember him looking to dribble a lot more. I agree he's far less capable of magic than Nani, and probably even Valencia at the moment, given the form of the latter. Also, his crossing has been noticeably woeful this season, especially as Surf says considering the way it was hyped up when he joined.

At the minute he could probably be accused of being wasteful in the sense that he doesnt make the most out of good positions, due to a sloppy cross or a poor shot, for a comparison on his shooting he takes around 50% more shots per game than Hernandez, but Hernandez has triple the number of goals, despite both playing a similar number of games. So he could probably be classed as wasteful in that respect, but in terms of giving the ball away I wouldnt say he was.
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Each to their own but I personally think Rooney and Nani are definitely wasteful. Nani's a lot more forgiveable though, Rooney's just plain sloppy. Wingers generally are wasteful, which is why I like Valencia so much - dispossessed nearly three times less than Nani or Rooney. I think we're being a bit harsh on his crossing, once he gets used to his team-mates more and gets in a bit of form that side of his game could just finally click. I'm more worried about how little he beats a man but I'm hoping for the same thing there.
 
Brwned said:
Each to their own but I personally think Rooney and Nani are definitely wasteful. Nani's a lot more forgiveable though, Rooney's just plain sloppy. Wingers generally are wasteful, which is why I like Valencia so much - dispossessed nearly three times less than Nani or Rooney. I think we're being a bit harsh on his crossing, once he gets used to his team-mates more and gets in a bit of form that side of his game could just finally click. I'm more worried about how little he beats a man but I'm hoping for the same thing there.
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Has someone hacked Brwned's account?
 
reddevilcanada said:
He was the back-up if the Nasri deal didn't work out, and so far it's shown.
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Oh, I'm not having that. It was well known towards the end of last season Young was going to United, even before the whole Nasri talk started. The deal was done before the first reports of a big we were supposed to have made for Nasri.

I'm calm about Young, simply because he hasn't even shown his Aston Villa form for us. Not since his good start, anyway. He's a good footballer, he'll come good. Hopefully he'll have a run of good fitness after this injury. The start-stop nature of his last couple of months obviously didn't help.
 
I don't think anyone ever agreed he was an £18m player (making 100k a week supposedly). Or that he was the solution to any of our problems, or that he was as good as Nani or Valencia. Or that he would be more than a squad player.

When you look at things that way you have to wonder why the feck we bought him instead of a midfielder or full back or whatever.
 
cina said:
I don't think anyone ever agreed he was an £18m player (making 100k a week supposedly). Or that he was the solution to any of our problems, or that he was as good as Nani or Valencia. Or that he would be more than a squad player.

When you look at things that way you have to wonder why the feck we bought him instead of a midfielder or full back or whatever.
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That is how I felt at the time but the early part of the season made me wonder. He did look very good. Not that he closed the gap on Barca, but he did look like he might be first team material, not just a squad player.

But yes, I still feel it was the wrong signing.
 
Young started off very well and then seems to have suffered from injuries and a lack of consistency.

But if he had got the ball last night in the areas Park did, he would definitely have done a lot better.
 
I don't feel it was the "wrong" signing, I think he's a good addition but given the transfer fee and rumours, and our wage issues with nasri, Sneijder etc, you'd really have to wonder. We signed him really early on and it surely must've had an impact on the later part of the window.

By the way, did he really start off THAT well? Our whole team was really good against some piss poor teams at the time so ... meh. And the amazing game he had against Arsenal, he was up against an 18 year old debutant who looked completely out of his depth.

He's British and versatile, 2 of Sir Alex favourite things.
 
Park is on the wane and Giggs has featured a lot on the left wing over the last couple of seasons. I can't see the problem in adding a highly-rated, versatile English left winger to our squad when he became available. Makes sense to me.

I also think the fact we signed Young is completely irrelevant to Fergie's search for a new central midfielder.
 
cina said:
I don't feel it was the "wrong" signing, I think he's a good addition but given the transfer fee and rumours, and our wage issues with nasri, Sneijder etc, you'd really have to wonder. We signed him really early on and it surely must've had an impact on the later part of the window.

By the way, did he really start off THAT well? Our whole team was really good against some piss poor teams at the time so ... meh. And the amazing game he had against Arsenal, he was up against an 18 year old debutant who looked completely out of his depth.

He's British and versatile, 2 of Sir Alex favourite things.
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He saved the 3 points against WBA no? I take your point but he did start well. He is more effective than Park for sure.
 
Perhaps he needs quick-minded, decisive™ midfielders in the lineup and he'll strut his stuff. His link-up play was top notch in the earlier games as well.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Park is on the wane and Giggs has featured a lot on the left wing over the last couple of seasons. I can't see the problem in adding a highly-rated, versatile English left winger to our squad when he became available. Makes sense to me.

I also think the fact we signed Young is completely irrelevant to Fergie's search for a new central midfielder.
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Nothing wrong with adding him to the squad but he was completely overpriced and his supposed wages are ridiculous, probably more than Nani and Valencia combined.

That's a lot of money, I definitely think it had an effect given that the reason we didn't sign a midfielder this summer was because of price and wages.
 
cina said:
Nothing wrong with adding him to the squad but he was completely overpriced and his supposed wages are ridiculous, probably more than Nani and Valencia combined.

That's a lot of money, I definitely think it had an effect given that the reason we didn't sign a midfielder this summer was because of price and wages.
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Got a source for that factoid?
 
cina said:
Nothing wrong with adding him to the squad but he was completely overpriced and his supposed wages are ridiculous, probably more than Nani and Valencia combined.

That's a lot of money, I definitely think it had an effect given that the reason we didn't sign a midfielder this summer was because of price and wages.
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Not possible, mate. Especially since both Nani and Valencia signed new contracts fairly recently.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Got a source for that factoid?
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There are loads.

Manchester United Aston Villa transfer news Ashley Young agrees £130k a week deal United stave off late interest Manchester City - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk

Manchester United Aston Villa transfer news Ashley Young agrees £130k a week deal United stave off late interest Manchester City - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk

Manchester United close to signing Aston Villa winger Ashley Young - Telegraph

He was on 65k at Villa alone.

Assuming it is true, (I'm sure you don't think it is), do I not have a valid point here?

EDIT: I see you're not disputing the £18m transfer fee, bargain?

KM said:
Not possible, mate. Especially since both Nani and Valencia signed new contracts fairly recently.
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I didn't know that, so fair nuff.
 
It really didn't and doesn't make sense to me. He couldn't be classed as a potential replacement for Park because Park is a totally different kind of player; one that plays primarily as a protector of the full back/central midfield in difficult games. Giggs hasn't consistently played out on the left for a few years so I can't see that he is there for that purpose. He can also play behind the striker, but this is the role that Rooney/Berbatov play, so he isn't going to get games there.

The only reason I can see for signing him is as a backup for Nani/Valencia, but it is a hell of a price to pay for a backup/squad player who was never capable of stepping up to more than this. If he was 19 or 20 at his current level I would totally understand it, but he's 26 years old and his game has peaked. I'd much prefer a Mata-like signing, someone who is already a better, more versatile player, with the ability to be a much, much better player. Over a 5 year contract Mata would have been cheaper too.

One of our strangest signings I must say.
 
cina said:
There are loads.

Manchester United Aston Villa transfer news Ashley Young agrees £130k a week deal United stave off late interest Manchester City - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk

Manchester United Aston Villa transfer news Ashley Young agrees £130k a week deal United stave off late interest Manchester City - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk

Manchester United close to signing Aston Villa winger Ashley Young - Telegraph

He was on 65k at Villa alone.

Assuming it is true, (I'm sure you don't think it is), do I not have a valid point here?

EDIT: I see you're not disputing the £18m transfer fee, bargain?
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It was the "more than Nani and Valencia combined" bit I was querying. I see you've backed down on that point.

As for his fee, I've read a range of fees between 15 and 18 million. Bearing in mind the premium paid for English players that seems about right. Not a bargain, mind you. Although you're the first person to mention the word bargain in this thread.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It was the "more than Nani and Valencia combined" bit I was querying. I see you've backed down on that point.
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Actually yeah I never posted the supposed wages themselves, fair enough, I didn't realise either Nani or Valencia signed new contracts, surprising considering I'm such a fanboi of the former.

Do you not think the transfer fee and wages are too high though? Could we not have put them to better use when we were going for Nasri and Sneijder?
 
Yeah denying his obscene wages is kinda pointless as this point. He's clearly on 100k+ considering EVERY source points to that.

But I think it's crazy that he's starting to get a backlash in a period where he hasn't featured of well no real fault of his own. He's done as well, if not far better than any other winger we've signed in the past however many years, I mean he's older and more experienced in the Prem than most of them(Nani, Ronaldo, Park etc)....but it still took Valencia a couple of months of consistent play without being hindered by injuries to fully get that gel factor with Rooney in 09/10.
 
Still not the right time to judge this signing. I was skeptical early on because I wasn't sure he had enough technical ability. And I would have preferred us seeing someone with more of that than him. But since then we've seen two Young's one of whom has been very impressive and surprised me with many aspects to his game that I wasn't' aware of, the other has confirmed my initial worry about the signing. Hopefully he's more the former than the latter over time.
 
Zen said:
Yeah denying his obscene wages is kinda pointless as this point. He's clearly on 100k+ considering EVERY source points to that.

But I think it's crazy that he's starting to get a backlash in a period where he hasn't featured of well no real fault of his own. He's done as well, if not far better than any other winger we've signed in the past however many years, I mean he's older and more experienced in the Prem than most of them(Nani, Ronaldo, Park etc)....but it still took Valencia a couple of months of consistent play without being hindered by injuries to fully get that gel factor with Rooney in 09/10.
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How the hell can you possibly make that statement? he's played at the club for the equivalent of 2 months and he's already 26, much older than when we signed our other wingers.
 
He will come good and prove all you doubters wrong, I'm sure of it. He did very well in his first few games then he got injured and after that he's been useless but many players takes time to get back to their best after injuries.

Very happy with this signing.
 
cina said:
How the hell can you possibly make that statement? he's played at the club for the equivalent of 2 months and he's already 26, much older than when we signed our other wingers.
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I guess you stopped reading there then as I said he's far more experienced.....but to answer that statement part....because I've also seen how Nani, Ronaldo, Park, Obertan, Tosic, Valencia all also did in their first few months?
 
Zen said:
I guess you stopped reading there then as I said he's far more experienced.....but to answer that statement part....because I've also seen how Nani, Ronaldo, Park, Obertan, Tosic, Valencia all also did in their first few months?
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So you're saying he's been better because he's joining us as an older player despite having less time to contribute to our team in the long run?

For the record, Valencia was class in his first season, and everybody thought Nani was brilliant too until his sharp decline as a player in his second season.

If you're saying the fact that he's older and more experienced means he's been a top notch signing and worth all that money (he was more expensive than all of the players listed above apart from maybe Valencia, had a year on his contract, and started on way higher wages.)

I don't think Young is a bad signing, of course he's a good player and probably the best possible winger we could've gotten in the PL, but it's overly frustrating that we did that in such a strong area of the pitch when we really needed to strengthen our team in other areas far more. If Sir Alex bought him as well as a much needed midfielder I would have far less problems with the signing itself.
 
cina said:
So you're saying he's been better because he's joining us as an older player despite having less time to contribute to our team in the long run?
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No...I'm saying he's had a better first few months, or as good as anyone, in a Utd jersey, which he has considering the setbacks he's had.

cina said:
For the record, Valencia was class in his first season, and everybody thought Nani was brilliant too until his sharp decline as a player in his second season.
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Again, I acknowledge after the point you clearly stopped reading. But it still took him time(in which he was consistently starting and he didn't have any injury setbacks unlike Young) to fully gel, especially with Rooney when they started to get them headers consistently in the winter.

He's also only more than Nani depending on who you are listening too....I'd just like to say him, Nani and Valencia were all signed for roughly the same, only Valencias £16m is consistent.
 
Zen said:
No...I'm saying he's had a better first few months, or as good as anyone, in a Utd jersey, which he has considering the setbacks he's had.



Again, I acknowledge after the point you clearly stopped reading. But it still took him time(in which he was consistently starting and he didn't have any injury setbacks unlike Young) to fully gel, especially with Rooney when they started to get them headers consistently in the winter.

He's also only more than Nani depending on who you are listening too....I'd just like to say him, Nani and Valencia were all signed for roughly the same, only Valencias £16m is consistent.
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He had a good first month, but so did everyone of our first 11 at the time, against really poor teams. After the Arsenal match he was either meh or nay.

Nani was £13.5m in the end as I recall.

And even if they were signed for the same, Valencia and Nani are better, younger players.

I don't really get your overall point, are you trying to say his fee and wages aren't too much?
 
No....I said his wages were "obscene" in again...my first post....and my point was quite clearly in that same post that I think it's "crazy that he's starting to get a backlash"...
 
Decent signing when you think about how few injuries we have had on our wingers this season. A few more injuries, and we would be in big trouble in that department as well if we hadnt signed Young.

Its a bit hindsight to say that we should have used the money on him for a midfielder. We might need a midfielder, yes, but we have way more cover for that position than we did on the wings with Obertan leaving. And Young was an improvement on Obertan.

That being said, I dont rate him as more than a squad player, and I think 15+ mill and his supposed wages (although mainly speculation) was over the top for a player of his average caliber.
 
#SAF: "#Young may be a month away, four weeks easily. His bleeding never came out quickly in his injury after the Fulham game."
 
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