Sir Alex - There is no value in the transfer market

SAred

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Lee Martin Scores , Sir Alex legacy begins
Sir Alex once said there is no value in the transfer market. These words certainly ring true this year. United are suppose to be interested in Maguire for 65 million now we really are having a laugh. What upgrade is he over most of our CB's its not like we are signing the next Rio.

And then we are interested in signing the Brazilian Ashley Young for between 50-60 million really for a younger version of our Ashley. Surely it maybe best to stick rather than throw money at transfers that are hardly going to take this great club to the next level.
 
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When was there value in the transfer market?

People have me moaning about transfer prices for decades. SAF's complaints just so happened to come at a time when we were seemingly unable to compete in said market.

We either pay the going rate for our targets or get left behind. Whether the targets are themselves good enough is a separate question. Everyone else is operating in the same market place.
 
SAred said:
Sir Alex once said there is no value in the transfer market. These words certainly ring true this year. United are suppose to be interested in Maguire for 65 million now we really are having a laugh. What upgrade is he over most of our CB's its not like we are signing the next Rio.

And then we are interested in signing the Brazilian Ashley Young for between 50-60 million really for a younger version of our Ashley. Surely it maybe best to stick rather than throw money at transfers that are harder going to take this great club to the next level.
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The market isn't going to change any time soon, not buying because we don't want to spend silly money is daft.

We're already getting left behind and other teams are going to overtake us if we don't do some major strengthening in key areas.

Unless we're sitting on another class of 92', we should be recruiting big time.
 
Yes, what better way to take this great club to the next level than being stubborn and wasting another summer and falling further behind our rivals.
 
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Its not the money I was on about but the quality of players that we are linked with. Really Sandro and Maguire are hardly going to make United world beaters. Surely when getting players in, they at least must be a level up to what we have and Im sorry but Maguire and Sandro are not those players that take United above the likes of City and should I say it Liverpool.
 
There's always value. Sandro is far from the Brazilian Young and at £50m we wouldn't be overpaying.

Maguire we could have bought last summer for a lot less than we paid for Lindelof. I remember posters on here saying at the time it would be a better deal, they were right.
 
SAred said:
Sir Alex once said there is no value in the transfer market. These words certainly ring true this year. United are suppose to be interested in Maguire for 65 million now we really are having a laugh. What upgrade is he over most of our CB's its not like we are signing the next Rio.

And then we are interested in signing the Brazilian Ashley Young for between 50-60 million really for a younger version of our Ashley. Surely it maybe best to stick rather than throw money at transfers that are hardly going to take this great club to the next level.
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How do you know what he will turn out like? I’m sure even SAF didn’t know what level Rio would get to
 
This is what got us in the mess we’re in now. Lack of investment over multiple transfer windows.
 
He was absolutely spot on as well, paying 70-80m for headline players is a ludicrous crap shoot even if you do have the money as a club. Buy them relatively unknown for sensible fee's and make them into a player. It is what he did best, we'll get back to it soon. No doubt about that.
 
SAred said:
Its not the money I was on about but the quality of players that we are linked with. Really Sandro and Maguire are hardly going to make United world beaters. Surely when getting players in, they at least must be a level up to what we have and Im sorry but Maguire and Sandro are not those players that take United above the likes of City and should I say it Liverpool.
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Sandro would be our best RB/LB we've had in many years. You're very much underrating him and I'm not sure why. Also claiming 50m is expensive for a LB of his quality is nonsense.
 
SAred said:
Its not the money I was on about but the quality of players that we are linked with. Really Sandro and Maguire are hardly going to make United world beaters. Surely when getting players in, they at least must be a level up to what we have and Im sorry but Maguire and Sandro are not those players that take United above the likes of City and should I say it Liverpool.
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I remember the exact same sort of thing being said about Michael Carrick when he signed. Countless others too, no doubt. It isn't always easy to predict who will or won't help United to glory.
 
golden_blunder said:
How do you know what he will turn out like? I’m sure even SAF didn’t know what level Rio would get to
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Everyone knew how good Rio was and thats why at the time Air Alex broke the bank to get him. To believe that Maguire is anywhere near Rio is really have a laugh. Everytime I have seen Brazilian Ashley play that is all I see he is far from an big upgrade to Ashley himself give this youngster we just brought a chance rather than wasting it on Sandro.
 
SAred said:
Sir Alex once said there is no value in the transfer market. These words certainly ring true this year. United are suppose to be interested in Maguire for 65 million now we really are having a laugh. What upgrade is he over most of our CB's its not like we are signing the next Rio.

And then we are interested in signing the Brazilian Ashley Young for between 50-60 million really for a younger version of our Ashley. Surely it maybe best to stick rather than throw money at transfers that are hardly going to take this great club to the next level.
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1. Sir Alex said it many times, not just once. And it was as infuriating then as the notion that we shouldn't sign anyone now is today. If he and/or the board didn't have that mentality back then we'd have Hazard and other top players for the years when we were running around with sub-par players, all for a few million extra in agent-fees.

2. Maguire would be an upgrade on Rojo, Jones (anyone would be on availability alone), Blind before he left, and possibly Smalling in any manager who demands some sort of passing from the back.

3. Are you talking about Alex Sandro as if he's the Brazilian Ashley Young? Feck me.
 
SAred said:
Its not the money I was on about but the quality of players that we are linked with. Really Sandro and Maguire are hardly going to make United world beaters. Surely when getting players in, they at least must be a level up to what we have and Im sorry but Maguire and Sandro are not those players that take United above the likes of City and should I say it Liverpool.
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Liverpool?
We are above Liverpool. Think you logged on the wrong forum, this isn't rawk where they deal in imaginary tables.
 
His no value in the market nonsense led to the start of decline in the quality of our squad. Whilst the giant of Europe were battling it out for the very best players, we were busy building a bloated squad of average players. Listen, the man was a genius and I love him, but he let standards drop in his latter years.
 
Ødegaard said:
1. Sir Alex said it many times, not just once. And it was as infuriating then as the notion that we shouldn't sign anyone now is today. If he and/or the board didn't have that mentality back then we'd have Hazard and other top players for the years when we were running around with sub-par players, all for a few million extra in agent-fees.

2. Maguire would be an upgrade on Rojo, Jones (anyone would be on availability alone), Blind before he left, and possibly Smalling in any manager who demands some sort of passing from the back.

3. Are you talking about Alex Sandro as if he's the Brazilian Ashley Young? Feck me.
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Maybe he was a tight Scotsman Sir Alex but he did pretty dam well with out the big money investment but he was not shy to thrown it around when needed on quality like Rio, Keane etc. The money is there for United and this board have no problem throwing it around just who are we throwing it at. Harry and Sandro or god really crap.
 
SAred said:
Lack of investment United have spent more money then just about any other club since GOD retired. Its not investment that was lacking but the players that came in and looks like with the likes of Sandro and Harry this is continuing.
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There was chronic lack of investment in the years prior to SAF leaving though, at least relative to what a club as big as ours needed.

Look at the team we had in '08 and compare it to the side we had in SAF's final year. The marked decline in quality didn't appear out of nowhere.

We have spent a lot since (and often badly) but that's partly because of what we were already lacking.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
His no value in the market nonsense led to the start of decline in the quality of our squad. Whilst the giant of Europe were battling it out for the very best players, we were busy building a bloated squad of average players. Listen, the man was a genius and I love him, but he let standards drop in his latter years.
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He is only an upgrade on Jones because he can't keep himself fit. So lets blow 65 million on an upgrade on one average Argie really.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
His no value in the market nonsense led to the start of decline in the quality of our squad. Whilst the giant of Europe were battling it out for the very best players, we were busy building a bloated squad of average players. Listen, the man was a genius and I love him, but he let standards drop in his latter years.
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This. He was merely covering for the Glazers and the lack of money they were willing to invest. I’m sure if he was offered the opportunity to sign world class players at the time he’d have taken them.
 
sullydnl said:
There was chronic lack of investment in the years prior to SAF leaving though, at least relative to what a club as big as ours needed.

Look at the team we had in '08 and compare it to the side we had in SAF's final year. The marked decline in quality didn't appear out of nowhere.

We have spent a lot since (and often badly) but that's partly because of what we were already lacking.
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You can blame Moyes for that and after that the board has backed both Louis and Jose to the max.
 
SAred said:
Everytime I have seen Brazilian Ashley play that is all I see he is far from an big upgrade to Ashley himself give this youngster we just brought a chance rather than wasting it on Sandro.
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Pass Accuracy
Sandro 17/18: 86%
Sandro 16/17: 84%
Young 17/18: 80%

Chances created per 90m
Sandro 16/17: 1.95
Sandro 17/18: 1.12
Young 17/18: 0.88

Goals scored per 90m
Sandro 17/18: 0.20
Sandro 16/17: 0.12
Young 17/18: 0.08

Tackles won per 90m
Sandro 16/17: 1.67
Sandro 17/18: 1.38
Young 17/18: 0.96

Successful dribbles per 90m
Sandro 17/18: 2.04
Sandro 16/17: 1.91
Young 17/18: 1.08

Headers won per 90m
Sandro 17/18: 1.79
Sandro 16/17: 1.60
Young 17/18: 0.68

It's a mid table level player vs a top level player.
 
SAred said:
Lack of investment United have spent more money then just about any other club since GOD retired. Its not investment that was lacking but the players that came in and looks like with the likes of Sandro and Harry this is continuing.
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I’m referencing safs latter years, where we were penny pinching. One that springs to mind is missing out on hazard to sign kagawa for a few million less!
 
settembrini said:
Maguire we could have bought last summer for a lot less than we paid for Lindelof. I remember posters on here saying at the time it would be a better deal, they were right.
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That's the problem though isn't it, I very much doubt we could have. Maguire might have gone to Leicester for £14m but had we been seriously interested you could have doubled that asking price at least

A couple of things have changed since we regularly used to hoover up the best players in the league every season;

1. 'Smaller' PL clubs are now still amongst the richest clubs in the world and are under no pressure to sell
2. 'Smaller' PL clubs can now pay wages on par with most teams in the world, bar a handful of 'super' clubs

Realistically, we need to drastically improve our Scouting system so that we can be looking at younger UK players and international players. Trying to buy established players from other PL clubs is going to be a no-go
 
SAred said:
You can blame Moyes for that and after that the board has backed both Louis and Jose to the max.
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You can blame Moyes for a lot of things but you can't blame him for the team he inherited.

That squad had a lot of probelms, not least the fact that we hadn't signed a first team midfielder in approximately six years.
 
There's always value in the market if your scouts are good enough

Look back to any of the "no value" Summers and you'll see players who are now brilliant being sold for peanuts.

Lewendowski for £3m, Kante for £5m etc
 
settembrini said:
Pass Accuracy
Sandro 17/18: 86%
Sandro 16/17: 84%
Young 17/18: 80%

Chances created per 90m
Sandro 16/17: 1.95
Sandro 17/18: 1.12
Young 17/18: 0.88

Goals scored per 90m
Sandro 17/18: 0.20
Sandro 16/17: 0.12
Young 17/18: 0.08

Tackles won per 90m
Sandro 16/17: 1.67
Sandro 17/18: 1.38
Young 17/18: 0.96

Successful dribbles per 90m
Sandro 17/18: 2.04
Sandro 16/17: 1.91
Young 17/18: 1.08

Headers won per 90m
Sandro 17/18: 1.79
Sandro 16/17: 1.60
Young 17/18: 0.68

It's a mid table level player vs a top level player.
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Stats he played in lets be honest a far weaker league then our Ashley so his stats will look brighter, but when I watch this bloke in the champions league he is found wanting. He would certainly not get into the City, Real Madrid or Barca teams. He is not going to upgrade United has much has your stats suggest.
 
sullydnl said:
You can blame Moyes for a lot of things but you can't blame him for the team he inherited.

That squad had a lot of probelms, not least the fact that we hadn't signed a first team midfielder in approximately six years.
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You mean the team that just won the league against the greatest team in the universe. It was hardly a bad team that Moyes took over.
 
Judas said:
Yes, what a great way to take this great club to the next level than being stubborn and wasting another summer and falling further behind our rivals.
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Exactly.

United are a money making machine for the owners, the lack of real investment in the team has been criminal

But it's okay because United are the biggest club in the world, what ever the feck that means
 
sullydnl said:
You can blame Moyes for a lot of things but you can't blame him for the team he inherited.

That squad had a lot of probelms, not least the fact that we hadn't signed a first team midfielder in approximately six years.
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Cut he fecking bullshit. That same squad Moyes inherited won the league comfortably and with a few additions in midfield and the wing, it could have easily competed for the title again. That same squad also dominated Real Madrid in the CL. SAF might have or not been to blame for Moyes' appointment, but not for the squad he left him. Any other manager would have managed to get at least top 4 with it. Then Van Gaal came, who was a relative improvement to Moyes, but he still made stupid transfer decisions and didn't know how the team should play, always whining about "the process".

At the end of the day, it's not SAF's fault that those who succeeded him were incompetent morons. He might have been the best manager in the history of the game, but he was definitely no miracle worker. He wouldn't have won the title with that squad if it didn't have the ability.
 
SAred said:
Its not the money I was on about but the quality of players that we are linked with. Really Sandro and Maguire are hardly going to make United world beaters. Surely when getting players in, they at least must be a level up to what we have and Im sorry but Maguire and Sandro are not those players that take United above the likes of City and should I say it Liverpool.
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Thats not what your OP says or the thread title. Why not “quality of players linked with”? Because you’re changing your tune
 
There is value in the market, it's just that to some extent, United among other big clubs didn't adapt well to the larger pool of teams able to capture top prospects or almost finished products. We used to have it easy, we had the best manager, one of the best locker room, facilities and we were able to offer great wage packages which lead to little competition for the best deals. Now, we need to work and plan a long time in advance, make sure that the contractual situation is favorable, that we offer the best options to players in terms of playing time or role.
 
SAred said:
You mean the team that just won the league against the greatest team in the universe. It was hardly a bad team that Moyes took over.
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An aging, declining team on it's last legs managed by literally the greatest manager of all time? Unsurprisingly, it wasn't quite good enough for normal managers to make work, let alone terrible managers like David Moyes.

Like I said, you just have to compare it to our CL winning side to see the decline. In the space of just five years we got to a point where arguably not a single player from the 2013 side would get into the 2008 one.
 
Dumat12 said:
Cut he fecking bullshit. That same squad Moyes inherited won the league comfortably and with a few additions in midfield and the wing, it could have easily competed for the title again. That same squad also dominated Real Madrid in the CL. SAF might have or not been to blame for Moyes' appointment, but not for the squad he left him. Any other manager would have managed to get at least top 4 with it. Then Van Gaal came, who was a relative improvement to Moyes, but he still made stupid transfer decisions and didn't know how the team should play, always whining about "the process".

At the end of the day, it's not SAF's fault that those who succeeded him were incompetent morons. He might have been the best manager in the history of the game, but he was definitely no miracle worker. He wouldn't have won the title with that squad if it didn't have the ability.
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We dominated Real Madrid in the CL?

That's some major revisionism.

We played them extremely well and were the better team until the red card at OT, but dominated them is hyperbole of the highest order.

Though I agree the squad that Moyes was left should have easily got top 4. He came in and destroyed all of SAF's good work in less than a season. It was soul destroying. He was a complete novice.
 
SAred said:
Everyone knew how good Rio was and thats why at the time Air Alex broke the bank to get him. To believe that Maguire is anywhere near Rio is really have a laugh. Everytime I have seen Brazilian Ashley play that is all I see he is far from an big upgrade to Ashley himself give this youngster we just brought a chance rather than wasting it on Sandro.
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I’m talking about how good he may become. SAF did not know that rio would go on to become arguably the best CB to play for us. He was only the best young cb around the PL at the time like Maguire is arguably the best young English cb around the PL now. We don’t know how good he might become with better players and neither do you

And stop calling Sandro, Ashley. It’s childish. What are you, 14?
 
golden_blunder said:
How do you know what he will turn out like? I’m sure even SAF didn’t know what level Rio would get to
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Rio was an obvious superstar in the making when we've bought him. He was inconsistent and error-prone, but his peak level and ability were already evident.

Maguire is nothing like him, he is a good player with decent passing and good aerial game (nothing as dominant as Vidic though)
 
Fergie was unfortunately wrong then (see Hazard, Aguero and co being bought for just £30m).
 
sullydnl said:
An aging, declining team on it's last legs managed by literally the greatest manager of all time? Unsurprisingly, it wasn't quite good enough for normal managers to make work.

Like I said, you just have to compare it to our CL winning side to see the decline. In the space of just five years we got to a point where arguably not a single player from the 2013 side would get into the 2008 one.
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The only one who would was RVP pretty much.

The Premier League was very weak in 2013. SAF was just a magician at winning Premier Leagues.

Give SAF this current team and I think we'd have earned 10+ points more last season.
 
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