Im Hardly changing my tune Harry Maguire and Sandro are hardly value at the prices quoted because of the quality United shall be getting in return. So there is no value in a transfer market. 65 Million for Maguire is not value even in this crazy market. So no need to change the OP.
Sir Alex - There is no value in the transfer market
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Was it Fergie, or the owners' debt preventing us from spending too much?
We'll never know.
You base that conclusion, on two players for two different positions. You realize how ridiculous it is? It's not because we don't target players with high value that they don't exist.
True but there was a severe lack of investment in that period. I seem to remember Stoke having a bigger net spend than us for a couple of seasons.
Either way our lack of pro-activeness in the transfermarkt back then cost us later on, when the prices for those type of players started to explode.
Nothing suggests the prices of players is going to start coming down in the next few years, in fact they will continue to become more expensive. What are we going to do? Never sign anyone again?
I’m not saying Maguire will be anything like him, I’d settle for Bruce or pally levels. I’m saying he’s the best young British cb in the pl and until he’s playing at a top 4 club no one will know how good he can become. Just like none predicted he would be England’s star man at the World Cup. It would be buying potential just like we were doing with Rio who had huge potential but again we didn’t know he’d become the very best
Really I think you been around long enough to know how good Rio was and he was playing at the time for a very good Leeds team that sold him to there biggest rivals. Im not saying Maguire cant become good but he has has much chance has flying to reach Rio's standard. Calling Sandro the Brazilian Ashley is hardly being childish its just the way I see this player he is has good has our Ashley and people complain about Ashley so what upgrade are we actually getting for cough cough 50 million plus.
Yeah the way we handled that 2009 window still bugs me.
We didn't use Real's interest in Ronaldo to try to get Robben or Sneijder. Imagine if we had gotten both. We might have won another CL and definitely won another Premier League.
It was just so odd. We get 80 mil for Ronaldo back then and we only brought in Valencia as a 1st XI player. Like
We completely botched that window.
This isn't a good metric, you have to take into account the fact that our team didn't had a lot of room. Clubs below use were always wheeling and dealing because on paper they had a lot of room for improvement. Just look at Real Madrid or Bayern in the last years, their net spendings weren't high.
You can't say to me that the CBs we have at the team already are not in the Bruce / Pally category so why spend 65 million for what we already have. To go up a level we need to buy from the very top, so that is why I say there is no value in today's transfer market stick to what we have rather than spend on Harry and Sandro the Brazilian Ashley
In general I agree with you but the Maguire situation was different. Hull were relegated and could no longer rely on PL cash. Maguire had only 1 year left on his contract and made it clear publicly that he wanted to stay in the premier league and would not be renewing. It was the perfect time to buy him and the fee would only have been large if there had been a bidding war between two clubs of equal attractiveness to the player. Unfortunately we chose to pay 2x as much for Lindelof and will now have to pay a large fee if we want to rectify that mistake. That Maguire is now being used as an example of 'no value' is a classic case of fans letting United management off the hook for their mistakes. Maguire represented huge value last summer, this summer he will cost the market rate.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/12/harry-maguire-unlikely-stay-hull-city-relegated/
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We also had a lot of room for improvement. It's been a decade since our team could be compared to Real Madrid or Bayern.
Looking back now it's easy to say there was a lot of value in that market, but I don't think Sir Alex really thought there wasn't, I just don't think he was given a proper budget to take advantage.
Which LB was better than Young in the league last year?
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Think he did. Otherwise he wouldn't have splashed the record sum for a then 'flashy sod' who would drift in and out of focus. We'd scouted him for years. I like Maguire and wouldn't question his signing but Ferdinand had all the tools to become a true great.
with thorough and detailed scouting you can still get value
when you target top established talent, many of whom are important to their clubs you won't get value
its not difficult to grasp and its clear we are more pre-occpied with buying talent rather than developing it
when you target top established talent, many of whom are important to their clubs you won't get value
its not difficult to grasp and its clear we are more pre-occpied with buying talent rather than developing it
Leeds got into the semi finals of the CL with Rio in the team. I seem to remember Rio nearly made the WC or Euro Championship squad at 18/19. He was inconsistent at West Ham, but stepped up another level at Leeds to the extent that he was (almost) guaranteed to be a great player - Utd were not buying potential they were buying an already fantastic player. He absoubtly stood out a mile.
I think Maguire is a very good player and would be an improvement on what we have, but Rio was a great player in a time players like Adams, Terry, Carvalho, Vidic, Campbell played and was better than all of them. Every single one of the players I’ve mentioned below would be the best CB in the league today.
If Rio was around today, and available he would easily be the first £100m defender.
Check Sir Alex transfers he splashed out when needed and splashed well.
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Spot on, Harry is a good but not great defender and hardly worth splashing out when we already have 4 good and 1 not so good defender on our books. WTF is Jose up to.
Utd claiming there is no value in the transfer market is like a rich man saying there's no value in a Ferrari showroom, while his equally, or less wealthy neighbours are snapping up posh cars all around him.
Other teams are out there getting proper football business done while Utd are lamenting transfer fees, dragging their feet, Woodward choses Wimbledon over the World Cup Final and the most reluctant Utd manager in history is already spouting excuses and acting like a spoiled child.
Man Utd Business Club, the rest is consequential these days.
Other teams are out there getting proper football business done while Utd are lamenting transfer fees, dragging their feet, Woodward choses Wimbledon over the World Cup Final and the most reluctant Utd manager in history is already spouting excuses and acting like a spoiled child.
Man Utd Business Club, the rest is consequential these days.
You mean the City team with Delph/Zinchenko at left back or some other one?
I think we agree on the broader point but on the specific example of Maguire - are we really sure that this represents a missed opportunity. I mean, how many of us on here watched his performances for Leicester last year and thought 'that's a world class centre half?'
Maguire is flavour of the month at the moment but playing for Utd is different. Playing for Leicester is much easier. The likes of Smalling and Jones sometimes go weeks at a time in imperious form and make half an error that contributes to a goal and are absolutely panned for it.
The start of our downfall could be traced to that saying. SAF went Wenger-mode and wouldn't pay the rate for quality players or agent fees. It was pointless to oppose the market inflation. Did he expect that the inflation would just disappear and market prices would return to his idea of normal?
I’ve always believed that Sir Alex said that as a way of covering for the Glazer family so the fans didn’t get on their back over lack of investment, Sir Alex had broken the British transfer fee multiple times during his reign so the idea he wouldn’t spend big money simply based on lack of value has never washed with me.
In regards to Maguire and Sandro though both are big upgrades on what we currently have especially Sandro who is one of the top 5 left backs in the world, we currently have a 33 year old ex winger who would be 4th choice at the club in his natural position and a 23 year old who the manger doesn’t trust and struggles to stay fit.
I’d happily let Jones, Rojo and Lindelof all follow Blind and Darmian our the door and then bring in Maguire and Sandro as those are two specific roles that we struggle in and seriously need upgrading.
In regards to Maguire and Sandro though both are big upgrades on what we currently have especially Sandro who is one of the top 5 left backs in the world, we currently have a 33 year old ex winger who would be 4th choice at the club in his natural position and a 23 year old who the manger doesn’t trust and struggles to stay fit.
I’d happily let Jones, Rojo and Lindelof all follow Blind and Darmian our the door and then bring in Maguire and Sandro as those are two specific roles that we struggle in and seriously need upgrading.
They only played there because Mendy was injured and Delph did well and got into the England WC squad.
What the feck this has to do with anything?
Well said.
And that's where the "there is no value in the market" ends. The problem is that some clubs aren't willing to properly scout players and identify the tools in less hyped players, they instead focus on flashy names. Reading you post I can see where you are coming from but you really need to fix that OP and the catch phrase. There is a difference between saying that there is limited value in Maguire and Sandro from United's POV and there is no value in the market.
And Sandro would've played ahead of them. It's not a given that Mendy is better at all, I'd think that more fans will disagree with that opinion — especially after losing an entire year.
Lets see if the strongest part of JM teams the defense improves greatly with this 2 no value transfers in, if they do Ill be shocked and that for the cool sum of 120 million. Really Sir Alex was right No value in improving the team with these 2 signings.
Am I mistaking who you're talking about OP, or are you really calling Alex Sandro the Brazillian Ashley Young?
I can't speak for other people but yes I was very impressed with Maguire last year for Leicester and again for England at the WC. He's very much in that Adams/Terry/Vidic mould of warrior CB that numerous strong PL teams have built their defence around. Plus he's also good on the ball, good fitness record, shows a good attitude in interviews etc.
Smalling I defend all the time on here and I agree he gets way too much criticism. Jones I have less time for, he makes bad blunders too frequently, misses half of every season with various injuries and hasn't scored a goal for us in over four years. Honestly I think he's overrated and would sell asap.
Am I mistaking who you're talking about OP, or are you really calling Alex Sandro the Brazillian Ashley Young?
Cringing so hard at OP writing "GOD" in all caps when referring to Sir Alex and consistently calling Sandro the Brazilian Young
I'm pretty confident Maguire and Sandro would be huge improvements to our starting 11. If our scouts can't identify some amazing lesser known players to do the job then we need to invest in guys like this, no point in harping about value like we're fecking shareholders, Jose needs to be allowed to sign his men and get them all playing or he can get out. Next 3 weeks are so crucial for us, if it means overspending a bit to fix some of the holes in the team then we better do it.
If Sandro is the Brazilian Ashley Young then should we also call Philip Neville the English Denis Irwin?
In hindsight, there was value in the market back then. Madrid got Ronaldo for £80m for a start - what a bargain! We should have done everything to keep him and paid even more to buy Messi!
Spot on. "The no value in the market" comment should not at all be associated with the purported richest club in the world. It should come from impecunious lower clubs.
How come other teams(who are not as rich) find this value and keep winning titles? Ridiculous claim.
So you see Young being one of the best left backs in the world? I like Young but come on, Sandro was probably the 2nd best left back in the world behind Marcelo for a few years. Young has never reached that level and Sandro is nothing like Young as a player. Silly comparison.
Agree with this! How are our scouts and our scouting network this bad?
Why didn't we bid for KDB? Coutinho? Mane? Kante?
These are obvious stars that went for relatively peanuts that we had no part in.
Who the heck have our scouts been watching?
We used to find relatively unknowns and make them superstars. Now we find superstars and make them relatively unknowns. There are plenty of values in the market, we're just shopping at the wrong end, almost too snobby for our own good
The Ronaldo transfer was a steal. Real probably made the best transfer ever, despite breaking the world record. Prices has only gone one way, so in hindsight there has always been great value in the market. Nobody knows, if there's a bubble waiting to burst, but I don't see any signs, that it's about to stop any time soon.
The only way is up.