Sir Alex - There is no value in the transfer market

"Save now, pay later"

The transfer market isn't likely to deflate.

That's not to say we should be stupid with our money and throw away 50m on a 30 y.o. or something.
 
SAred said:
Sir Alex once said there is no value in the transfer market. These words certainly ring true this year. United are suppose to be interested in Maguire for 65 million now we really are having a laugh. What upgrade is he over most of our CB's its not like we are signing the next Rio.

And then we are interested in signing the Brazilian Ashley Young for between 50-60 million really for a younger version of our Ashley. Surely it maybe best to stick rather than throw money at transfers that are hardly going to take this great club to the next level.
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The players you have mentioned have a value today.
If we try and buy the same players next season, they'll probably be 10% more expensive.
Prices are going higher and higher, year on year.
Liverpool have understood this and realise that if necessary, they can buy a player today for £x (which may seem inflated) and then sell him 2 years down the line for more.

Skills said:
Fergie was unfortunately wrong then (see Hazard, Aguero and co being bought for just £30m).
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At the time though, £30M was seen as a lot of money.
Just like £60M is seen as a lot of money, today.
I remember speaking to a mate of mine back in 1995 when Shearer broke the World Record Transfer fee (£15M). He said nobody is worth that much.
Well, 20 years later and we bought just bought Dalot, a player who virtually not first team experience, for more than that!
 
That no value for money rubbish after selling ronaldo for 80 million, give a past their sell by date owen the number 7 shirt, while valencia was our most expensive signing that summer was a complete joke. If fergie had this mentality he should have really used our youth set up, he did not, not only was fergie not buying anyone of quality in the transfer market, but there was no plans in place to elevate new players from the youth set up, this mixture was always going to see the bubble burst sooner or later. This mixed with moyes, VG, Jose Mourinho now along with woodward and the glazers now, has left the club in a comical mess. Its even worse Pogba and martial are linked away from the club. The no value for money rubbish is why we still have valencia, young, jones, smalling, darmian, fellaini, lingard, mata still at this club. I just don't think club has evolved, the transfer stragedy of the club is outdated by 10 years, when a club still has not evolved its transfer policy, we have a problem perisic is a prime example
 
Why was everyone mad at Rooney in 2010 again? Since you guys complain about our transfer policy in that era in almost every thread.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Why was everyone mad at Rooney in 2010 again? Since you guys complain about our transfer policy in that era in almost every thread.
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Some people agreed with Rooney at the time. Trouble is we don't know if it was an honest complaint. This club was asleep at the wheel while other top clubs were hoovering quality talent.
 
You want value? You buy 19 year olds and hope they reach their potential... otherwise there is no such thing in today's market.
 
VanHaal'sRedArmy said:
You want value? You buy 19 year olds and hope they reach their potential... otherwise there is no such thing in today's market.
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You create the structure that allows them to reach their potential.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Your right, he should have flown to Russia, spent the day there and then flown back rather than spend a couple of hours at Wimbledon - which is in the city where he lives and works!

If only he’d gone to the final, the club might have signed Mbappe by now...

This is a joke of a post. You realise sponsors pay for players wages, and Jose is not going to come out and tell the world what’s happening behind the scenes. That’s the sort of thing Spurs did when they allowed Willian to get away from them.
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My point is he's not a football man, he wasn't even watching the world cup final.

José isn't coming out and saying what's going on behind the scenes but he could offer some hope to the fans, other than his draining negativity. He's had 5 transfer windows and he still relies on Fergie's back 5 more often than not... Now that's value in the market!
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Why was everyone mad at Rooney in 2010 again? Since you guys complain about our transfer policy in that era in almost every thread.
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For me personally, because it was never about transfer policy, but only money and he was open for a move to City.

Although, I did forget it over the years.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Why have you omitted RVP, DDG & Hernandez though?
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To be fair I was overlooking the successful players to make the point the majority of transfer were of poor quality after the Ronaldo transfer.

The three you mention were a success but our hit rate hugely decreased.
 
Alex Sandro was in the top three LBs in previous years imo. Last season i dont think he was any better than Young, despite the stats. Hard to know why he is not playing so well recently. But it could very well be his level now.

In the other hand its also true that Alex Sandro was really excelent in the champions league 2016/17, so i dont think his good stats are result of playing in Serie A.
 
It's been said many times, and I'm not even sure it's relevant to this thread, but 2009 must go down as one of the all-time worst transfer market performances. To sell Cristiano for that much money, and bring in Valencia (a good player but nowhere near a replacement for CR7,) Michael Owen, Obertan and Diouf just beggared belief (compare with Juve selling Zidane and bringing in Nedved, Thuram and Buffon.) For me, this is one of very few blotches on Fergie's CV, and it really had a knock-on effect that was felt even after he left.

For any American Football fans, it's up there with Cowboys' draft performances post-Jimmy Johnson. 1995 was a particular horror show.
 
jem said:
It's been said many times, and I'm not even sure it's relevant to this thread, but 2009 must go down as one of the all-time worst transfer market performances. To sell Cristiano for that much money, and bring in Valencia (a good player but nowhere near a replacement for CR7,) Michael Owen, Obertan and Diouf just beggared belief (compare with Juve selling Zidane and bringing in Nedved, Thuram and Buffon.) For me, this is one of very few blotches on Fergie's CV, and it really had a knock-on effect that was felt even after he left.

For any American Football fans, it's up there with Cowboys' draft performances post-Jimmy Johnson. 1995 was a particular horror show.
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We were never going to find a replacement for Cristiano who was on the same level. And Valencia was a fantastic signing overall he was first a devastating winger but, has now turned into a dependable RB and now our captain.
 
At Alex was just wrong when he said this:
We shouldn’t have been looking for value we should have been looking for world class players to come straight into the team

He did it all his career pallister, keane, Rio, Rudd, Rooney, RVp

There was players out there who could have improved us at the time - maybe a modric even if spurs bummed us for 50m


As how that relates to today’s market it doesn’t really. The market today’s just not making any sense to anyone at all. I hate it. It disgusts me frankly.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
We were never going to find a replacement for Cristiano who was on the same level. And Valencia was a fantastic signing overall he was first a devastating winger but, has now turned into a dependable RB and now our captain.
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This. Not Valencia's fault that we didn't address other issues back then.
 
bucky said:
This. Not Valencia's fault that we didn't address other issues back then.
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Who’s blaming Valencia? I was saying that signing him was nowhere near enough, particularly with how much we got for Cristiano.
 
jem said:
Who’s blaming Valencia? I was saying that signing him was nowhere near enough, particularly with how much we got for Cristiano.
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Recently there have been quite a few posts by other people making the same point including Valencia about post-Ronaldo-United (not specifically aimed at you). I just find it completely unnecessary to include Valencia in criticising our transfer strategy from 2009 onward. Valencia was a successful signing and he's been an excellent servant to this club.
 
bucky said:
This. Not Valencia's fault that we didn't address other issues back then.
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Yeah at the time he wasn't a bad player and not a big outlay. There also wasn't anyone comparable to Ronaldo to replace him with.
However at one stage we had Young and Valencia as wingers and then a year later City upped the ante by signing Navas and Silva, even though Silva has now moved infield like Giggsy. I think the stats are there that since about 2010 we are behind Man City by about 300m in gross transfer spending.
It doesn't help that most of the players we signed under LVG and Moyes are a waste of time and money. Although we bemoan players like Jones and Smalling, weren't they 18m and 8m respectively? Not that bad for players who can/would serve for many years. They're not good enough for a starting place now, its clear we need to invest. Whilst we had Ferdinand and Vidic, we did have them backed up by Brown and O'Shea. In comparison, we paid 27m for Fellaini and 45m for Mata. Neither have a resale value and neither good enough to be any more than a bit part squad player. Waste of Money.
I don't know where our scouting system has gone in recent years. We seem to not sign the right prospects, sign players to fit a system rather than players who are quality. Look at players like Hazard, does it matter who manages Chelsea? They've had a merry go round and he's been quality for all the managers, had one poor season when they sacked Mourinho but improved second half. A lot of City's and Liverpool's players will be quality no matter who they play for.
We signed a load of mediocre crap to fit LVG'S system, and his whole philosophy of the system being more important than the players, suppose thats why Blind and scheiderlin and co looked decent in a certain light.
We have to be honest and admit we are streets behind in playing personnel, our squad is bloated with players good enough to be squad players and not good enough to be starting for us week in week out, and personally I dont see us winning the league in the next few seasons, thats why I believe we should be looking for players like Sessengnon and Tierney and Malcom who are prospects who can hopefully come good and be top Man Utd players for years to come. Planning for 5 years time.
Instead I see us linked with 60m moves for an approaching his sell by date Willian and a Chelsea CB who can't get in their first 11 any more. Was never really a fan of the Sanchez signing, I feel like since January he has been stealing a place from Lingard, Rashford and Martial.
I see a lot of stuff about signing Bale etc but I don't think thats the answer, I remember Real Madrids failed Galaticos project.
 
I think Sir Alex genuinely believed there was no value (as opposed to covering up for greedy owners). He'd frequently splashed the cash in the period between Glazers' takeover and Ronaldo's departure. Until the latter, the world transfer fee record had not been broken since 2001 (this after the record had been broken at least once per year from, I think, 1996). As for the English fee record, after we paid £27/28 million for Veron in 2001, it had been broken a couple of times subsequently, but the fees were all close to the 30 million mark. So a lot people presumed that transfer fees have stagnated, and that £30 million could get you a world class player.

So when Real Madrid bought Kaka and Ronaldo, it's forgivable to presume they were doing a Zidane, after which most major transfers would still cap at 30 million, eventually if not initially (since clubs knew we had money). Should the club have foreseen that the deals would set off an exponential inflation in the market (perhaps an exaggeration given the role of TV revenues) and took advantage at the time? I guess that depends on if you think people who invest big in Bitcoins are shrewd or stupid.

Personally, I can understand the decision to not reinvest the Ronaldo money immediately, or even next season. It was at a time when every other club was holding us to ransom, and emerging world class talents in weak positions (central midfielders, obviously) were rare. But we did not change our approach after three/four seasons, by which time we must have known that this is the new reality. Had we thrown £60 million at a big European club then, and asked for their best midfielder, who knows what might have stuck. To place it in context, £60 million is less than the combined sum we would later go on to spend on Kagawa, Powell and Mata - who arguably all play in the same position - over a period of one and a half seasons.

I'm not someone who wants to see our club buy world class players every time a position opens up. I'd like to see the majority of our players either promoted through the youth teams or bought when they are still developing. But every once in a while, we have to accept that the team has a weak area, in which we do not have a youngster ready to step up, and can't identify the "next big thing", and be willing to ignore value and burn serious cash. We've had to do this at least three times in the last four seasons (Di Maria, Pogba and Lukaku), which is way too often for my liking, but I have come to accept it as the price we must pay for past inaction (as well as an inconsistent scouting philosophy), rather than the club's long term ideology.
 
There is always value in the transfer market. You just need to scout well and be willing to wait.

Not having a director of football and refusing to identify a footballing identity for the club b continues toil bite the club in the ass.

Where’s the legacy planning?

Hazard 32, De Bruyne 7, Courtois 7, Salah 11, Lukaku 18.

Take Meunier, who went for 7 to PSG. Even last summer when PSG was asking for 36/38 for him he was still great value.

You can’t always wait for a player to come good because you’ll be buying high with a fair amount of risk of buying at peak value.
 
iKeano said:
My point is he's not a football man, he wasn't even watching the world cup final.

José isn't coming out and saying what's going on behind the scenes but he could offer some hope to the fans, other than his draining negativity. He's had 5 transfer windows and he still relies on Fergie's back 5 more often than not... Now that's value in the market!
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That’s the managers though.

He’s bought:

. 2 x right backs - Darmian and Dalot
. 2 x left backs - Blind and Shaw
. 3 x centre backs - Rojo, Bailly and Lindelof
. 2 x back up keepers - Romero and Grant

Now ignoring the keepers, Woodward has overseen the signing of 7 defenders at about £150m. Ultimately he’s absoubtly backed the last two managers, the success or failure of those players is down to the manager. We are not Chelsea, the managers decide who comes and go. Woodward facilitated the signings, he doesn’t need to be watching the WC final. Bobby Charlton was also at the Wimbledon Men’s Final...
 
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Devil81 said:
To be fair I was overlooking the successful players to make the point the majority of transfer were of poor quality after the Ronaldo transfer.

The three you mention were a success but our hit rate hugely decreased.
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To be fair, you also omitted Alexander "The Great" Buttner :lol:

I get your point though, and it's a valid one.
 
Devil81 said:
To be fair I was overlooking the successful players to make the point the majority of transfer were of poor quality after the Ronaldo transfer.

The three you mention were a success but our hit rate hugely decreased.
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Sadly the trend has continued even after Ferguson left. Our transfer success rate must be very low. It's common for us to sign a player only to describe them as deadwood a year or two later.
 
Even if Sir Alex left Moyes the Barcelona and Madrid squad combined together, I'd still have my reservations if Moyes could have gotten them to top 4, let alone challenge for the title. SAF left Moyes with everything he wanted - a large transfer budget and players that just came back from winning the league comfortably. I don't understand why that is so hard to get for so many people. Should SAF have ran the club for Moyes while Moyes just talked in the press conferences as a formal manager or something? I don't get it.

All Moyes need to do, was spend the money, which he absolutely did have considering he spent 40 million on Mata, 30 million on Fellaini and was chasing targets such as Bale and Fabregas, wisely. Nothing more. He could have brought a world class winger, a world class midfielder and CB with 30 million more and we would have comfortably challenged for the title, if not outright won it. But the problem is, Moyes was a shit manager either way. He wouldn't have won the title with Ronaldo and Messi in the same team.

Then you have Van Gaal, who was an improvement as I said in my previous post, but he continued the trend that Moyes set in buying deadwood and having the team play in no coherent style apart from having the ball, I guess. His signings through the two seasons he spent here were a waste of money for the most part.

And now we have a manager whose been a drastic improvement, but still not enough. Again, no sense of style and the transfers, considering the money we have spent, have mostly been mediocre (apart from a few exceptions of course)

Any good manager who inherited that squad - Klopp, Guardiola, Simeone, Ancelotti evenwould have added great additions to the squad, reformed our style of play to fit theirs and got us back to challenging for the title. But no, it's SAF's fault that he didn't hold Moyes' hands like a baby.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
That’s the managers though.

He’s bought:

. 2 x right backs - Darmian and Dalot
. 2 x left backs - Blind and Shaw
. 3 x centre backs - Rojo, Bailly and Lindelof
. 2 x back up keepers - Romero and Grant

Now ignoring the keepers, Woodward has overseen the signing of 7 defenders at about £150m. Ultimately he’s absoubtly backed the last two managers, the success or failure of those players is down to the manager. We are not Chelsea, the managers decide who comes and go. Woodward facilitated the signings, he doesn’t need to be watching the WC final. Bobby Charlton was also at the Wimbledon Men’s Final...
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This is exactly it. The players being identified are simply not good enough.

Again this comes down to the managers and our scouting system. The scouts seem to do nothing. Identify players in lower leagues that barely make the reserves, identifying youngsters who struggle when sent out on loan and identify galatico players that don’t live up to the price tag. This has been our transfer policy for too long now.

Most fans on here are saying we need full backs and RW. Some are saying we need a top class CB. If fans can see this why can’t one of the best managers in world?

This transfer window feel worse than the Moyes summer so far. And that’s down to Liverpool identifying their weaknesses and signing good, young players to fit those gaps. When the bookies had them as second favourites I was laughing as I believed they need to do a lot of work in the transfer window. They have and we haven’t reacted.

It’s like we are happy with 3rd, 4th because that’s the level we will be with this squad.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
His no value in the market nonsense led to the start of decline in the quality of our squad. Whilst the giant of Europe were battling it out for the very best players, we were busy building a bloated squad of average players. Listen, the man was a genius and I love him, but he let standards drop in his latter years.
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This.

We were clearly constrained by the debt back then.

Failing to invest over that long period is why we are still struggling today.
 
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