Sir Alex, David Gill and Bryan Robson have been brought in to advise Richard Arnold on a wide range of club matters

crossy1686 said:
Why would we refer to SAF for his opinion on things that aren't relevant to him? Surely he's there with Murtough and Gill to offer his opinion on running the club at the senior management level, such as "would it be a good idea to break our wage structure and offer Martial a £250k a week contract?", "Do you think it's wise to retain players on big contracts to increase their value?" etc.

Not "So what do you think of this Ten Hag bloke? Too many square passes? Should we bin him?"
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Even if the plan is not to use his opinions about football at all, it's inevitable that they will be talking about the team, so there could be some effect.

And frankly, I'm not even sure the questions you've asked about contracts and wage structure are the sort he should be answering anyway. He's a football man.
 
I think David Gill's inputs will be more valuable than Fergie's at this stage of United's re-set. He will provide the long-term strategy inputs that were seriously lacking with Woodward.
He's been at FIFA for key roles and oversaw some of the club's most successful period. The Big Picture man.
 
Honestly, people look for any reason to have a meltdown. This really is such a non-story and people are reading far too much into it.

We have so much knowledge from the last 40 years available to us. Some of it is relevant, some of it isn’t relevant. But casting it aside because “just move on bruv” is as stupid as saying “here’s the keys Fergie”.

Ever since Fergie left, his success and way of doing things has cast a huge shadow over the club putting pressure on everyone. Embracing it and using it as a resource might actually be the way to finally step out of it.
 
rpitroda said:
Honestly, people look for any reason to have a meltdown. This really is such a non-story and people are reading far too much into it.

We have so much knowledge from the last 40 years available to us. Some of it is relevant, some of it isn’t relevant. But casting it aside because “just move on bruv” is as stupid as saying “here’s the keys Fergie”.

Ever since Fergie left, his success and way of doing things has cast a huge shadow over the club putting pressure on everyone. Embracing it and using it as a resource might actually be the way to finally step out of it.
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Ultimately Fergie wont be involved in the daily, tactical side of the football operations. Fergie and Gill will have their inputs on the strategic and long term stuff -- bringing some concise direction and clarity to our future as a club. Less reactionary and not swing from one end of the spectrum to the other.
 
We'd have to be stupid not leveraging the experience of two of the finest minds in football administration while already being associated with the club.
 
I bet this "Sir Alex" has never played a game of fifa in his life. How can he understand modern football?
 
Waynne said:
Can we not just fecking move on from the past? Its like a massive fecking anchor on this club ever since we tasted dominance more than a decade ago.
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Yeah let's let these proper football men like Woodward fulfill their vision instead of bringing on Fergie disciples like Mourinho and LVG or Fergie darlings like Pogba back to the club, or letting Fergie favorite Wazza Rooney stay way past his expiration date, It's not like we were successful in the past or anything.
 
David Gill & Sir Alex have been the pillars for UTD’s success for more than 25 years. They have built UTD as a global brand & have been pioneers in marketing UTD globally.
Their partnership had seen UTD become the richest & most popular club in the world with success off the field & on field. If anyone knows what it takes to bring the club back to the top it’s them two. Many fans here won’t like it or won’t be in favour but this is a very good move & it’s a welcome change for this new management under Richard Arnold. We are certainly going in the right direction & long may it continue. One step at a time
 
horsechoker said:
I bet this "Sir Alex" has never played a game of fifa in his life. How can he understand modern football?
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Things Sir Alex is at fault for:

Rejecting Thiago
Signing di Maria
Signing Sanchez
Keeping Rooney for way too long
Signing Pogba
Signing lukaku
Signing Jose
Signing Maguire
Telling Klopp he wanted Utd to be an adult Disneyland
Extending mid table players with massive wages for resale value


Dude doesn't even have a fecking TikTok. Ew.
 
RVN1991 said:
Things Sir Alex is at fault for:

Rejecting Thiago
Signing di Maria
Signing Sanchez
Keeping Rooney for way too long
Signing Pogba
Signing lukaku
Signing Jose
Signing Maguire
Telling Klopp he wanted Utd to be an adult Disneyland
Extending mid table players with massive wages for resale value


Dude doesn't even have a fecking TikTok. Ew.
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This Fergie bloke sounds like a liability
 
Azhar88 said:
Look we are never going to agree on this. Like so many Utd. fans you will never hear a bad word about Sir Alex Ferguson and I'm guessing you are an older supporter who enjoyed the glorious period, when he was the king. But what about the younger fans who are following the club now, a club that is becoming quite frankly a joke?

He didn't resign when the Americans came, no, but who bites the hand that feeds you? He never will criticise the Glazers, yet sadly, in the long run, his tacit support for the American owners risks tarnishing his brilliant past, especially in the eyes of the new generation, who only know of it from Youtube and Sky repeats. Just look at the thread on Sir Alex's biggest mistakes if you don't believe me, lots of anger over there about the disputed ownership of a certain racehorse. Read Roy Keane's autobiography, its all in there.

But at the end of the day, you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. The thing is, 6-7 years ago when I first found the 'red cafe' my viewpoint was very much in the minority, but nowadays I think it is yourself and people like you who are out of step and living in the past. After all the trouble of getting ETH in, all the angst over Ole and Ralf Rangnick, to formally involve the 80 year old former Manager along with his 65 year old former Captain in the football club is just totally bonkers.

How can United ever move forward, if they keep looking back all the time?
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First of all, Fergie isn't responsible for the recent failures of the club, so let's just move on from that.

Second thing you need to realize, is that the majority of club owners are terrible, and as a manager you never choose who owns the club. Fergie gave his all during his time an we owe him everything. If ETH made us successful under the Glazers, are you going to blame him for not standing up for them?

And about the living in the past bit, dude are you 5?
 
Someone said:
First of all, Fergie isn't responsible for the recent failures of the club, so let's just move on from that.

Second thing you need to realize, is that the majority of club owners are terrible, and as a manager you never choose who owns the club. Fergie gave his all during his time an we owe him everything. If ETH made us successful under the Glazers, are you going to blame him for not standing up for them?

And about the living in the past bit, dude are you 5?
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I'm actually 55 so I can remember right back to Dave Sexton's time and I respectfully disagree with you - see bold writing. Last season I believe would have been better (top-4 at least) if Christiano Ronaldo hadn't come to the club and his choice to return was heavily influenced by Sir Alex. Ronaldo coming back messed up OGS's project and Sir Alex is partly responsible for that. I know he scored plenty of goals and dragged us back into games especially in the CL group stages, but without him we may have been better overall, because he doesn't press (and the modern game is all about pressing) & he isn't as fast as he was. But worst of all he is a devisive trouble-maker behind the scenes and has caused all sorts of problems within the dressing room. Football is a team game, but Ronaldo has got to the stage where its him plus ten other people and that isn't good. I watched Ronaldo's first pre-season game for United with my ex-wife beside me (heavily pregnant at the time) in summer 2003. In a few weeks that baby starts at University! To think the same player can still be as effective as he was then, in the fastest league in the world! after that amount of time, is just delusional, but as with so many things at United, fans cling on to the past, because the present and probably the future are so bleak.

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just upset with the whole bloody thing.
 
Azhar88 said:
I'm actually 55 so I can remember right back to Dave Sexton's time and I respectfully disagree with you - see bold writing. Last season I believe would have been better (top-4 at least) if Christiano Ronaldo hadn't come to the club and his choice to return was heavily influenced by Sir Alex. Ronaldo coming back messed up OGS's project and Sir Alex is partly responsible for that. I know he scored plenty of goals and dragged us back into games especially in the CL group stages, but without him we may have been better overall, because he doesn't press (and the modern game is all about pressing) & he isn't as fast as he was. But worst of all he is a devisive trouble-maker behind the scenes and has caused all sorts of problems within the dressing room. Football is a team game, but Ronaldo has got to the stage where its him plus ten other people and that isn't good. I watched Ronaldo's first pre-season game for United with my ex-wife beside me (heavily pregnant at the time) in summer 2003. In a few weeks that baby starts at University! To think the same player can still be as effective as he was then, in the fastest league in the world! after that amount of time, is just delusional, but as with so many things at United, fans cling on to the past, because the present and probably the future are so bleak.

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just upset with the whole bloody thing.
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You overestimate Fergie's influence on Ronaldo's return. Fergie had no influence on the football side of things during the Ole era at all. If Ole made the decision to sign Ronaldo that's on him, not fergie. He was probably asked to convince Ronaldo not to join City, but we don't really know what happened, and also if that's all we can find to blame Fergie for then we're clutching at straws here.

United suffered post fergie because we no longer had football people around the club. Woody's entire era was him calling the shots on everything, and because we lacked a clear direction we ended up collapsing. If Arnold wants to finally listen to some football legends around the club, then good for him, it's where you start, but long term nobody expects Fergie or Gill to actually have a big part in anything.

So I'll respectfully disagree with you, but honestly you're overthinking this way way too much.
 
charlenefan said:
As long as they're not getting involved with things on the pitch then it shouldn't cross with what ETH is doing
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I read that their input is to be used to help create better relationships with the supporters and in the development of the club; they will have nothing to do with ETH and the playing side. I imagine SAF will work with supporter groups and Gill in the financial aspects of the club.
 
Someone said:
You overestimate Fergie's influence on Ronaldo's return. Fergie had no influence on the football side of things during the Ole era at all. If Ole made the decision to sign Ronaldo that's on him, not fergie. He was probably asked to convince Ronaldo not to join City, but we don't really know what happened, and also if that's all we can find to blame Fergie for then we're clutching at straws here.

United suffered post fergie because we no longer had football people around the club. Woody's entire era was him calling the shots on everything, and because we lacked a clear direction we ended up collapsing. If Arnold wants to finally listen to some football legends around the club, then good for him, it's where you start, but long term nobody expects Fergie or Gill to actually have a big part in anything.

So I'll respectfully disagree with you, but honestly you're overthinking this way way too much.
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Azhar88 should think himself lucky he doesnt remember Sextons time as manager!
 
Sky1981 said:
Mixed feeling

Fergie is old. He should be left alone from this mamoth task. I have no doubt about his knowledge and his love for the club but he's what? 80?

You can't be involved half heartedly to the club you loved... He'll exert his thought and before long he'll be micromanaging alot of stuff.

And how does ETH feels when his vision doesnt align with SAF?

I'd pick SAF anytime of the day but he's not getting any younger and his way are effective when it's run by him and him alone. You cant expect ETH to buy his old fashion way of pride for the shirt and man management without being SAF.
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"It is understood the three men will advise Arnold on a wide range of issues which include the redevelopment of Old Trafford and Carrington, and the club’s relationship with its fans." #mufc #mujournal No mention of working with ETH or the playing side there. United has been a divided club, both in support and playing staff, SAF is a figure head all can rally around and David Gill will provide sound financial sense regarding transfers etc after the woeful Woodwards useless attempts in these fields.
 
I’m not sure why people think SAF is going to be making or executing any decisions regarding the management team.

Why do people always presume the worst situation possible about everything?
 
redmanx said:
"It is understood the three men will advise Arnold on a wide range of issues which include the redevelopment of Old Trafford and Carrington, and the club’s relationship with its fans." #mufc #mujournal No mention of working with ETH or the playing side there. United has been a divided club, both in support and playing staff, SAF is a figure head all can rally around and David Gill will provide sound financial sense regarding transfers etc after the woeful Woodwards useless attempts in these fields.
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Most if not all of his post retirement advice are very wrong.

Moyes, ole.
 
Sky1981 said:
Most if not all of his post retirement advice are very wrong.

Moyes, ole.
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He never appointed Ole. United were looking for an interim manager that could bring a good feeling back to the club following Mourinho's reign. Ole impressed and convinced Woodward to give him the job permanently. SAF has had no power at the club for nearly 10 years. It was Woodward's show.
 
Red Dreams said:
Idiotic to blame Fergie.
It is the job of a board to appoint consultants if they do not have the expertise.
Not go to the former manager.

But then we have parasites for a board whose only goal was to bleed the club.
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Who better to consult?
 
Pragmatically.

What are the question we would like Fergie to answer?

Who should we sign?

Which manager we should hire?

How to deal with Ronaldo?

Should we give Martial more time?

Should we sign FDJ? Or someone else?

What if his views differs from ETH. Who do Arnold side with?

What if SAF vetoed ETH decision because he rejects to pay 10M for FDJ wage out of principle?

I'd side with Fergie if he's the manager. But you can't expect the new manager to just ditch his views and adopt SAF views. That's not how ETH works. Unless the man himself is managing things that worked out well with him might not work with the new manager.

We have practically SAF trained, mentored, and coached for decades and fails to replicate even 30% of his managerial ability. Let alone giving a few pointer here and there.

Gill may have some use because he's a veteran negotiators and perhaps knew the hook and crany in getting a player. I dont mind having him and Arnold a money man himself would open to his input.

But SAF.... His way or the highway. There's no half and half. You have to believe 100% in his process or it'll not be productive.

But then again.. who am I to judge. Let's just wait and see
 
crossy1686 said:
I’m not sure why people think SAF is going to be making or executing any decisions regarding the management team.

Why do people always presume the worst situation possible about everything?
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Because they want to.
 
Sky1981 said:
Pragmatically.

What are the question we would like Fergie to answer?

Who should we sign?

Which manager we should hire?

How to deal with Ronaldo?

Should we give Martial more time?

Should we sign FDJ? Or someone else?

What if his views differs from ETH. Who do Arnold side with?

What if SAF vetoed ETH decision because he rejects to pay 10M for FDJ wage out of principle?

I'd side with Fergie if he's the manager. But you can't expect the new manager to just ditch his views and adopt SAF views. That's not how ETH works. Unless the man himself is managing things that worked out well with him might not work with the new manager.

We have practically SAF trained, mentored, and coached for decades and fails to replicate even 30% of his managerial ability. Let alone giving a few pointer here and there.

Gill may have some use because he's a veteran negotiators and perhaps knew the hook and crany in getting a player. I dont mind having him and Arnold a money man himself would open to his input.

But SAF.... His way or the highway. There's no half and half. You have to believe 100% in his process or it'll not be productive.

But then again.. who am I to judge. Let's just wait and see
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Nowhere does it say that SAF will be having any input into the playing staff or playing style or that he will be working with ETH. Of course, this may all be lies and SAF is in fact about to undertake a coup de tat....but I very much doubt it. His brief has nothing to do with tactics etc just moral, mainly of the supporters. As you say, lets wait and see.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Who better to consult?
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The problem is that Ferguson himself knows the importance of moving on allowing new management complete autonomy. He spoke about the years after Busby and I distinctly remember reading his own thoughts about it in one of his books.

It makes things difficult when an all time great manager is in the background. You need a clean split.

Ferguson already exerted some influence with the Moyes decision and the Ronaldo playing situation last year. Some of his suggestions have not been without flaw. I'm not sure being the greatest manager ever means you're the greatest general manager.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
The problem is that Ferguson himself knows the importance of moving on allowing new management complete autonomy. He spoke about the years after Busby and I distinctly remember reading his own thoughts about it in one of his books.

It makes things difficult when an all time great manager is in the background. You need a clean split.

Ferguson already exerted some influence with the Moyes decision and the Ronaldo playing situation last year. Some of his suggestions have not been without flaw. I'm not sure being the greatest manager ever means you're the greatest general manager.
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His new role is to consult on development of Old Trafford and relationship with the fans. People are overreacting.
 
David Gill back with his squeaky tight wallet. Guess the Glazer will be happy. Gill saved them loads in the transfer maket back in the day. Probably helped with the start of our demise. 2009 onwards.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
The problem is that Ferguson himself knows the importance of moving on allowing new management complete autonomy. He spoke about the years after Busby and I distinctly remember reading his own thoughts about it in one of his books.

It makes things difficult when an all time great manager is in the background. You need a clean split.

Ferguson already exerted some influence with the Moyes decision and the Ronaldo playing situation last year. Some of his suggestions have not been without flaw. I'm not sure being the greatest manager ever means you're the greatest general manager.
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This in a nutshell.

Trequarista10 said:
His new role is to consult on development of Old Trafford and relationship with the fans. People are overreacting.
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Ok, I keep reading about this 'relationship with the fans', meeting supporters groups etc. What happens if at the first of those 'meetings' a supporter says this: "Sir Alex, we are not happy about the ownership of the club - can you help us do something about that?" I predict a very short meeting indeed, because Sir Alex, to the best of my knowledge, has never openly criticised the Glazers and why would he, because he has not done badly from their involvement with the Club, especially whilst in (semi)retirement.
 
Azhar88 said:
This in a nutshell.

Ok, I keep reading about this 'relationship with the fans', meeting supporters groups etc. What happens if at the first of those 'meetings' a supporter says this: "Sir Alex, we are not happy about the ownership of the club - can you help us do something about that?" I predict a very short meeting indeed, because Sir Alex, to the best of my knowledge, has never openly criticised the Glazers and why would he, because he has not done badly from their involvement with the Club, especially whilst in (semi)retirement.
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What does that have to do with the choice to consult him? And where has it been said that his consultancy duties would involve SAF fronting questions about the ownership of the club at supporters meetings?? He's a consultant not a spokesperson.
 
Trequarista10 said:
What does that have to do with the choice to consult him? And where has it been said that his consultancy duties would involve SAF fronting questions about the ownership of the club at supporters meetings?? He's a consultant not a spokesperson.
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I was only reacting to what I read from redmanx:

redmanx said:
I read that their input is to be used to help create better relationships with the supporters and in the development of the club; they will have nothing to do with ETH and the playing side. I imagine SAF will work with supporter groups and Gill in the financial aspects of the club.
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To create better relations with supporters groups would, one assumes, involve meeting with them, would it not?

If Ferguson/Gill/Robson are not getting involved with ETH and the playing side of things and they are not working with supporters, what the heck are they going to be doing then? SAFs a 'consultant' you say, well we had one of those - he was called Ralf Rangnick and although he had a torrid time as interim manager he had more recent experience of the modern pressing game than these old club heroes. Furthermore, Rangnick seemed to be trying to bring some much needed discipline to the dressing room too, which we all should acknowledge. Ironically, this is what Fergie had to do with Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson back in 1986!

I suppose the accountants may have pointed out that binning RR (especially after he called for significant investment in new players) and replacing him with a club associate director already on the payroll (plus his ex-captain marvel), might save the club a few quid. Shame the accountants didn't tell Sir Alex to keep away from transfer matters (Ronaldo) one year ago however, that would have saved considerably more!

This thread is turning into so many others on here - you get some people believing this and others believing that and both parties will never change. Ronaldo for United forever some people cry, he is the King after all, he said so himself! Meanwhile other people say he is a tad arrogant and not quite the player he was ten years ago. Even more divisive and long running is this one: "SAF made United to what it is today and there never should be a bad word said about him". But the trouble is, look at where Manchester United is, today....
 
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Azhar88 said:
I was only reacting to what I read from redmanx:
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Fair. I don't think SAF would put himself in the firing line of supporters group meetings and I would hope the club wouldn't dare ask him to! The suits in charge get the big bucks, they're the ones who make the decisions, they need to face up and deal with things themselves.
 
Azhar88 said:
I was only reacting to what I read from redmanx:



To create better relations with supporters groups would, one assumes, involve meeting with them, would it not?

If Ferguson/Gill/Robson are not getting involved with ETH and the playing side of things and they are not working with supporters, what the heck are they going to be doing then? SAFs a 'consultant' you say, well we had one of those - he was called Ralf Rangnick and although he had a torrid time as interim manager he had more recent experience of the modern pressing game than these old club heroes. Furthermore, Rangnick seemed to be trying to bring some much needed discipline to the dressing room too, which we all should acknowledge. Ironically, this is what Fergie had to do with Norman Whiteside, Paul McGrath and Bryan Robson back in 1986!

I suppose the accountants may have pointed out that binning RR (especially after he called for significant investment in new players) and replacing him with a club associate director already on the payroll (plus his ex-captain marvel), might save the club a few quid. Shame the accountants didn't tell Sir Alex to keep away from transfer matters (Ronaldo) one year ago however, that would have saved considerably more!

This thread is turning into so many others on here - you get some people believing this and others believing that and both parties will never change. Ronaldo for United forever some people cry, he is the King after all, he said so himself! Meanwhile other people say he is a tad arrogant and not quite the player he was ten years ago. Even more divisive and long running is this one: "SAF made United to what it is today....." and there never should be a bad word said about him. But the trouble is, look at where Utd is today!
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Did he? I never saw any of that myself.

The idea of this think tank being actively involved with supporters is a bit daft. The idea with this kind of role is usually that they have an awareness due to the time they spent with said fan base of what they want, so are there to advise the current incumbent as to how things are likely to play out. Making sure the optics are in keeping with “Manchester United Values”, it’s largely a load of fluff, but having input of folk who were involved with a successful regime isn’t a bad thing unless their words hold too much power, as of right now we’ve no way of knowing.

Let’s be honest here as well, this sounds like exactly the kind of thing Ralf was to be doing. Chances are he was just another person that would be in this think tank, not that he’d have been on his own. Ralf however never managed to enamour himself to the fans, or the players, or well anyone so when he got a full time job elsewhere it made more sense to just let him go.
 
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