Sir Alex, David Gill and Bryan Robson have been brought in to advise Richard Arnold on a wide range of club matters

Sandikan said:
Because the 5 or 6 first choices weren't available
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Well, yeah - partly.

There were non-football reasons why Fergie decided to retire when he did (as in, he had to - it wasn't 100% planned) - and to some extent, yes, there was obviously an element of availability involved.

But Fergie did fancy Moyes - he clearly rated him highly as an up-and-coming manager.

There are several similarities between Moyes and someone like - say - O' Neill.

And neither of those makes any sense as a successor to Alex Ferguson for Manchester United - they simply weren't anywhere near his level, and that should have been obvious to him. But it wasn't. Again - his genius as a manager simply didn't translate to being a genius successor picker (to coin a clumsy term).
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well, yeah - partly.

There were non-football reasons why Fergie decided to retire when he did (as in, he had to - it wasn't 100% planned) - and to some extent, yes, there was obviously an element of availability involved.

But Fergie did fancy Moyes - he clearly rated him highly as an up-and-coming manager.

There are several similarities between Moyes and someone like - say - O' Neill.

And neither of those makes any sense as a successor to Alex Ferguson for Manchester United - they simply weren't anywhere near his level, and that should have been obvious to him. But it wasn't. Again - his genius as a manager simply didn't translate to being a genius successor picker (to coin a clumsy term).
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Martin O Neill was a legendary manager at my boys Wycombe, so i'll always be biased here.
But he achieved more. Just as many top 6 finishes as Moyes, and actually won a trophy, with Leicester for goodness sake. Narrow defeat in another final too.

Took Celtic to a bunch of pots when Rangers were the dominant outfit, and even a European final too, which say what you like about 2 horse races in Scotland, very few have done that.

O Neill was smart. He may have found the job the huge step up Moyes did, but he would have done a lot better than Moyes.
I genuinely don't think any pro manager could have done worse than Moyes did here. 7th place with the previous champions?! Under his own average Everton team.
Just a horrible time.
 
Blood Mage said:
Well for starters this transfer window has been a disgrace. The club have reacted with genuine surprise that Ronaldo wants to leave when they should've seen it coming and planned for it. Rangnick was brought in to carry out a long-term role in restructuring the club and was binned off for saying that we needed to spend big on new players.
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basically some stuff you’ve dreamed up in your head
 
phelans shorts said:
I think you would be very surprised. In fact, Dalglish was on the board before he became manager, and has been on the board since leaving as manager.

So a nice example you picked there. Really showed me.
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Dalglish being on the board is no different to fergie but it doesn't automatically mean Dalglish is having to help someone in an equivalent role that Arnold is in.
 
It worded as a think tank, so Murtough probably wants to get their guidance on which characters are needed for the dressing room or something.

Gill undoubtedly would be there for sound transfer advice.
 
Sandikan said:
Martin O Neill was a legendary manager at my boys Wycombe, so i'll always be biased here.
But he achieved more. Just as many top 6 finishes as Moyes, and actually won a trophy, with Leicester for goodness sake. Narrow defeat in another final too.

Took Celtic to a bunch of pots when Rangers were the dominant outfit, and even a European final too, which say what you like about 2 horse races in Scotland, very few have done that.

O Neill was smart. He may have found the job the huge step up Moyes did, but he would have done a lot better than Moyes.
I genuinely don't think any pro manager could have done worse than Moyes did here. 7th place with the previous champions?! Under his own average Everton team.
Just a horrible time.
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I actually rate O' Neill - don't get me wrong.

(My description above looks more harsh than intended.)

But he was a rich man's Moyes at best - which is good, very good in fact, in the grand scheme of things. Because contrary to what some people think, Moyes himself is not a bad manager at all.

But the point is that it just isn't enough - I mean, obviously not: there's a ceiling there.

Fergie was a genius (best ever, in my opinion - he's just that, overall) managing an absolute monster of a football club, objectively speaking. O' Neill? No. He didn't have that in him - at all. And there wasn't really anything there to suggest that he did - was there?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I actually rate O' Neill - don't get me wrong.

(My description above looks more harsh than intended.)

But he was a rich man's Moyes at best - which is good, very good in fact, in the grand scheme of things. Because contrary to what some people think, Moyes himself is not a bad manager at all.

But the point is that it just isn't enough - I mean, obviously not: there's a ceiling there.

Fergie was a genius (best ever, in my opinion - he's just that, overall) managing an absolute monster of a football club, objectively speaking. O' Neill? No. He didn't have that in him - at all. And there wasn't really anything there to suggest that he did - was there?
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Would have been interesting to see what he's make of it.
But he had a good enough career to be more than satisfied, starting with minnows, taking Wycombe into the footy league for the first time, success at Leicester and Celtic, relative success at Villa - despite what revisionists reckon now.
A few bumps too, although Sunderland is a club everyone fails at fairly quickly :)
 
Sandikan said:
Martin O Neill was a legendary manager at my boys Wycombe, so i'll always be biased here.
But he achieved more. Just as many top 6 finishes as Moyes, and actually won a trophy, with Leicester for goodness sake. Narrow defeat in another final too.

Took Celtic to a bunch of pots when Rangers were the dominant outfit, and even a European final too, which say what you like about 2 horse races in Scotland, very few have done that.

O Neill was smart. He may have found the job the huge step up Moyes did, but he would have done a lot better than Moyes.
I genuinely don't think any pro manager could have done worse than Moyes did here. 7th place with the previous champions?! Under his own average Everton team.
Just a horrible time.
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O'Neill was a very good manager in his day. Did really well at Villa too. He had a better career than Moyes imo.
 
Havent a clue what to make of this but if its true I would have concerns.

1. Fergie is 80. There a a good reason we all retire around 15 years earlier. Joe Biden anyone?

2. David Gill is still in his 60s so hopefully he could add value given his previous record. Been away a long time though.

3. If Robbo could have been any value, we would have employed him years ago in a meaningful role. Cannot see any logic to this one.
 
Sandikan said:
Would have been interesting to see what he's make of it.
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Back then (when Fergie initially considered retiring), O' Neill was on the up - so, yeah, it would have been interesting.

But - again - no.

But - and this is of course the actual...point:

1) You don't let someone like Fergie choose his successor in the first place. That's just a very stupid idea, period.

2) Nobody could have replaced him anyway.

It was always evident that what United needed to do was NOT to "replace" Fergie but rather transition into a completely different model/structure.

Under Ed we utterly failed to do that.

Let's hope Arnold represents a page being - genuinely - turned. However, you can forgive people for being somewhat...apprehensive given how the club has operated for years now.
 
No wonder we've become interested in Sesko in recent days, SAF always had an eye for centre forwards!
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Rayman96 said:
Havent a clue what to make of this but if its true I would have concerns.

1. Fergie is 80. There a a good reason we all retire around 15 years earlier. Joe Biden anyone?

2. David Gill is still in his 60s so hopefully he could add value given his previous record. Been away a long time though.

3. If Robbo could have been any value, we would have employed him years ago in a meaningful role. Cannot see any logic to this one.
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1) Jesus Christ I wish I could be retired at 65, I’ll probably have to be about 90 to have a chance.

2) he’s still been in and around football.

3) because the past regime was oh so competent and made completely correct decisions.
 
MDFC Manager said:
@devilish will be all over this.
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The appointment of David Gill would make sense. Arnold is relatively new in the job and having someone who was previously successful in his role and under similar circumstances makes sense.

SAF is a bit of a meah appointment. There's no doubt that SAF is the best manager the club had ever had and hopefully he wouldn't try to micromanage ETH. However even then we're talking about an 80 year old man with serious health issues whose been out of football for almost a decade. SAF and Busby had shown that there's a huge difference between being an advisor and a top manager.

Robson's appointment is the most weird of the three. The guy was never a good manager or coach and had been out of serious football since 2008 when he was sacked from Sheffield United so unless United need an ambassador then Robson shouldn't be anywhere near the club

Honestly the writing was pretty much on the wall and that we're simply regularising things up. I very much doubt that Ole would have been hired as manager, Fletcher would have enjoyed the quick rise to his role and Phelan would have been retained despite the manager not wanting him otherwise.
 
devilish said:
The appointment of David Gill would make sense. Arnold is relatively new in the job and having someone who was previously successful in his role and under similar circumstances makes sense.

SAF is a bit of a meah appointment. There's no doubt that SAF is the best manager the club had ever had and hopefully he wouldn't try to micromanage ETH. However even then we're talking about an 80 year old man with serious health issues whose been out of football for almost a decade. SAF and Busby had shown that there's a huge difference between being an advisor and a top manager.

Robson's appointment is the most weird of the three. The guy was never a good manager or coach and had been out of serious football since 2008 when he was sacked from Sheffield United so unless United need an ambassador then Robson shouldn't be anywhere near the club

Honestly the writing was pretty much on the wall and that we're simply regularising things up. I very much doubt that Ole would have been hired as manager, Fletcher would have enjoyed the quick rise to his role and Phelan would have been retained despite the manager not wanting him otherwise.
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What are your feelings on Fletcher being promoted?
 
Rayman96 said:
Havent a clue what to make of this but if its true I would have concerns.

1. Fergie is 80. There a a good reason we all retire around 15 years earlier. Joe Biden anyone?

2. David Gill is still in his 60s so hopefully he could add value given his previous record. Been away a long time though.

3. If Robbo could have been any value, we would have employed him years ago in a meaningful role. Cannot see any logic to this one.
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Didnt know you're of no use after 65. Saying that, if Gill is pass his 60s he's of no use too.
 
Anyone moaning about this needs to have a word. It’s a consultation role - He’s not taking training.

We all moaned when Fergie and Gill left Mad Ed with free reign in 2013, now when his successor wants to have their input we’re accused of being nostalgia fc.
 
Hansi Fick said:
No you weren't. What's embarrassing is to concoct nonsense like this and then throw a hissy fit if reality doesn't
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There was a definite belief( rightly or wrongly) that we were going to evolve and Rangnick was going to be instrumental behind the scenes in overseeing things like he did at Salzburg and Leipzig, at least at first( his role was never really well defined in reality).
By March it became obvious Rangnick was not wanted and it was only a matter of time before he was out the gap. Even after that we were peddled more lies when there was a statement saying he would be kept on before the whole Austria job came up and he eventually went.

The thought of Ferguson having more say at a board level as he gets older seems odd to me, you'd expect it to be the other way around (this doesn't mean I think all 80 years olds are senile). His decisions at board level post manager have all been spectacularly bad too. It is also well reported by tier 1 journos that he was more in the Pochettino as manager camp than Ten Hag, Pochettino is currently out of a job if Ten Hag has a bad start things could get hairy. Will Arnold listen if Fergie advises him to move for Pochettino?
Has he already convinced Ronaldo to stay? Who knows but personally I think Ten Hag is better off without Ronaldo and I do believe Fergie wishes for Ronaldo to stay and it has been reported he did speak with Ronaldo the other day.

I'm not sure what Robson adds. I don't want to come across harsh because he was a legend as a player and seems a great bloke but the fact Arnold called on him is baffling.

Also when I said "embarassing' I was clearly joking. Lighten up lad.
 
phelans shorts said:
1) Jesus Christ I wish I could be retired at 65, I’ll probably have to be about 90 to have a chance.

Lets be honest though, you wont be working at 80 especially if you had a stroke in your late 70s.
SAF is the greatest ever but its not disrespectful to dare to say he is way past his prime. Its called life.
Personally I think he would be doing virtually nothing. I certainly hope so as if we want to take a serious role we will probably bloody kill him
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Really happy about this, and I don't get the disrespect Fergie gets from some people around here. Other than recommending Moyes, I'm 100% confident that Fergie had no influence whatsoever on the football side of the club since his retirement. Woody went with a completely different approach, and none of the managers that followed Fergie mentioned anything about him having any say about anything.

Getting some advise from Fergie and Gill should only help the club, in fact we really need to have more football people around the club at the moment.
 
A lot of principles do hold true over time and it certainly sounded like United strayed from a culture of internal competition, hard work and trying to be best in class. Having people who can offer advice and think in this way is a good idea. I don’t think it means that they will be asked about new signings etc (ie specifics, day to day decision making) but it is better having someone listen to advice from people who have taken the club to the very top and know the challenges, rather than having an Ed Woodward type who knows everything and doesn’t listen to anyone.
People can speak about how it’s a big nostalgia trip but look at the likes of Cruyff who sorted Barca out and then in latter years put Ajax on the path that they are on now
 
Institutional knowledge is always important. What EtH does on the pitch is not impacted by this.

Bayern have Oliver Kahn and Uli Hoeness and Salihamidzic as "old boys" now playing critical positions for the upper management of the club. We see it with VDS are Ajax. We see it throughout club football structures and nobody says anything about those strucutures until it comes to United.

Having those key people around you, as Arnold does and is willing to do, speaks volumes of surrounding yourself with smarter people to make better and more educated decisions. Something that Woodward obviously failed to do and paid the price.

Shocking comments about ageism and experience...you can't teach experience or guidance. Those are things that are earned and developed over years and decades. These are pillars of our club and people want to cut them down and not even give them some platform to discuss with the club's CEO, who is ultimately his own person and has enabled Murtough to run a lot of the football side.
 
I hope to god the Fergie appointment is a token appointment to add some sense of respectability to the operations side of the club. Similar to Dalglish at Pool. I really expect Fergie to be some kinda figurative head reminding people of the standards of this club and not be taken to the toilets like Mr Ego out there wh***ng himself to every CL club to the detriment of our club's face value and prestige. But If Fergie is given a role that in anyway challenges or undermines ETH, it will go down as the worst thing done by the board since we signed the self-proclaimed KING in recent times.

David Gill is a welcome addition, better than most of what we have had since he left. That makes sense to me. Robson is an unknown. If someone like Fletcher can make the grade, and players like Rio and Neville vying themselves, why not give Robson a go! He is old school with the right mentality at the top, can't do much harm.
 
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Maybe they'll solve our midfield woes and give Paddy Crerand a run out against Brighton
 
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crossy1686 said:
What has being 80 got to do with undermining a manager? Is that the age you magically become a toxic cnut or something?
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No, your mind evaporates and your advice should be heard as its likely something silly really old men would say.
 
crossy1686 said:
I think you should really spend some more time around older generations that haven't fried their brains on Cash in the attic and The Mirror
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You must be really lucky if everyone you know at that age is on top of their game.
My parents/grandparents/(great)uncles/aunts etc had some really educated people amongst them but the ones that made 80 were absolutely not capable of doing the jobs they were fantastic at when they were working and their employers would never in a million years ask for advice.
Now we know sport can be a bit different but cmon its not from another planet. SAF is not some super being who defies human aging. He is an elderly man with seriously health issues. That not ageist. That's a fact
 
#SAFBack

The king returns to the usurp the throne, watch out Tin HEg
 
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