Sir Alex, David Gill and Bryan Robson have been brought in to advise Richard Arnold on a wide range of club matters

Escobar said:
You are not wrong here. Looking at SAFs influence over the past 8 years, he really shouldnt be asked for advice anymore
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Give examples. People make it seem like SAF was running the show instead of woodward, give multiple examples of him influencing the club in a negative way other than Ole and Ronaldo who btw is the reason we didn't finish lower.
Escobar said:
You are not wrong here. Looking at SAFs influence over the past 8 years, he really shouldnt be asked for advice anymore
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Did he go for Fellaini instead of Thiago? Did he sign Di Maria when he clearly wanted PSG? Did he re sign Pogba? Sign Lukaku? Sanchez? appointed past it managers like LVG and Mourinho? Did he empower players to feel bigger than the club? Did he give dead weight contract extensions? Seems like his negative influence has been quite minimal when you look at the whole picture.
 
Hansi Fick said:
No you weren't. What's embarrassing is to concoct nonsense like this and then throw a hissy fit if reality doesn't align with it.
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Well, you're essentially right.

People assumed a lot of things when RR was announced.

Still, you could say that hiring ETH is - sort of - in line with some of those assumptions.
 
Nicoseth said:
People will literally complain about anything. How could this be a bad thing? Getting some more football people on the board is exactly what we need.
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Asking for advices is embarrassing. Back in my day advices weren't a thing.
 
RVN1991 said:
Give examples. People make it seem like SAF was running the show instead of woodward, give multiple examples of him influencing the club in a negative way other than Ole and Ronaldo who btw is the reason we didn't finish lower.

Did he go for Fellaini instead of Thiago? Did he sign Di Maria when he clearly wanted PSG? Did he re sign Pogba? Sign Lukaku? Sanchez? appointed past it managers like LVG and Mourinho? Did he empower players to feel bigger than the club? Did he give dead weight contract extensions? Seems like his negative influence has been quite minimal when you look at the whole picture.
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It's a silly conspiracy theory. It's well known that Fergie and Gill had no power when Woodward was chief executive because if they had their way we wouldn't have hired Mourinho in 2016 and we would've went for Ronaldo in 2018 when he was leaving Madrid.
 
RVN1991 said:
Other than Ole what decision in the last ten years is "looking backwards"? LVG? Mourinho? Pogba? Di Maria? Sanchez? Someone make this argument make sense please.
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Sure, all the managers were to some extent.

Moyes was chosen by SAF, given an outrageous contract since we are a club which 'Sticks by its people', and allowed to make ridiculous moves in the transfer market, I believe turning down Thiago & Kroos in favour of an overpriced Fellaini. He tore apart the core of a hugely successful side, alienating key figures in the dressing room in the process, and also discarded an experienced coaching staff for the likes of P Nev and Rumsden. The manager should not have been given that power but, we as a club had always run with the Manager having ultimate power. We wanted the next SAF but Moyes, well, was Moyes.. - Looking backwards.

LVG again was given free reign over the squad, wasting just about all of it on average at best players, while shipping out some useful squaddies. He promoted youth, just as the 'United way' demanded and left us with gems such as Blackett, Riley and McNair. Some of the worst football I've ever had the misfortune to sit through, and was kept around far too long in my opinion. The guy was a relic who'd had some success with the Dutch national team recently - Looking backwards.

Mourinho quite clearly a busted flush by the time here came here. His tactics were outdated, he had a history of throwing his clubs and players under the bus in the interest of self preservation, however our inability to move away from the United Way of the all powerful manager meant we took him anyway out if desperation, and he was of course a disaster - Looking backwards.

Ole and Pogba probably don't need explaining as to why they were backwards looking moves ..

Rangnick and now ETH, were in my opinion, the first well thought out, forward thinking moves we've made as a club in many years. Whether they'll work out, who's to say. But it suggests there's a strategy at work here if nothing else, an acceptance that we need to evolve as a club.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
So who exactly do people want Arnold to be taking advice from? Or were people happy with the Woodward "I'm an imbecile but I do what I want" approach?
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I don't think he should be "taking advice" from anybody.

I think there should be a central power structure of people in formal roles who between them have all the expertise required to run the club, without needing to turn to former players/manager outside of that structure for ad hoc advice.

In other words if we think we need the expertise of the likes Ferguson, Robson, Gill or anyone else to run the club properly then they should be formally employed in roles within the power structure of the club where it's their specific job to provide that expertise in the form of formal recommendations, not informal advice.

I don't like the idea that the sort of advice Ferguson/Robson/Gill might provide is something the decision-making structure at the club has to look outside for, rather than it being a central pillar.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Sure - yes.

That's the key - use the advice properly.

ETA I've said this before, but Fergie's particular genius in all likelihood isn't something that he can impart to anyone. It isn't a "method" which can be learned.

But there are nevertheless certain timeless aspects of his way of doing things which probably can be imparted to others - and you're a monumental idiot if you don't pay attention when Fergie speaks about football.

It's all about the balance, as always.
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For sure, the guy was a genius. Not just in his approach to football but his management of people - off the scale.

I have hope that the people in charge at the moment are sensible types who know their limits, and will take the advice on board to more fully flesh out their decisions.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
As stated in the article he had no power at the club while Woodward was here.
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As far as I'm concerned, Fergie's direct influence stopped with Moyes. And that wasn't him interfering - it was the club's decision to let him pick his successor.

Other than that, he may have been consulted on certain matters - but there's zero evidence that he's been a decision maker.

I personally find it more than likely that he was involved, somehow, in the Ronaldo business. But that doesn't mean he was the one pushing for it - it's just as likely (for me) that Mendes called him, rather than other way around.
 
royboy16 said:
I love Fergie but an 80 year old man has no business getting involved in this resctructuring up top.
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Where does it say restructuring? They are there in an advisory role. If Arnold is a good leader he can take all the advice in the world and do what he wants anyway.
 
I would love to know how someone as knowledgable as Ferguson ended up picking Moyes as manager. One of the all time bad decisions.
 
OleGunnar20 said:
I have hope that the people in charge at the moment are sensible types who know their limits, and will take the advice on board to more fully flesh out their decisions.
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I will go with this - yes.

Benefit of the doubt, etc.

I'm obviously far from convinced (who is?) - but Arnold doesn't positively give me Woodward vibes (for now), and I'll take that (for now).
 
Canagel said:
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Obviously we need to do it our way now. Erik ten Hag is doing it his way. Arnold and Murtagh is doing it their way. That said, giving Arnold and Murtagh advice and knowledge from people who have lived longer than them, been doing what they are doing now for decades combined and they have been doing it with great success; thats wonderful. Having role models, mentors or what ever we call them, thats an asset to have. How I wish I could learn from people older than me, with more success than myself. They using their time to help me. Nothing would be better.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
As far as I'm concerned, Fergie's direct influence stopped with Moyes. And that wasn't him interfering - it was the club's decision to let him pick his successor.

Other than that, he may have been consulted on certain matters - but there's zero evidence that he's been a decision maker.

I personally find it more than likely that he was involved, somehow, in the Ronaldo business. But that doesn't mean he was the one pushing for it - it's just as likely (for me) that Mendes called him, rather than other way around.
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Yeah he was asked for his opinion along with Gill and Sir Bobby and they put Moyes' name forward. It just sums up what our structure looked like back then and how distant the Glazers were from the club.

There's no doubt he landed us Ronaldo but there's no way he went rogue and got him in without the club's blessing. That's not Fergie's style.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I will go with this - yes.

Benefit of the doubt, etc.

I'm obviously far from convinced (who is?) - but Arnold doesn't positively give me Woodward vibes (for now), and I'll take that (for now).
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Aha, yep - Benefit of the doubt sounds about right. He's not Woodward, and for that we give thanks ..
 
Tom Van Persie said:
A better way to look at is he wants to run the club totally opposite to how Woodward did. He's surrounding himself with football people which indicates football will be prioritized again.
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Exactly how I see it. They’re there to advise on how to run the club properly, we should all be grateful, it must have been hard for Fergie and Gill watching the turmoil and crap we’ve been dishing up.

Can’t really see what’s to moan about. I doubt very much they’ll get involved in the football side. From early impressions I’d imagine SAF is liking ETH and will want him to play his own game.
 
DixieDean said:
I would love to know how someone as knowledgable as Ferguson ended up picking Moyes as manager. One of the all time bad decisions.
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Being a genius football manager doesn't mean you're particularly apt at identifying other genius managers - or even just very good ones.

And certainly not if the task is to identify someone ideal to succeed you.

When Fergie considered retiring the first time - well, let's say that his (alleged, mostly - but I personally don't doubt the main names) short list for managers suited to replace him was...pretty shite, really.

O'Neill anyone? I mean - good manager. Sure. Relatively speaking - as in, not bad. Having anything resembling Fergie's own genius, though? Just nowhere near.
 
Gandalf said:
Don't mind this at all. The way it is being positioned it seems Arnold is effectively saying please advise me on how not to repeat the many feck ups of Woody. Gill certainly knows his stuff and Robbo and SAF can surely add value around connecting with the fanbase and what should be prioritized in redeveloping the infrastructure to benefit the players and matchgoing fans.
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You are a very sensible poster. I agree.
 
If Arnold needs such help then he should not be in such a bloody position at the club in the first place if we are serious about getting back to the top.

If you want to be the best you hire the best, not some novice that has bank on nostalgic names to help him.

This club, or should I say franchise..
 
DixieDean said:
I would love to know how someone as knowledgable as Ferguson ended up picking Moyes as manager. One of the all time bad decisions.
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Because the 5 or 6 first choices weren't available, and we seemed to think Moyes was a young Fergie, seemingly based on being Scottish and having put a fairly decent shift in at a minnow club like he had 30 years before.
 
It's not a bad idea to seek advice from people who achieved incredible levels of success
 
Surely we need to let the great man enjoy his retirement now.
It wasn't long ago he had a major health scare, so coming in to do more work doesn't seem overly wise does it?
 
Lee565 said:
If Arnold needs such help then he should not be in such a bloody position at the club in the first place if we are serious about getting back to the top.

If you want to be the best you hire the best, not some novice that has bank on nostalgic names to help him.

This club, or should I say franchise..
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Everyone who reaches that kind of level has people that they can ask for their opinion on things. Literally all of them.
 
phelans shorts said:
Everyone who reaches that kind of level has people that they can ask for their opinion on things. Literally all of them.
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I doubt someone in the same position at liverpool are running to Dalglish for advice because liverpool have been serious about putting the best in charge.
 
Shane88 said:
Past Glories FC. Move the feck on.

Fergie is an 80 year old man who has been out of the game for 10 years. What is he going to offer? Seriously.
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You'd be better asking what he can't offer advice on.

I think it's a great move by Arnold. Clearly he knows he needs advice in certain areas from those who've been there and done it and who better to get it from.
 
So long as their line of thinking is moving forward and catching up with how others do it, and not going back to old ways, as we ended up behind in terms of how things are run, our facilities etc. just because of how good the Fergie machine was.
 
How is this anything other than a sensible course of action?

There’s nothing to suggest Fergie and Gill are making decision or Arnold is being subservient to them.

Smart, self aware, people can use mentors and sounding boards to get different perspectives and still make their own decisions.
 
Lee565 said:
I doubt someone in the same position at liverpool are running to Dalglish for advice because liverpool have been serious about putting the best in charge.
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I think you would be very surprised. In fact, Dalglish was on the board before he became manager, and has been on the board since leaving as manager.

So a nice example you picked there. Really showed me.
 
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