Sir Alex’s biggest mistakes

reko said:
We not gonna talk about moyes? To this day i will can't believe neither him and the board see what a monumental cock up its going to be, considering 99% of us could see it.
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Oh the Davey Moyes debacle.... ?!!?!? :rolleyes:
I have heard a tale that SAF was told to sound out Guardiola about the United job, and took him out to a restaurant in New York, which they've both confirmed did happen.
SAF insists that Guardiola wasn't interested in the job, and Guardiola insists the job was never mentioned.
I wonder what the truth of that is.
 
Rock of Gibraltar

Magnier and his 99 questions.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
He really can't be blamed for years of underinvestment and not being arrogant enough to realise that he was doing absolute miracles.
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Well, he can if he facilitated or by his actions contributed to, the American take-over and many people who have already contributed to this thread, believe that to be the case.

I have a theory: why in the last ten years has Sir Alex so often still got involved in operational matters, that really should not be his concern anymore - supporting OGS, persuading Ronaldo to return* etc etc. It's because deep down he knows he made a big mistake (has Sir Alex ever spoken out against the Glazers?) and he is trying to atone for it by getting Utd. back to the top again, from behind the scenes. Sadly, its not really worked out & Man Utd. have in effect been guilty of allowing history to repeat itself: Sir Matt Busby in the early 1970s.

*Weirdly these two examples show just how messed up things have become at OT. Ole did lean on the help of Sir Alex, he acknowledged that at the time and coming from Molde and Cardiff it was totally understandable, but then with the Ronaldo phonecall he basically pulled the rug out from under him. Who knows where United will have finished last season without Christiano, but my betting is higher than they did under OGS (40% of the season) and Ralf Rangnick, (60% of the season).

P.S. Before anyone tells me that SAF only made that phonecall after discussing it with OGS - maybe so, but I believe Ole thought Ronaldo might be great as a 'super-sub' for United, as he himself often was. But when Sir Alex gave an interview after the Everton game saying you always start with your best players, he again undermined the sitting manager & Ole was sacked a few weeks later.

Ultimately, to answer the question in this thread succinctly: Sir Alex biggest mistake? Ironically it is this: he always believed that nobody was bigger than the club, but he has ignored that belief when it came to himself. He just can't totally give up the power he had (its like an addiction) and I just hope ETH has the strength of will to say to him, stay away from team affairs, I'm the boss now.
 
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Ikon said:
Oh the Davey Moyes debacle.... ?!!?!? :rolleyes:
I have heard a tale that SAF was told to sound out Guardiola about the United job, and took him out to a restaurant in New York, which they've both confirmed did happen.
SAF insists that Guardiola wasn't interested in the job, and Guardiola insists the job was never mentioned.
I wonder what the truth of that is.
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Several top managers were considered before Moyes, but and here is the key: 'top managers' will have looked at the club in 2014 and understood the massive problems ahead, so will have respectfully and diplomatically declined.

Mourinho is the possible exception - I believe he was briefly considered, but rejected by two people: Sir Alex Ferguson and Sir Bobby Charlton who didn't feel he was the right sort of person (too volatile/too self-obsessed???) for the Manchester United job.

Has this been mentioned as one of his biggest mistakes? Because when Mourinho did eventually come to United he did win a trophy (the last one to come to the club in fact) and last year he won a European trophy at Roma too. So perhaps if that block on him coming to United in 2014 hadn't been put in place, maybe things would have transitioned more smoothly?
 
Imo one of his mistakes was not getting rid of Rooney when Rooney made his play for higher wages.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
He really can't be blamed for years of underinvestment and not being arrogant enough to realise that he was doing absolute miracles.
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Indeed.

And it’s not like there was a lack of investment after he left, nor that the people in charge following him hadn’t had loads of opportunities to get things right.
 
Hammondo said:
Imo one of his mistakes was not getting rid of Rooney when Rooney made his play for higher wages.
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Not really. He presumably weighed up the downsides of “giving in” against the benefits of keeping a player who was still at the top of his game and gave his all to the team.

The Woodward/Moyes mega contract when Rooney was beginning to show signs of decline was the real mistake.
 
Revaulx said:
Not really. He presumably weighed up the downsides of “giving in” against the benefits of keeping a player who was still at the top of his game and gave his all to the team.

The Woodward/Moyes mega contract when Rooney was beginning to show signs of decline was the real mistake.
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He became lazy and our culture of hard work started its decline there. We set a precedent of players being bigger than the club.
 
Its Glazer of course



Every other Ferguson "mistake" is just variance.
 
Hammondo said:
He became lazy and our culture of hard work started its decline there.
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Really? I don’t recall that at all. He’d always had a habit of “relaxing” too much in the close season; I don’t think that got any more so. There was certainly a physical decline, but that was attributable to longstanding lifestyle choices, (possibly) genetic factors and the cumulative effects of bringing him back from injury before he was ready.

When people were tearing their hair out at Rooney’s poor performances during the LvG “my captain shall always play” era, I don’t recall anyone accusing him of being lazy.

We set a precedent of players being bigger than the club.
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Yeah there’s something in that, but SAF was generally a pragmatist, and would have realised that there’s a fine line to be trodden sometimes. There’s no way he would have sanctioned the ridiculous contract Rooney was given the year after he’d retired, because he would have see that by then he was in decline.
 
wolvored said:
Yes I think if we had have won it the year earlier, when we lost on GD, he would have gone then. He knew City and Chelsea would gradually overhaul Utd and it was no longer a 2 horse race. The fact the Glazers at the time wouldnt invest meant he had to go before his legacy started getting tarnished.
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I've always harboured a similar point (albeit from a City perspective) that Ferguson should have retired after 10/11 when United were still top dogs in Manchester, and had just overhauled Liverpool in title wins.
The biggest footballing dynasties evolve from clubs selling their best players slightly earlier than most people expect, and Ferguson should have walked into the sunset, and thus allowed a new Manager to take the helm with Ferdinand and Vidic still relatively young.

I fully expect City to face the same issues in the near future, because so much hinges on making the right decisions at precisely the right time.
 
Scaring Europe to Death said:
I've always harboured a similar point (albeit from a City perspective) that Ferguson should have retired after 10/11 when United were still top dogs in Manchester, and had just overhauled Liverpool in title wins.
The biggest footballing dynasties evolve from clubs selling their best players slightly earlier than most people expect, and Ferguson should have walked into the sunset, and thus allowed a new Manager to take the helm with Ferdinand and Vidic still relatively young.

I fully expect City to face the same issues in the near future, because so much hinges on making the right decisions at precisely the right time.
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Maybe Pep will fall out with the Abu Dhabi people over something inconsequential enabling a bunch of shysters to come in from America and make $$$s from the club, whilst winning zip. Pep gets a place on the board and will hang-around in the background making dodgy decisions for years and years including tempting back 37 year old Sergio Aguero on £1 million a week, even though current manager (Vincent Kompany) isn't that convinced.

Meanwhile most fans will still sing his praises for what he did 'back in the day', whilst Newcastle United win 5 Premier Leagues back-to-back....
 
Rock of Gibraltar and protecting the Glazers lack of spending with the “no value” bullshit comments.

Letting Stam go was a terrible football decision imo.
 
Azhar88 said:
Well, he can if he facilitated or by his actions contributed to, the American take-over and many people who have already contributed to this thread, believe that to be the case.

I have a theory: why in the last ten years has Sir Alex so often still got involved in operational matters, that really should not be his concern anymore - supporting OGS, persuading Ronaldo to return* etc etc. It's because deep down he knows he made a big mistake (has Sir Alex ever spoken out against the Glazers?) and he is trying to atone for it by getting Utd. back to the top again, from behind the scenes. Sadly, its not really worked out & Man Utd. have in effect been guilty of allowing history to repeat itself: Sir Matt Busby in the early 1970s.

*Weirdly these two examples show just how messed up things have become at OT. Ole did lean on the help of Sir Alex, he acknowledged that at the time and coming from Molde and Cardiff it was totally understandable, but then with the Ronaldo phonecall he basically pulled the rug out from under him. Who knows where United will have finished last season without Christiano, but my betting is higher than they did under OGS (40% of the season) and Ralf Rangnick, (60% of the season).

P.S. Before anyone tells me that SAF only made that phonecall after discussing it with OGS - maybe so, but I believe Ole thought Ronaldo might be great as a 'super-sub' for United, as he himself often was. But when Sir Alex gave an interview after the Everton game saying you always start with your best players, he again undermined the sitting manager & Ole was sacked a few weeks later.

Ultimately, to answer the question in this thread succinctly: Sir Alex biggest mistake? Ironically it is this: he always believed that nobody was bigger than the club, but he has ignored that belief when it came to himself. He just can't totally give up the power he had (its like an addiction) and I just hope ETH has the strength of will to say to him, stay away from team affairs, I'm the boss now.
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It's the same problem we had after Sir Matt.

We really need to make sure our old managers stay well clear.
 
Posted in another thread but the biggest mistake was his last 5 years where he refused to invest. I don't believe he wasn't afforded money because he would say no to paying agent fees then turn around and spend the agent fee equivalent on someone like Bebe. He said he was never refused money and I honestly believe it. It made no sense to defend the glazers as much as he did if they were truly fecking him over. He just became too conscious of inflation.

This killed us. Not only did we miss out on the iconic players of the next decade we essentially wasted our last couple years of financial advantage in Europe. Back then only Madrid could comfortably outbid us. The likes of city who had money were still struggling to attract bigger targets.
 
Azhar88 said:
P.S. Before anyone tells me that SAF only made that phonecall after discussing it with OGS - maybe so, but I believe Ole thought Ronaldo might be great as a 'super-sub' for United, as he himself often was. But when Sir Alex gave an interview after the Everton game saying you always start with your best players, he again undermined the sitting manager & Ole was sacked a few weeks later.
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It was hardly an interview. Just an off the cuff remark to someone that happened to be filmed and uploaded to Youtube or whatever. Is he not allowed to talk about football with anyone?

If such a minor thing (which was also silly because Fergie himself benched his best players at times) undermines a manager in a way he can't handle it, he should be in the job.

I don't think Fergie's been involved much in recent years at all, unless he was asked.
 
Hard to criticise the man but I’d say buying Berbatov and showing Tevez the door. Berba changed the dynamic of the team and ruined a fluid front 3.

Replacing Ronaldo and Tevez with Valencia, Owen and Obertan. A shocking transfer window but that could be because of the Glazers. If I remember correctly we had mega interest rates on bonds at the time until the club refinanced.

The squad was pretty poor when he left. The fact he won the league so easily shows how brilliant he was. When you look at where most of those players ended up it was very average and left the next manager in a difficult position.

Then Moyes…
 
Josep Dowling said:
Hard to criticise the man but I’d say buying Berbatov and showing Tevez the door. Berba changed the dynamic of the team and ruined a fluid front 3.

Replacing Ronaldo and Tevez with Valencia, Owen and Obertan. A shocking transfer window but that could be because of the Glazers. If I remember correctly we had mega interest rates on bonds at the time until the club refinanced.

The squad was pretty poor when he left. The fact he won the league so easily shows how brilliant he was. When you look at where most of those players ended up it was very average and left the next manager in a difficult position.

Then Moyes…
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Well 6 pages on this thread would suggest otherwise.

I often wonder if his success was partly down to the strength and depth (or rather lack of it) of the PL when he was boss. He mainly had only one, maybe two big rivals: Blackburn to start with, then Newcastle under Keegan, then Arsenal, then Chelsea under (Jose) and Man City/Liverpool towards the end. OK, sometimes these rivalries overlapped, but nothing like now where the top-half of the PL are all decent and all financially well-off. The evidence to back this up can be found in Europe where let's be honest, Sir Alex didn't do as well as he should have over the years. Which brings me to another matter: transfer spending - back when Sir Alex was the Gov'nor, money for top players was not really an issue. One example, £30 million for Rio Ferdinand 20 years ago! that was unheard of for a defender, at that time and equates to £132 million in the present day*. But as you say, all that changed under the Glazer's ownership and the reasons for that have been well talked about on here already.

It would be interesting to wonder how Sir Alex Ferguson (maybe with with Bryan Robson alonside him) would do at the club in 2022..... oh hang on a minute!

*See https://theathletic.com/3213719/202...n-uniteds-biggest-transfers-would-cost-today/
 
Wasted something like 4 years between Keane and Carrick.

Thinking the premier league gung-ho style would translate in the CL, it rarely did.
 
reko said:
We not gonna talk about moyes? To this day i will can't believe neither him and the board see what a monumental cock up its going to be, considering 99% of us could see it.
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That's the one for sure, and it'll be a blemish on his legacy long after he's gone. To have had such an incredible career and then personally handpick and endorse a successor so inept and underqualified is really, really bad. The best that could really be said about Moyes, even at the time, was that he managed to maintain mediocrity at a club whose natural place was mediocrity. Never won anything, never impressed, never overachieved, never really did anything other than keep Everton where they belonged. It definitely feels like a case of misguided patriotic camaraderie, which someone of Alex Ferguson's credentials should have been above.
 
reko said:
We not gonna talk about moyes? To this day i will can't believe neither him and the board see what a monumental cock up its going to be, considering 99% of us could see it.
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Moyes is the biggest mistake by far.
 
Stack said:
Choosing Moyes as his replacement was his single biggest mistake.
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Choosing Moyes is easily number one. Not having a succession plan.

The other big one is not standing up to the Glazers. He is now a paid board member in a purely ceremonial role. This is basically hush money so he doesn't step out of line.
 
Azhar88 said:
Well, he can if he facilitated or by his actions contributed to, the American take-over and many people who have already contributed to this thread, believe that to be the case.

I have a theory: why in the last ten years has Sir Alex so often still got involved in operational matters, that really should not be his concern anymore - supporting OGS, persuading Ronaldo to return* etc etc. It's because deep down he knows he made a big mistake (has Sir Alex ever spoken out against the Glazers?) and he is trying to atone for it by getting Utd. back to the top again, from behind the scenes. Sadly, its not really worked out & Man Utd. have in effect been guilty of allowing history to repeat itself: Sir Matt Busby in the early 1970s.

*Weirdly these two examples show just how messed up things have become at OT. Ole did lean on the help of Sir Alex, he acknowledged that at the time and coming from Molde and Cardiff it was totally understandable, but then with the Ronaldo phonecall he basically pulled the rug out from under him. Who knows where United will have finished last season without Christiano, but my betting is higher than they did under OGS (40% of the season) and Ralf Rangnick, (60% of the season).

P.S. Before anyone tells me that SAF only made that phonecall after discussing it with OGS - maybe so, but I believe Ole thought Ronaldo might be great as a 'super-sub' for United, as he himself often was. But when Sir Alex gave an interview after the Everton game saying you always start with your best players, he again undermined the sitting manager & Ole was sacked a few weeks later.

Ultimately, to answer the question in this thread succinctly: Sir Alex biggest mistake? Ironically it is this: he always believed that nobody was bigger than the club, but he has ignored that belief when it came to himself. He just can't totally give up the power he had (its like an addiction) and I just hope ETH has the strength of will to say to him, stay away from team affairs, I'm the boss now.
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Good post. Even SAF can't beat himself and time.

I love SAF but he should stay away from how United is run.
 
1. No good midfield upgrades after Carrick. Relying on Giggs and Rooney as midfielders just tells you how weak we were.
2. Helping bring Ronaldo back
3. Moyes
 
Obviously hindsight is a marvellous thing but his feud with Magnier and McManus over Rock Of Gibraltar was the start point for where we are now as that set the wheels in motion for the Glazer’s coming in and the Woodward regime that’s burnt through cash and shocking decisions for the past decade.
 
TSop said:
Rock of Gibraltar

Magnier and his 99 questions.
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May I ask what is this referring to (99 questions)? its something I haven't heard about and I have recently become more and more curious - due to this thread actually - about what really went on towards the end of the Irish owners time at Utd. and the lead up to the Glazer takeover.

angak said:
Choosing Moyes is easily number one. Not having a succession plan.

The other big one is not standing up to the Glazers. He is now a paid board member in a purely ceremonial role. This is basically hush money so he doesn't step out of line.
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I like that! I have often wondered what was in it for them (the Glazers) to keep Sir Alex on the payroll* and I think you may have a good point.

However, as regards your other thing ".... a purely ceremonial roll" well that has changed this week has it not? See thread entitled: "Sir Alex, David Gill and Bryan Robson have been brought in to advise Richard Arnold on a wide range of club matters....". I've been puzzled about this one myself since Tuesday, but I have come to this conclusion: Sir Alex is never going to be persuaded to stay out of stuff completely, so why not formalise things? At least now it stops people moaning that he is poking his nose in and undermining the manager, because its been sanctioned by the club itself.

*Originally I believed he was on £1 million a year as club Ambassador/Associate Director, but last year I heard some mention of a figure 4 x that (still peanuts to United of course, but I hold Sir Alex partly responsible for CR7 returning and on £450,000 a week for 2 years - that is not peanuts). I wonder what Bryan Robson is getting for his involvement, after the news this week! Its fine to reward past heroes with small side jobs (meet and great to those people paying big money for special match day tickets where you get a meal and champagne and all that stuff, for example) and can I add, in the past ex-players really were badly treated once their playing time was up, most notably Bobby Moore, so I don't want us to go back to those days. But really, do any other top clubs pay ex-Captains and ex-Managers big $$$s to offer 'consultancy'? I don't think so.

I would love to know this too: was Erik Ten Hag consulted, before these new changes were put into effect, because unless things are clear and the hierarchy is fully explained, he can only feel like he is being undermined or being scrutinised excessively and nobody likes that to happen to them, especially when starting a new job.
 
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i’d say not earning enough money whilst managing and having to forge a new career in his twilight years as a proctologist.

94-D1956-A-8056-4-A93-B680-6550-A5-B56-F03.jpg
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Darren, probably.

Kidding.
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I read this on the internet recently: Christy Pym the Peterborough Goalie lost it with Darren Ferguson (manager) and threw a boot at him.

Who gave him that crazy idea?

Apparently the goalie has been out on loan ever since, so it just shows that Darren has learnt one thing from his Dad: that ultimately, the manager is the Boss.

I hope ETH has learnt that same message and isn't in anyway influenced by people above him (ex-Captains/ex-Managers!).

I hope this thread only ever discusses mistakes SAF made in the past and not ones still to come...
 
Azhar88 said:
May I ask what is this referring to (99 questions)? its something I haven't heard about and I have recently become more and more curious - due to this thread actually - about what really went on towards the end of the Irish owners time at Utd. and the lead up to the Glazer takeover.



I like that! I have often wondered what was in it for them (the Glazers) to keep Sir Alex on the payroll* and I think you may have a good point.

However, as regards your other thing ".... a purely ceremonial roll" well that has changed this week has it not? See thread entitled: "Sir Alex, David Gill and Bryan Robson have been brought in to advise Richard Arnold on a wide range of club matters....". I've been puzzled about this one myself since Tuesday, but I have come to this conclusion: Sir Alex is never going to be persuaded to stay out of stuff completely, so why not formalise things? At least now it stops people moaning that he is poking his nose in and undermining the manager, because its been sanctioned by the club itself.

*Originally I believed he was on £1 million a year as club Ambassador/Associate Director, but last year I heard some mention of a figure 4 x that (still peanuts to United of course, but I hold Sir Alex partly responsible for CR7 returning and on £450,000 a week for 2 years - that is not peanuts). I wonder what Bryan Robson is getting for his involvement, after the news this week! Its fine to reward past heroes with small side jobs (meet and great to those people paying big money for special match day tickets where you get a meal and champagne and all that stuff, for example) and can I add, in the past ex-players really were badly treated once their playing time was up, most notably Bobby Moore, so I don't want us to go back to those days. But really, do any other top clubs pay ex-Captains and ex-Managers big $$$s to offer 'consultancy'? I don't think so.

I would love to know this too: was Erik Ten Hag consulted, before these new changes were put into effect, because unless things are clear and the hierarchy is fully explained, he can only feel like he is being undermined or being scrutinised excessively and nobody likes that to happen to them, especially when starting a new job.
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Regarding 99 questions, these are two decent articles taken from the time:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/feb/01/newsstory.sport5

http://www.manchesterunited-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/99_questions_for_the_board_140160/index.shtml

I think the mistake United fans made was blindly following Fergie and the club on this. They should have asked more questions. From memory, only really Red Issue offered any level of criticism.

I also think the Glazers kept Fergie on the payroll because they have no clue how to run a football club. They genuinely thought it would help.
 
Not necessarily SAF mistake but a failure all round to sign Gaza and then later Shearer.

Gaza life may have been very different and Shearer had the quality and mindset for Utd
 
matt10000 said:
Not necessarily SAF mistake but a failure all round to sign Gaza and then later Shearer.

Gaza life may have been very different and Shearer had the quality and mindset for Utd
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Neither were SAF’s mistakes, the poor decisions here were Shearer’s and Gazza’s.
 
Fall out over a racehorse ….enter the glazers

That mistake is in a league of it’s own at the top.
I’ve a feeling it could get worse before it gets better.
 
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