It may be hindsight but most of our players were starting to get over the hill which was less than ideal, rvp was also notoriously made of glass so it was always risky move, thankfully it worked for 1 season at least.1.Selling Stam, and then replacing him with Blanc
Stam was an utter don, and the most disappointing sale I can remember bar Ronaldo.
You do wonder about the truth of it though. There were rumours about his book cheesing him off, and we dressed it up as him "losing" a bit of pace/ability etc. But you always wonder if we'd seen the drug ban looming, and got rid quick smart.
Bringing Blanc in about 5 years too late was woeful.
2. Trying to take major shareholders on regarding that bloody race horse.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/hors...ferguson-glazer-rock-of-gibraltar-cheltenham/
3. Doing things on the cheap, post Ronaldo.
We were still competitive, but we went from the best in Europe to dropping a major gear.
4. The "no value in the market" phase.
Whether covering for the Glazers, we seemed to refuse to buy players in certain positions, and make the best of what we had, rather than really asserting dominance with major recruitment.
5. Moyes
Laughably spinning it that he was the "chosen one", and then later on it emerging he was probably about 6th choice.
He shouldn't even have been on anyone's long list, let alone short list.
Unlike many, I don't think he left us particularly weak at all.
The Da Silva twins, Jones, Smalling and Evans were all rated as having high potential, it's not his fault they didn't develop as hoped for.
Cleverley was another who was affected by injury etc.
Van Persie dropping a gear so soon was unexpected too, though I put most of the season post Fergie drop off down to Moyes.
This.Moyes.
it stings even more seeing how in retrospect, bvb beat juve quite comprehensively in the final, Cantona was uncharacteristically shite in both parts of the tie, always thought that it was what made him hang his boots, shame.Would say one of the most anguish inducing ties ever, hit the woodwork 3 times in the first leg, missed 15+ great chances in the second and the 2 goals Dortmund scored were both deflected. One of the jammiest wins ever
I don't know about this, perhaps our attack and our defense was the best it's ever been but even in our peak at Moscow our midfield seemed lacking, Fergie relied too much on old legs and even though that 2009 final might have been gone our way in another world the gap between us and barca was evident, our midfield was simply not among the best anymore while the 99 version had a Supreme midfield, its why I always favored the 98-03 team to the 06_09 one.I think there might be some truth to the tactical side and you could see from 2006 onward how much more disciplined and structured Utd were in Europe. They also had a vastly stronger squad and this created the best European consistency in the clubs history.
Certainly true, no club the size of Fiorentina can even hope to keep a player such as Batistuta for that long, but even for the standards of the era we underinvested, we were the most consistent team in Europe in terms of dominating our domestic league and still spent less than almost all of the major teams in la liga and serie a, even some of the Midtable clubs from those leagues and domestic rivals flexed their muscle more than us.The game changed though, a lot of younger supporters don't understand what football was like before the superclub era, talent was spread, squads were weaker, much harder to dominate.
You make a wonderful point, certainly food for thought i don't think many european winners had a defense as great as those 2 while most had impeccable midfields, even recently most I don't think any of the recent pairings comes close to those two.Another key point for me is that outside of the Vidic/Rio years Utd never had a world class defense at European level. The 99 team had Stam, but Schmeichel and Irwin were in serious decline, Johnsen was good but brittle, Berg was a solid Pl player but not much else and Gary Neville would peak years later.
it stings even more seeing how in retrospect, bvb beat juve quite comprehensively in the final, Cantona was uncharacteristically shite in both parts of the tie, always thought that it was what made him hang his boots, shame.
I don't know about this, perhaps our attack and our defense was the best it's ever been but even in our peak at Moscow our midfield seemed lacking, Fergie relied too much on old legs and even though that 2009 final might have been gone our way in another world the gap between us and barca was evident, our midfield was simply not among the best anymore while the 99 version had a Supreme midfield, its why I always favored the 98-03 team to the 06_09 one.
Certainly true, no club the size of Fiorentina can even hope to keep a player such as Batistuta for that long, but even for the standards of the era we underinvested, we were the most consistent team in Europe in terms of dominating our domestic league and still spent less than almost all of the major teams in la liga and serie a, even some of the Midtable clubs from those leagues and domestic rivals flexed their muscle more than us.
I've read we had almost finalized the Batistuta deal but the came short due to his wage demands, same with og Ronaldo who went to Barca and Inter which at the time were far inferior in terms of success , imagine how much of a change just a single one of those would have made.
You make a wonderful point, certainly food for thought i don't think many european winners had a defense as great as those 2 while most had impeccable midfields, even recently most I don't think any of the recent pairings comes close to those two.
Yes I think if we had have won it the year earlier, when we lost on GD, he would have gone then. He knew City and Chelsea would gradually overhaul Utd and it was no longer a 2 horse race. The fact the Glazers at the time wouldnt invest meant he had to go before his legacy started getting tarnished.I think both SAF/Gill could see the way the wind was blowing with the Glazers/Woodwards way of running the club and got out. Moyes was an after thought, there was no succession planning because maybe the owners didn't see it coming or had some 'Moyes smoke' blown their way by SAF and Gill as cover, so they could get out? Guess we will never know for certain.
Well, sure I agree about the fact that Fergie built his teams collectively based on values like commitment, loyalty and hard work, but he also loved to add some individual brilliance and flair on top of that. If I remember correctly, the reason why Hazard was dropped was down to money, not type of player or charachter traits. If that was the case, they would never show interest for him to begin with. Hazard was not the most professional in his training, but the same can be said about Wayne Rooney, and Fergie was the best in the world to push the right buttons to make most out of his players. Hazard did great in Chelsea playing for more pragmatic managers than Fergie, and I think he wouldn’t be any less great at United. United have a rich history of entertaining and creative attacking treats which Hazard provided.I think people are demonstrating a complete lack of understanding in some of their suggestions here. Fergie built his teams largely on the collective working together and when people stepped out of line in his eyes they were gone. If they put themselves ahead of the team they were gone and if they were perceived to be getting bigger than the manager they were gone. If you look back on the last decade since he left we have seen how signing individuals rather than building a team doesnt work for us. He was right about Pogba that why he got rid. £90m and 6 years later we know it now too. Berbatov didn't have the work ethic, listen to Rio talking about him, thats why he faded out of the picture. People talking about not signing Hazard need only look at the character traits Hazard has shown since to see why perhaps he wasn't a Fergie player.
We had teams with players many of us didn't think were "good enough" on the pitch but its become clear they were the hardest workers and had the right character and that takes you further sometimes.
I agree that Fergie suggesting Moyes was a mistake but I would argue its not up to him to plan his own succession and the real mistake was having a situation where he was given that level of control in the first place. I think he picked Moyes in the hope that he would still be consulted whereas the likes of Mourinho was secure enough in his own status to go his own way.
The one I disagree most with here is the sale of Jaap Stam, I remember him coming back from his injury and looking like an absolute shadow of the player he was, his sale at that point looked great business to me because I thought he was finished. I dont think anyone watching him at that point could have foreseen the comeback he made in Italy to the level he got to.
I think his biggest fault is also his biggest strength. We did need bigger players at various times to kick on in Europe and I think after being burned with Veron (and to an extent Stam and Van Nistelrooy) he wasn't willing to go back for these types of big names from abroad. The other side of that coin however is that he continued to build teams that worked together with little friction and still won titles so its hard to be too critical.
Not replacing Yorke after the treble year. He'd peaked, should have brought in Batistuta.
Just imagine the shit Cantona would get for jumping out of of a 70/30 tackle in his favour if he was playing now, especially with his dubious European record. Jeez, watching it again it was more like 90/10. Really bad look in a CL SF.
In 2008 Utd still had a functioning Hargreaves and the best version of Anderson. I would assume both of those were key to the future planning for the midfield. They both collapsed soon after leaving Fletcher until the Crohns kicked in. That was a major problem and by 2011 Utd had dropped off significantly.
Didn't we get pretty close to closing the deal at the time?Batistuta has said, in hindsight, that he would never have signed for us or any other European giant of the day.
Well they asked him many years later and he's a fio legend so he wasn't going to say yeah, I wish I'd gone to Madrid or Manchester for a shot at glory. I think he considered it at the time.Batistuta has said, in hindsight, that he would never have signed for us or any other European giant of the day.
Yeah the “he didn’t invest in the midfield” is a bit unfair. We had terrible luck with Hargreaves and Fletcher. Anderson maybe not so much but he had a fair few injury woes of his own before it became apparent that his fitness had completely gone to pot.In 2008 Utd still had a functioning Hargreaves and the best version of Anderson. I would assume both of those were key to the future planning for the midfield. They both collapsed soon after leaving Fletcher until the Crohns kicked in. That was a major problem and by 2011 Utd had dropped off significantly.
Well they asked him many years later and he's a fio legend so he wasn't going to say yeah, I wish I'd gone to Madrid or Manchester for a shot at glory. I think he considered it at the time.
Didn't we get pretty close to closing the deal at the time?
It's hard to not get excited by the prospect of getting batigol.The press were making out it was a done deal and we were all pretty excited by it. Would have been nice to have him lead the line.
He should have left a better squad behind. I’m not buying that they had just won the league, only he could have achieved that with that squad. It should have been undeniable good, his best one yet and left it with plenty of juice in the tank. Even without hindsight we could see that Rio and Vidic were finished and their replacements although had potential were far from a sure thing. Central midfield was a retiring Scholes with Carrick and fletcher who was getting on. Strikers again both of a similar age and both at the back end of their careers, having struggled with injuries neither were a long term option. It’s not fully his fault, we were restricted in the market much more back then and the people above him should have been planning for his departure, putting better structured in place etc. but I can’t help but think he should have left the sort of squad that pretty much anyone could have won the league with.
Good post!I think people are demonstrating a complete lack of understanding in some of their suggestions here. Fergie built his teams largely on the collective working together and when people stepped out of line in his eyes they were gone. If they put themselves ahead of the team they were gone and if they were perceived to be getting bigger than the manager they were gone. If you look back on the last decade since he left we have seen how signing individuals rather than building a team doesnt work for us. He was right about Pogba that why he got rid. £90m and 6 years later we know it now too. Berbatov didn't have the work ethic, listen to Rio talking about him, thats why he faded out of the picture. People talking about not signing Hazard need only look at the character traits Hazard has shown since to see why perhaps he wasn't a Fergie player.
We had teams with players many of us didn't think were "good enough" on the pitch but its become clear they were the hardest workers and had the right character and that takes you further sometimes.
I agree that Fergie suggesting Moyes was a mistake but I would argue its not up to him to plan his own succession and the real mistake was having a situation where he was given that level of control in the first place. I think he picked Moyes in the hope that he would still be consulted whereas the likes of Mourinho was secure enough in his own status to go his own way.
The one I disagree most with here is the sale of Jaap Stam, I remember him coming back from his injury and looking like an absolute shadow of the player he was, his sale at that point looked great business to me because I thought he was finished. I dont think anyone watching him at that point could have foreseen the comeback he made in Italy to the level he got to.
I think his biggest fault is also his biggest strength. We did need bigger players at various times to kick on in Europe and I think after being burned with Veron (and to an extent Stam and Van Nistelrooy) he wasn't willing to go back for these types of big names from abroad. The other side of that coin however is that he continued to build teams that worked together with little friction and still won titles so its hard to be too critical.
That was his biggest mistake. Doing what his bosses told him.He did make many mistakes but the biggest was appeasing Glazers. We should have dominated world football after 2008 but we just gave it away. I still can't believe we replaced Ronaldo and Tevez with Valencia, Owen and Oberton. That was the start of decline.
Thank you.
Even before this thread was created. There was no doubt in my mind this was the biggest mistake Ferguson committed. I can make excuses for any of his other errors as they all made a pale comparison to this.
This however, a fallout over a silly racehorse dispute, that presented the Glazers the perfect opportunity to slid in and purchase our club. That marks the start of the decline of our club.
There is absolutely no chance we are this badly run in the present due if it weren't for those parasites and leeches.
I don't know if this one has been mentioned and it's immaterial in the scheme of things but I thought the way he fell out with Brian Kidd was unfortunate. He should have had a role at United instead of City but Fergie wouldn't even acknowledge his presence when they were in the same room.
To summerize: SAF is not a very nice man, but to be a successful manager when he was, crossing swords with people, falling out with people (Stam/Beckham/Kidd/ the BBC!) were par for the course. Things are different now - players have so much power and often need an arm around the shoulder, not a hairdryer in the face.
To summerize: SAF is not a very nice man, but to be a successful manager when he was, crossing swords with people, falling out with people (Stam/Beckham/Kidd/ the BBC!) were par for the course. Things are different now - players have so much power and often need an arm around the shoulder, not a hairdryer in the face. Its a bit like in education (my field) 20 years ago it was ok to shout a bit. But now a raised voice is very much frowned upon and in fact some schools even have 'no-shouting' policies.
Yeah the “he didn’t invest in the midfield” is a bit unfair. We had terrible luck with Hargreaves and Fletcher. Anderson maybe not so much but he had a fair few injury woes of his own before it became apparent that his fitness had completely gone to pot.
Well we had enough to win a league title in 12/13, and our “future” midfield of Anderson and Cleverley got us off to a great start in 11/12. Yes it wasn’t enough and we couldn’t count on them, but some people seem to have been peddling the line that SAF just relied on Scholes and Giggs, or even that “we never replaced Keane”. Which is far from true.We were unlucky, but at some stage it was clear we can't count on those guys anymore, and still we did nothing for years.
I think there might be some truth to the tactical side and you could see from 2006 onward how much more disciplined and structured Utd were in Europe. They also had a vastly stronger squad and this created the best European consistency in the clubs history.
The game changed though, a lot of younger supporters don't understand what football was like before the superclub era, talent was spread, squads were weaker, much harder to dominate.
Another key point for me is that outside of the Vidic/Rio years Utd never had a world class defense at European level. The 99 team had Stam, but Schmeichel and Irwin were in serious decline, Johnsen was good but brittle, Berg was a solid Pl player but not much else and Gary Neville would peak years later. Pallister and Bruce were not going to get it done at that level either for as much as I admire them.
Behaving like a bellend over some horse spunk.
He should have left a better squad behind. I’m not buying that they had just won the league, only he could have achieved that with that squad. It should have been undeniable good, his best one yet and left it with plenty of juice in the tank. Even without hindsight we could see that Rio and Vidic were finished and their replacements although had potential were far from a sure thing. Central midfield was a retiring Scholes with Carrick and fletcher who was getting on. Strikers again both of a similar age and both at the back end of their careers, having struggled with injuries neither were a long term option. It’s not fully his fault, we were restricted in the market much more back then and the people above him should have been planning for his departure, putting better structured in place etc. but I can’t help but think he should have left the sort of squad that pretty much anyone could have won the league with.
Berbatov played more minutes than tevez in 08/09.
