Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know? 
Simon Jordan on English media
- Thread starter roonster09
- Start date
Feck nothing?
Simon Jordan is usually brilliant and this is particularly brilliant.
Jordan touched on it and it is something I've wanted Mourinho to do for a while now - to one-by-one reduce his fiercest critics in the press room. They need calling out.
Jordan touched on it and it is something I've wanted Mourinho to do for a while now - to one-by-one reduce his fiercest critics in the press room. They need calling out.
This is basically it. I use to watch Sunday Supplement then realised everyone on the show knew nothing and was basically giving their opinion as fact.
As for Simon Jordon. I’ve heard him on Talksport and I pretty much agree with everything he says, which even surprised me.
Good bit. Report news, don’t create news.
"I do not know a journalist that has ever bought a football club".
Journalists aren't as rich as me, therefore they're not entitled to an opinion.
"...ever bought a player, ever sold a player, ever picked a team".
That's because they, you know, went into the profession of journalism. If they tried to apply to become a professional football manager, while this isn't impossible, the odds are stacked massively against it without having been a professional footballer.
You could say by the same token that very few footballers and football managers have written coherent articles or books about football. In fact, most of them can't write, and require journalists to write their books and articles for them, before later complaining about them.
"...have ever had any first-hand experience of football...".
That's because (a) they weren't good enough to be professional footballers, or were prevented by their bodies, or both. I'm sure most journalists would much rather be Premier League footballers than journalists, (b) they've never had the opportunity to work as a coach or manager because most of these are selected from the ranks of professional footballers, (c) they're denied the opportunity to gain first-hand access to the football 'industry' because the clubs and those who run the clubs wish to keep everything 'in-house', (d) it's necessary for journalists to train and engage in the practice of being journalists, hence the fact that they can write books, whereas footballers cannot.
He then goes on to state that journalists are allowed to have opinions, but they're not allowed to have opinions on how football clubs are run because they haven't done it. What exactly are football journalists supposed to have opinions on then? They can't have opinions on playing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on managing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on coaching because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on owners or directors because they haven't done it. If you take that to it's natural conclusion then what can they report other than the scoreline?
Furthermore, this would also mean that all of the paying punters are never allowed an opinion on anything, as none of them have played, managed, coached or owned at a professional level. It would mean that 99.9% of people who watch football worldwide can never offer an opinion on anything; presumably, we would be reduced to holding rattles and making encouraging noises, so that none of the poor people who work in professional football ever get offended.
Journalists aren't as rich as me, therefore they're not entitled to an opinion.
"...ever bought a player, ever sold a player, ever picked a team".
That's because they, you know, went into the profession of journalism. If they tried to apply to become a professional football manager, while this isn't impossible, the odds are stacked massively against it without having been a professional footballer.
You could say by the same token that very few footballers and football managers have written coherent articles or books about football. In fact, most of them can't write, and require journalists to write their books and articles for them, before later complaining about them.
"...have ever had any first-hand experience of football...".
That's because (a) they weren't good enough to be professional footballers, or were prevented by their bodies, or both. I'm sure most journalists would much rather be Premier League footballers than journalists, (b) they've never had the opportunity to work as a coach or manager because most of these are selected from the ranks of professional footballers, (c) they're denied the opportunity to gain first-hand access to the football 'industry' because the clubs and those who run the clubs wish to keep everything 'in-house', (d) it's necessary for journalists to train and engage in the practice of being journalists, hence the fact that they can write books, whereas footballers cannot.
He then goes on to state that journalists are allowed to have opinions, but they're not allowed to have opinions on how football clubs are run because they haven't done it. What exactly are football journalists supposed to have opinions on then? They can't have opinions on playing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on managing because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on coaching because they haven't done it. They can't have opinions on owners or directors because they haven't done it. If you take that to it's natural conclusion then what can they report other than the scoreline?
Furthermore, this would also mean that all of the paying punters are never allowed an opinion on anything, as none of them have played, managed, coached or owned at a professional level. It would mean that 99.9% of people who watch football worldwide can never offer an opinion on anything; presumably, we would be reduced to holding rattles and making encouraging noises, so that none of the poor people who work in professional football ever get offended.
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MUTD is a massive club that has had huge, arguably unparalleled success over the last 30 years. It's going to be shot at more than others because of that success. Newspapers and other media are agents of change; flux, confusion, change, controversy, disasters — these things sell papers and generate clicks more than anything else. They've worked it out. So when we watch TV or read newspapers and we are being blasted by headlines about disasters or confusion at MUTD or Mourinho we have take it all with a pinch of salt. Journalists are just going their job - which is to get you reading and worried. It's up to you about how you react.
@wub1234 Yeah the whole thing is a bunch of appeal to authority nonsense.
Spot bollock on. The hacks, from the papers in particular are wankers, they’ve done it since time immemorial and they’ll continue to do it, because most of them have no shame or morals in what they write, hiding their bullshit behind their “sources”
Yes there are some good honest investigative journalists out there exposing lies and corruption within organisations and governments but unfortunately they are outweighed but those that falsely accuse, lie and ruin people’s lives and reputations on seemingly a whim with little more than hearsay and unfortunately the British press are the probably the worst culprits.
Yes there are some good honest investigative journalists out there exposing lies and corruption within organisations and governments but unfortunately they are outweighed but those that falsely accuse, lie and ruin people’s lives and reputations on seemingly a whim with little more than hearsay and unfortunately the British press are the probably the worst culprits.
As I say. More often than not. Also, who is anyone who is not involved in the process to say United aren’t interested? Just because a player doesn’t come, doesn’t mean they aren’t. Too much generalising on subject of journalism.
I don’t actually think Jordan is talking much sense to be honest. Think he’s not reading things for what they are, is chucking everything in the same point pot and getting what is an opinion piece mixed with what is a factually correct, sourced news piece. How can someone present their opinion as fact and somebody not understand that it is just their opinion? Would love to see an example of what he is talking about.
Also...a bugbear of mine. When journalists are critical of people in football they are not critical because of their ability/experience but because what football people’s predecessors and peers do. If Lukaku goes around Lloris and misses the goal, he’s not being criticised because the journalist would score but because if you put most other top flight, international strikers past and present in the same situation the expectation is they would score, therefore Lukaku has underperformed.
This whole ‘they’ve never done this or that’ argument is poor by football people who think they are above being judged.
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He's absolutely right and it's not just sport journalists who are guilty of what he's talking about there with regards to journalists presenting their own opinions as facts. It's become more and more obvious on the BBC News bulletins.
Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
feck all but there comes the best part, in recent years journos even on press conferences when new managers comes, they push this how fans of that very club know a lot about football, how they arent dumb etc. This isnt a new thing about English sport section press, for me they are not even journos, at least not 99% of them, they are just bunch of people writing for a spot sections in different papers. You can find different def. what journalism is and i wouldnt be surprised that 99% doesnt fit in that description, they are disgrace to that profession. No integrity, no accountability, most research feck all about stuff they writing, they hide behind "sources" regardless of them existing or not.
Also, they became aware that there are some people there without journos school writing about football on different web sites and some of those have higher quality then the crap they writing about. It became race for survival.
Still remember Sunday Supplement from few years and how Henry Winter was yapping about City academy, how City will start giving chance of their own. Another guest he is Newcastle fan, dont know his name, went for him and shut him down. Those 2 had few more SS show together and Winter was talking same crap each time just to be shut down by the same guy. It was like listening City`s PR person.
Read the Caf, people just go with what’s written by the media as gospel.
You phrased this better than I could, but I agree with every word. This whole video just reeks of arrogance to me. I can’t believe so many are lapping this up.
One certain journalist did...
Also he excused Oliver Holt. Holt has given an opinion like many jounalists have. I usually like listening to Jordan, but it seems he only wants to call certain journalists. Maybe those who aren't friends.
Custis himself just said the other day the treatment Mourinho gets from the media is ridiculous the dopey cnut
Why is it lapping it up? Jordan makes a lot of very good points that resonate with football fans match going or not.
My issue with the media is exactly as he put it, the media report their opinion as fact. How many times have seen ready the story or headline that Jose slated the kids but when you watch the full un-edited interview your thoughts position changes because the story goes from Jose slates kid X to, Jose said Kid X is learning the game, he has a lot of good qualities and is just not ready yet.
What makes somebody like Custis, Ladyman, Winter, Holt 'Chief Football Writer' 'Expert opinion' or the 'Voice of football' Boil it down to what it is and what they are. Somebody who has gone to Unit and more than likely got a Journalism degree and who's footballing expertise extends to the Frog and Firkin on a few Sunday mornings in Autumn. Does that mean they are not entitled to an opinion? Of course not. But Eff me don't make it out as fact, don't make up one stories from two half baked stories with no facts. Their opinion piece and what they write is no more or no less valid then yours or mine, they get paid for it that's the difference.
Let's not forget these cretins and leeches exist because of clubs like Man Utd and Managers like Jose, not the other way around.
Preach
A *********** once likened them to seagulls following a trawler...
I wonder how many people who agree with this video also want Scholes to shut up.
Believe me mate, I have no great deal of love for the media. I just can’t stand the arrogance that is emanating from this guy. If we follow his logic then no one except the exact people who are doing a job should be allowed to comment on it.
Journalists are paid to give their opinions on things, that’s part of their job. This is especially poignant when journalists and bloggers make far more sense when they’re talking about football than most ex footballers do.
Obviously no one is going to know the exact inner workings of a club, but it’s not hard to believe that journalists do know more than the average person, and can give an opinion.
Shit journalists exist because people listen to them, and share links to their tweets and articles. If you think a journalist is no good, stop posting their stories across the Internet just to moan about how shit they are. You're giving them the exposure and the clicks they need to stay in business.
Happened to catch this live.... a lot of the time it's clickbait radio and I wouldn't listen to Adrian Durham (nob) but sometimes it's good and Simon Jordan will say what he thinks (been there, done it). Few callers having a go at media and he agreed, though also said Jose in the wrong too.... probably right, at least balanced.
Well if Jose uses the Media to his own advantage by purposefully highlighting players for public execution - you can't expect the same not happen to him when the tide changes. Poor sod asking for respect 
The stuff that Jose talks about is far from just pure football - especially when he starts sidelining a player. No wonder with him that journalists make up stories - so easy to do so with the way he works.
The stuff that Jose talks about is far from just pure football - especially when he starts sidelining a player. No wonder with him that journalists make up stories - so easy to do so with the way he works.
It's United, we sell ... papers, clicks, etc?
An hour after the Spurs game, the BBc Sport page had four stories about United .... Four out of six.
So out of all the sport in the world, they felt United/Jose needed four stories. BBC are getting worse and doing exactly what Simon Jordan said.... stating comments as fact, putting 2 and 2 together and saying it's 53.
Jose didn't help himself (as Simon Jordan said, he should have kept them there hours... maybe talked for an hour on one simple question, they'd soon feck off) but theres hardly any journalists today who deserve the title. They're not journalistsz they're shock jocks with no ability to find, research and tell a real story.
Very flawed point from Mr Jordan. Since when did you need to own or manage a club to be able to report properly on both issues? The media circus around Mourinho and United is nothing different from what the media generally do, dare I say...everywhere. They're feeding on us cos we're creating the news. Lots of former players and managers are asking similar questions. Hate Jose all you want but they can't create stories from nothing. If the club was full of positive vibes, the media can't report otherwise. They didn't like SAF much if I recall, but he knew how to play them like a fiddle. And his results kept their mouths shut. Jose had this same circus in Spain. I don't recall Mr Jordan schooling the Spanish press. He's courted controversy everywhere he's gone Jose. The difference is the results aren't there to back him up anymore. The feeding frenzy is as predictable as they come...
That was absolutely spot on from Jordan.
Even less.Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
And if we're going to follow the OP's logic through, nobody in this thread should be able to criticise any journalist.
Did you miss the most part of the video where he specifically said everyone should have his own opinions and the right to write about it as what journalists do, but these journalists made them out as "FACTS" therefore it being the problem.
Edit: “A journalist’s job in my view is to give an objective opinion, not to write what they think is a fact and to represent it as fact and to create news, rather than to report news."
Since Twitter became the main way most people consume football news it’s given these journalists an illusion of grandeur and authority over the English game. They state their opinions as fact and the agendas they have at times is ridiculous and it influences people to think differently about situations.
Well said
Again, very well said
Well, the vast majority of fans don't have financially motivated opinions...Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
Wait, if journalists know feck all.............what does us fans know?
Luckily Fans opinions are not published as facts.
He contradicted himself so many times during this scattergun rant that what he was saying was completely incoherent.
It's one thing to state that opinions shouldn't be presented as facts, but then he also said that Mourinho should have sat in the press conference for hours berating the press for not being as experienced as him.
What is this if not an appeal to authority, and an advocation of pure arrogance?
After slating the media, Jordan then has a moment of self-awareness and realises that he himself works in the media, so then attempts to separate himself from other people in the media by asserting that when he gives his opinion in the media it's from a position of experience because he's owned a football club. So it's another appeal to authority.
The guy is a prize c*ck, he's talking out of his backside, and it's quite pathetic that he thinks someone who earns £15 million per year should be inured from all criticism.
If Mourinho doesn't like his treatment in the media (and I bet he never for one second complains about, or even considers, the fact that the media coverage of football is primarily responsible for his salary) then he can quit. No-one is holding a gun to his head and forcing him to be the manager of Manchester United. Get down the Lisbon job centre, and see if you can find another position that pays £15 million per annum.
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He's completely correct, the fans also have a duty of care not to fling shit around with the monkeys though. Stop giving them oxygen.
Journos can feck off. That is one of live's absolute truth. They think they're too important
Surely Jordan's point is not that you need to have been professionally involved with football to have an opinion, but that your opinion will only be an opinion, not an objective fact. He is criticising the deliberate conflation of opinion pieces with factual reporting which creates media narrative driven events rather than accurate reporting. Unless I'm really misunderstanding the man, he is not saying that journalists cannot have an opinion.
There is a large dose of truth in what you are saying. But what separates sports journos for me from other journos who report on “real” news is that they seem to receive a lot of credence based solely on their opinions and estimations, rather than on facts. I mean, do their editors challenge them on source, verifying facts and the like? I will be the first to admit that I fall for click bait, simply because given the state of the club currently, I want to know every little tidbit about why the club is seemingly run the way we are. There is little truth to the reports I suspect, but I still click.