Good point. I think its all down to selecting players who were either the wrong choices to begin with, as in several of the European choices above, or in the cases where we did make appropriate selections, they may have not had the temperament to be long term United players. Di Maria, Tevez, and Heinze were the correct players in terms of talent and skill, but were unfortunately mercenaries who were more interested in making money by bouncing between clubs than by staying in one place.
Should we just stop buying South American Players? | oops
- Thread starter devilish
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Good point. I think its all down to selecting players who were either the wrong choices to begin with, as in several of the European choices above, or in the cases where we did make appropriate selections, they may have not had the temperament to be long term United players. Di Maria, Tevez, and Heinze were the correct players in terms of talent and skill, but were unfortunately mercenaries who were more interested in making money by bouncing between clubs than by staying in one place.
Precisely.
Now here's another list:
Aguero
Poyet
Gilberto Silva
Juninho
Alexis Sanchez
Zabaleta
Solano
Valencia
Suarez
They all have two things in common - adapted well to the premier league and longevity.
Its ludicrous to suggest we stop buying Latin Americans because of some mythical innate phobia of Manchester's climate and culture (Juninho spent years living in Middlesborough ffs, I would have given him a Nobel Prize for that achievement alone). Look at the dozens of Latin Americans who've played/play in Russia and Ukraine, Shaktar would pretty much be obsolete without them.
Yes, we definitely missed the boat with Alexis and Aguero. Should've jumped in when we had the chance.
An argument could also be made for percentages. For every bad European player, im sure theres been at least one good one (Schmeichel, VDS, Cantona, Ruud, etc)
Also do we count Zaha as European?
Which S.A has been a success for us?
Of course, im not saying we should stop buying them haha. If Messi, Aguero, Neymar became available, we would take them. Just that our record with Europeans is better as opposed to S.Americans.
We have had Uruguayan, Colombian, Brazilian and Ecuadorian players some worked out on the pitch and some didn't but by and large none of them seemed unsettled at United or in Manchester.
Argentine players on the other hand for whatever reason just seem to not settle at United.
Veron - Brilliant player just never showed just how good he was for us. Seemed professional and didn't complain but you have to wonder if he ever really settled.
Heinze - Good player at first, but Ferguson said he asked to leave every year he was here right up to the point where he tried to force a move to liverpool.
Tevez - Good on the pitch for the most part, but famously hated manchester. Couldn't wait to leave United and did so at first opportunity moved to City for money and then tried to leave there for years as well.
Di Maria - Great at the start but became quickly apparent he couldn't be arsed and didn't want to be here, now he's running off to france to play in a shit league.
Rojo - actually seems happy enough though who knows, so did Tevez and Heinze at one point.
So we definitely shouldn't avoid SA players in general but i do think we should look deeper into the background of the next Argentine player we consider signing to make sure they aren't a cnut like Tevez/Heinze or a spineless gimp like Di Maria.
Argentine players on the other hand for whatever reason just seem to not settle at United.
Veron - Brilliant player just never showed just how good he was for us. Seemed professional and didn't complain but you have to wonder if he ever really settled.
Heinze - Good player at first, but Ferguson said he asked to leave every year he was here right up to the point where he tried to force a move to liverpool.
Tevez - Good on the pitch for the most part, but famously hated manchester. Couldn't wait to leave United and did so at first opportunity moved to City for money and then tried to leave there for years as well.
Di Maria - Great at the start but became quickly apparent he couldn't be arsed and didn't want to be here, now he's running off to france to play in a shit league.
Rojo - actually seems happy enough though who knows, so did Tevez and Heinze at one point.
So we definitely shouldn't avoid SA players in general but i do think we should look deeper into the background of the next Argentine player we consider signing to make sure they aren't a cnut like Tevez/Heinze or a spineless gimp like Di Maria.
I could list 20 English players who didn't make the grade, should we stop buying English players?
I don't think there's anything to it. We just happened to have selected specific players who were not appropriate for long term careers at United. Rojo may well break that and certainly the likes of Zabaleta and Aguero have been successful at City, which completely undermines the idea of South Americans not being up for it in Manchester.
Yeah that was the gist of what i was trying to say, probably got lost in my long winded post.
We need to look deep into these players backgrounds, i'm not sure we did that with Di Maria, Heinze, Tevez etc.
And yeah Aguero and Zabaleta seem happy at City which proves it's not just a nationality thing. If we sign Otamendi and Romero heres hoping they work out better for us.
A substantial amount of English players did made the grade though. Cant say the same about SA players
Oh maybe I am just pissed off with what's happening with ADM.
The point is you can find South American players who have been successful in the Prem - Aguero, Suarez, Alexis, Zabaleta, and various others. We just didn't select the correct players, which has nothing to do with this half baked hypothesis that South Americans can't make it at United.
One of our key SA player, Tevez, obviously had issues at United AND City, which just goes to show we gambled and lost with him.
No. I want us to buy Otamendi, he could become a massive success.
We've had 2 managers who are rated amongst the best in the world and yet they weren't able to select the 'correct' SA players.
Tevez is a mercenary. There's no other way to say it unfortunately
No. The best footballers in the world tend to be South American.
Back in the 80s-90s you would be right. Nowadays there's only Messi, Suarez and Neymar who are truly world class. The strongest national teams are Germany and Spain
A bit simplistic. Falcao and AdM were universally regarded as top players, as was Tevez, and for that matter Veron. Each of them previously and/or subsequently were successful, but may have not been appropriate for us - which obviously has absolutely nothing to do with geography and everything to do with performance, attitude, and a variety of other relevant factors.
I don't think we can say not buy another South American, even though they mostly haven't worked out for us. Might be a start though to buy no more players from Mendes - Falcao and ADM have both been a big expensive mess.
I think south american players definitely find it much harder to settle in england.
The younger players i think find it much easier, if you look at the likes of rafael, fabio and anderson, manchester is/was probably like home to them.
The younger players i think find it much easier, if you look at the likes of rafael, fabio and anderson, manchester is/was probably like home to them.
Veron was a destroyer in Italy. He was absolutely sublime, a joy to watch and just bossed games from the off. His style of play should have been suited to the Prem, but he just couldn't adjust to not having any time on the ball. He showed his talent on numerous occasions but sadly, not enough. Hopefully Rojo can show he is different, and would love to see Otamendi playing for United.
Tarring them all with the same brush now are we?
I think its more about the football culture than the geography itself. SAF was never able to take the best out of SA players and LVG doesn't seem to have a great reputation with SA players either
The weather doesn't help.
Tarring them all with the same brush now are we?
Please read the other posts. It does help at times. I am sure that if I said something remotely racist I would have been rightfully been banned by either Raoul or Golden blunder who are among the best admins/mods this forum ever had
I still think Forlan would have succeeded here.
Ass kisser.
No.
Regarding Veron it was the ADM syndrome rather than anything else. Few months after he signed for us he was already in Rome (I remember SAF gave him a holiday to boil off) bitching of how much he miss Italy and how he wish to one day return there
not really. I got bans from both of them I think. Its just I've been here long enough to know which lines not to cross and to build an opinion on the mods/admins. Racism is (and rightfully so) not tolerated in here.
Honestly I cant understand your argument. We waited up until 2015 to buy the first German and the first Italian whose good enough to be first team material. Its evident that we ignored those leagues as we didn't find their players compatible to our style. What's wrong if we do the same with SA players (for the same reason)?
Bayern stopped to buy players direct from South America as that nearly never functioned.
But the ones that we buy from clubs in Germany that have already proved themselves in the league were always a success...
But the ones that we buy from clubs in Germany that have already proved themselves in the league were always a success...
I would prefer us to target the best Europeans personally. Those types of players from the Northern and Eastern nations like France, Germany, Holland, etc, would find the club more appealing than that of a Latin player also seeing as they wouldn't have to acclimatise to climates and cultures that differ substantially, while also being more suited to the Premier League.
Of course, if a quality player is available, the profile of player the club are targeting and in a position we need then we should look to acquire them. Ultimately, it is about adding to your team with the best possible players. I just can't see Latin players have the same loyalty to the club, as a lot of them perceive Barcelona and Madrid as the pinnacle of world football and most won't acclimatise nearly as well as the vast majority of European players.
I think my main concern would be taking on Jorge Mendes clients. That guy is such a snake and will hold no affiliation to any club whatsoever, just interested in making as much money through transfers and agent fees as humanly possible.
Of course, if a quality player is available, the profile of player the club are targeting and in a position we need then we should look to acquire them. Ultimately, it is about adding to your team with the best possible players. I just can't see Latin players have the same loyalty to the club, as a lot of them perceive Barcelona and Madrid as the pinnacle of world football and most won't acclimatise nearly as well as the vast majority of European players.
I think my main concern would be taking on Jorge Mendes clients. That guy is such a snake and will hold no affiliation to any club whatsoever, just interested in making as much money through transfers and agent fees as humanly possible.
maybe I should've been a little clearer that it was a joke.
Haha, maybe. You're in Malta then? Weather nice today?
I think a prime Veron would do much better nowadays in the premiership than the early 00s.
Think he came a couple years too early.
Think he came a couple years too early.
Yes and they're the best players on the planet. Can't close our doors to them.
Hence why I said
Considering this negative record should we call it a day and opt signing players from other parts of world instead of them (when possible)?
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If a player is that good than we should sign him irrespective of where he comes from. However if there are two players of equal talent than Id rather see us sign a Dutch or a French player than a Brazilian or an Argentinian. They seem to adapt more to our game than the latter do
The more we sign the more will adapt, and the more we'll get identifying the ones that will work, and how to make them work.
Heinze was really good for us btw. Rafael's probems were injuries.
I don't really that its the case. It seems that they have a different philosophy than ours
What is our philosophy?
If we stop signing South American players we could easily miss out on the next Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc