Should we consider selling Pogba?

He's so frustrating cause he just oozes class, yet doesn't seem to have the ability to dominate games and take hold of a midfield battle.

Look at Kampl of RB Leipzig against Atletico. Doesn't have the qualities of Pogba, but ran the show in midfield. Thiago is another top class operator and dominated midfield against Barcelona. Is Pogba not as talented as these guys? And look at how Thiago has developed his defensive side too. He was very much a forward thinking player at Barcelona, now he's the complete midfield maestro.

Now I'm not saying we should sell Pogba and buy Kampl, or be looking to bring in Thiago given his age and likely wage demands, but shouldn't we be seeing our 'best' player producing displays like this when it matters the most?

This deep role doesn't suit him, never has. But the question then is whether or not he's better than Bruno in an advanced role. I don't think so. Therefore, is he now as important as we believe in this set up? He's not doing well enough defensively in midfield, he's not dictating play and controlling games either. His attacking output lately hasn't been great either. So what exactly is he doing in our midfield at the moment, given the level of ability we know he has?

It's often been discussed that he's a luxury player, and I think we're seeing this now. He needs to improve his contribution to the game in a positional and off the ball sense, both defensively and offensively, if he's ever going to be the player we want to see for us in midfield. Problem is, we've been saying this for the last 4 seasons. When is it going to click?
 
GiddyUp said:
Best penalty taker in the team you fool you. I know you love Pogba but that's a fecking ridiculous thing to say. Now your agenda is really fecking clear.
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I love Paul no more than you love Fernandes idiot.

Nothing will change my opinion on the fact he should not have been given penalties right away and the issues from that will only rare its head in the long run.


Withnail said:
This is nonsense. Once he was put on them and continued slotting them away to change to another player who has a lower success rate makes no sense.

For all we know, this was discussed internally and the players all agreed Bruno should continue. You're making an issue out of a non-issue

The players all seem happy and there's no evidence of disharmony within the group.
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It does make sense and that is the way it should be. Once Rashford missed another then he could have been rotated in.

I hope so but we will see.
 
For us to sell him there would need to be a buyer who is cash rich, and we'd need to have a quality replacement lined up. I don't think we have either this summer so it's a non-starter.

On the whole, I wouldn't be gutted to see him leave providing there's a quality replacement available. He has some qualities, but he has poor habits that he has not ironed out of his game - he loses the the ball right in front of our defence when pressed, he regularly tries to dribble past 2 or 3 players and loses the ball in dangerous areas because of it, and his general decision making/short range passing is inconsistent resulting in him losing possession too often.

In fact, I think the only part of his game that is consistently good is his long range passing.

At the moment we're a far better team with him in it because he has quality on the ball in midfield that our others lack, but that quality comes in fits and starts.

I'm also sceptical we're actually playing him in his best position. Although he's been here years it feels like we've never actually seen him given a consistent run in a free attacking midfield role. He should be getting double figures for goals and assists bare minimum every season, at the moment a lot of his game is wasted playing this deep, and more risky because he loses the ball in more dangerous areas. Now we have Fernandes for this role, we're not going to get to see whether Pogba can flourish playing higher up the field every week over an extended period.
 
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Clermontois said:
I love Paul no more than you love Fernandes idiot.

Nothing will change my opinion on the fact he should not have been given penalties right away and the issues from that will only rare its head in the long run.



It does make sense and that is the way it should be. Once Rashford missed another then he could have been rotated in.

I hope so but we will see.
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Why is that the way it should be?

Is it written in a magic book?

The best decision is the one in which means the best chance for a positive result.

What if we swapped in Rashford, he missed a pen, we didn't win one of our games and we didn't make top 4?

Ole would have looked like a mug.
 
Tricky one, is the team ever going to be good enough to cover his flaws? Been here 4 years and yet to see a standout season from him that makes me go “wow, do anything to keep him here”, even if his numbers looked good last season.
 
What if we need to sell Pogba to part finance Sancho and also get Grealish. Is everyone OK with that?
 
JG3001 said:
Tricky one, is the team ever going to be good enough to cover his flaws? Been here 4 years and yet to see a standout season from him that makes me go “wow, do anything to keep him here”, even if his numbers looked good last season.
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Why are Pogba's flaws the focus, do we do the same for other players? Juventus had no issue reaching the CL final with Pogba, France had no issue reaching the Euro final or win the WC with him and his flaws. People should focus on the rest of the team made of players that have barely played in the CL and have done nothing during their careers, then we can focus on Pogba when we have a good team and Pogba is the weak link.
 
JPRouve said:
Why are Pogba's flaws the focus, do we do the same for other players? Juventus had no issue reaching the CL final with Pogba, France had no issue reaching the Euro final or win the WC with him and his flaws. People should focus on the rest of the team made of players that have barely played in the CL and have done nothing during their careers, then we can focus on Pogba when we have a good team and Pogba is the weak link.
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So basically make more new excuses for Pogba?
 
He'sRaldo said:
That's how the club has been.

Buy a poacher in Lukaku and play him with his back to goal, then blame him and ship him out. Buy a young striker in Martial and play him left wing, then blame him and want to ship him out. Buy a superb AM in Mata and play him on the RW, then blame him. Buy LCM Pogba and play him at DM, then blame him and want to ship him out.

It's gotten really tiring. Can't we just slot a player into his best role and play him there to excel? Must it always be backwards?
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United are experts at misusing players
 
sammsky1 said:
So basically make more new excuses for Pogba?
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No. Don't talk about the team never being good enough to cover for a player when the team is made of players that have done nothing in their careers at the exception of that one player, it's just weird.
 
Withnail said:
Messi aswell?

I've heard Grealish can also play CM, does anyone know how true that is?
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I don't think Grealish is a game changing attacking midfielder at the top level. His skills might be better suited to converting to deep lying playmaker, but it would require a change in mentality. Similar issue as with Pogba, in his post Juve career every manager he has had eventually wanting to use him in a more orthodox midfield role, but Grealish is levels below Pogba as a talent.
 
JPRouve said:
No. Don't talk about the team never being good enough to cover for a player when the team is made of players that have done nothing in their careers at the exception of that one player, it's just weird.
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Matic and Bruno, the other members of the current midfield have great CVs :confused:
 
kouroux said:
I've never seen a player discussed like this in my entire life.
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It s inevitable. He s arguably the most famous/popular/marketable player we have.
Also his agent makes sure he s always in the news through his controversial comments in the media
 
sammsky1 said:
Matic and Bruno, the other members of the current midfield have great CVs :confused:
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Bruon doesn't have a great CV. Matic has a decent one but he is actually a great example on people focus, he has been subpar and extremely inconsistent for the better part of the last 2 years and he has flaws too like every players on earth. But you know I actually don't have an issue with that pairing they were the only good thing in 2017-2018, outside of De Gea, people should focus on what is around them Bruno has added quality which has clearly made us better but our wings need to imrprove offensively.

To make it simple De Gea, Matic and Pogba have played at the highest level with Pogba the one that played at the highest with Juventus and France. Bruno, Maguire, Lindelof, Wan Bissaka, Shaw, Martial, Rashford and Greenwoord have barely played at the highest level, they have barely played CL football, they have barely performed at the highest level of international level and they are the ones that need to show that they can do it. Keep in mind that Bruno has played 6 CL games in his career and our captain 0 but people question the CL finalist.
 
Bobski said:
I don't think Grealish is a game changing attacking midfielder at the top level. His skills might be better suited to converting to deep lying playmaker, but it would require a change in mentality. Similar issue as with Pogba, in his post Juve career every manager he has had eventually wanting to use him in a more orthodox midfield role, but Grealish is levels below Pogba as a talent.
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I wasn't being entirely serious.

I don't consider this thread to be based on a serious topic to be perfectly honest.
 
JPRouve said:
Why are Pogba's flaws the focus, do we do the same for other players? Juventus had no issue reaching the CL final with Pogba, France had no issue reaching the Euro final or win the WC with him and his flaws. People should focus on the rest of the team made of players that have barely played in the CL and have done nothing during their careers, then we can focus on Pogba when we have a good team and Pogba is the weak link.
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Well you pointing out Juventus & France is kinda my point. He had an excellent team around him that did the mopping up whilst he could play his own game. I agree, first and foremost we should be improving the players around him. But if we can’t, then it’s difficult to see how he will ever flourish at United.
 
JG3001 said:
Well you pointing out Juventus & France is kinda my point. He had an excellent team around him that did the mopping up whilst he could play his own game. I agree, first and foremost we should be improving the players around him. But if we can’t, then it’s difficult to see how he will ever flourish at United.
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But isn't that the goal for United have an excellent team? That should be our focus as fans because no players is flawless, only excellent teams actually hide effectively their players flaws and even then there is often a need for tactical changes like Real Madrid switching to a midfield three with Casemiro behind Kroos and Modric instead of having them in a midfield two or with one of them as a DM.
 
romufc said:
This is an example of choosing data to suit the narrative. You pick the season where Pogba has been injured and Thiago played more games.

A 29 year old is not an upgrade to a 27 year old who is playing well for the club. What does Thiago bring that Pogba doesnt?
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Regarding being injury prone: Yes it is from this season, its the most relevant season is it not? Since it's an indicator of how their bodies are holding up here and now.

What Thiago does better: More control of the game, moves the ball better, better decision making, better technique, better dribbling,better defensively.

Thiago starts for Bayern Munich the best team in Europe right now. I don't think Pogba gets into this Bayern team.
 
Clermontois said:
I do not care enough to have an agenda against Fernandes. He should not be on penalties before other players. The seniority and team is what matters more. Take Vidal for instance he took penalties at Juventus then he went to Bayern and wanted to take them there as well but senior players said no.

That is how football is and the wider world is I can only see what Ole did with Maguire in making him a captain so soon as well as with Fernandes and penalties causing an issue in the long run.The way Lindelof argued with Fernandes looked like he was telling him to know his place. I wonder why anyone would have to say that to a new player.


Jog on sourdough.


Yes he should not be, Marcus Rashford and Paul were out injured when he came in so he took them, fair enough. But once Rashford came back though they should have been his.
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This is idiotic. He is by far our best penalty-taker, maybe the best in the world on it (one of a very few who has a record of 90%+).

But hey, let's leave the pens to Phil Jones cause he is the most senior player on the squad.
 
Honestly, Paul Pogba has not developed in the way I thought he would. Around 2016, I genuinely though that this guy could become the next Lothar Matthaus. That’s how much I rated him. He seemingly had everything necessary to become a world class box-to-box midfielder.

The thing is, he hasn’t really worked on his flaws at all. He lacks awareness, he is defensively very suspect, and his decision making is very questionable. He also lacks the mobility to play as a 10 against elite opposition (Bruno is better than him in that role).

He’s still a good player mind you, but hasn’t really lived up to the hype. He’s 27 now, so in all likelihood the player we are seeing now is him at his peak.
 
It's simply idiotic to give the responsibility of taking penalties to the senior most player. Last year it would have been Jones, followed by Smalling and Young etc.
You always give the job to the best man. Bruno has not missed a penalty for United up to now. I think it goes back a few years since he missed one.
Pogba is a very talented player but football is a team game and if he doesn't contribute as much as it's possible then it's better to sell him and get a player that contributes to the team more.
He is not as good as Bruno playing up front. He is not as good as Matic in playing the DM. So he is playing in the only position available in midfield. I think we need to drop a forward and get Fred into midfield if we are to get the best use of Pogba.
Or else better sell him. I wouldn't mind Grealish and Sancho if we sell Pogba.
 
JPRouve said:
Why are Pogba's flaws the focus, do we do the same for other players? Juventus had no issue reaching the CL final with Pogba, France had no issue reaching the Euro final or win the WC with him and his flaws. People should focus on the rest of the team made of players that have barely played in the CL and have done nothing during their careers, then we can focus on Pogba when we have a good team and Pogba is the weak link.
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We've had many star players who didn't set the world alight after coming to us, so it seems fair to discuss Paul impact as well. Pogba was a part of two successful teams, yes. Whether he was the key element is hard to tell - Herrera is now on his way to CL final without being outstanding player.

It is reasonable to expect him to be the game changer, but it doesn't seem to me like he is that influential in this team.
 
Borys said:
It is reasonable to expect him to be the game changer, but it doesn't seem to me like he is that influential in this team.
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Short memory. He's influenced a lot of games, but only so much you can do at DM.

The way people talk, it's like the abysmal first half of the season has been completely wiped from memory. But it's to be expected; in football the last game is the only one that maters.
 
I dont mind Pogba but cant stand his agent, Wish we never sign any of his players for the way he took away Haaland from us. People can say he joined dortmund as they play attacking football but I still believe Haaland was OK to join us until Riola steps in
 
Borys said:
We've had many star players who didn't set the world alight after coming to us, so it seems fair to discuss Paul impact as well. Pogba was a part of two successful teams, yes. Whether he was the key element is hard to tell - Herrera is now on his way to CL final without being outstanding player.

It is reasonable to expect him to be the game changer, but it doesn't seem to me like he is that influential in this team.
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Herrera has been shit for PSG and barely played, so i'm not sure why you mention him. And Pogba has been a game changer for us, in fact he has been our best outfield player since 2016, the question should be why haven't we been succesful and the answer is clearly about the rest of the team, surely you can see that?
 
He'sRaldo said:
Short memory. He's influenced a lot of games, but only so much you can do at DM.

The way people talk, it's like the abysmal first half of the season has been completely wiped from memory. But it's to be expected; in football the last game is the only one that maters.
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That's important point in this discussion though, how are we planing to use him. If he is to be DM, or even deep lying CM with lots of defensive duties, might as well replace him with better fit. I don't question his offensive contribution pal, but since we have Bruno who is clearly superior to him in attacking role, his role is now much different.
 
I think we should consider selling him and getting someone in with a totally different attitude. However, I do think the possibility is there for him to still become a great player for us.
 
JPRouve said:
Herrera has been shit for PSG and barely played, so i'm not sure why you mention him. And Pogba has been a game changer for us, in fact he has been our best outfield player since 2016, the question should be why haven't we been succesful and the answer is clearly about the rest of the team, surely you can see that?
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He HAS been a game changer when he played higher up behind the attack, clearly now he will be second choice to Bruno, so his role in the team has to be taken into consideration.

We also have the best players we've had in years, a lot of goals in this team whether Pogba plays or not IMO. I don't see your point, you sound like Pogba flaws should not be discussed just because he's most decorated player in our squad.
 
Borys said:
That's important point in this discussion though, how are we planing to use him. If he is to be DM, or even deep lying CM with lots of defensive duties, might as well replace him with better fit. I don't question his offensive contribution pal, but since we have Bruno who is clearly superior to him in attacking role, his role is now much different.
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DM is definitely not ideal long term. Not because he's subpar defensively (it's improving and now quite solid) but because he's shackled in attack. He's playing in that position because he's the best we have there.

As for Bruno, how has he proven to be a clearly superior attacker?

And the follow up question is, would it be better to get a more defensive midfielder to replace Pogba and then play Bruno as the sole creator (remember we don't have attacking wingbacks or natural wingers), or do we play Pogba and someone else as attacking threats from midfield in a more balanced formation not based on a no. 10?
 
JPRouve said:
But isn't that the goal for United have an excellent team? That should be our focus as fans because no players is flawless, only excellent teams actually hide effectively their players flaws and even then there is often a need for tactical changes like Real Madrid switching to a midfield three with Casemiro behind Kroos and Modric instead of having them in a midfield two or with one of them as a DM.
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Yes it should always be the aim, my concern is with the money wasted up till now, it’s sell before we buy. Freeing up some deadwood wages will help cover a couple signings but beyond that I’m not so sure. Need a few more academy lads to come good.
 
IAmAWinner said:
Delete this thread. He's our best player.
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Pogba is a very good player he could be the best in his position. But he has not done it consistently for utd.
It is a team game and whilst I think Rudd was a better player than Saha, I think the team was better served by Saha. He worked for the team created space for other players and helped the way utd wanted to play.
Sometimes the player can drag the other players with them and other times the player overshadows the team and stifles it. Pogba has not been the player we all hoped for, Fernandes in the short time has had a greater effect on the club than the time Pogba has. I would be happy to sell if we could get the money back that he cost and that they invested the money into the squad.
 
Borys said:
He HAS been a game changer when he played higher up behind the attack, clearly now he will be second choice to Bruno, so his role in the team has to be taken into consideration.

We also have the best players we've had in years, a lot of goals in this team whether Pogba plays or not IMO. I don't see your point, you sound like Pogba flaws should not be discussed just because he's most decorated player in our squad.
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No, he has been a game changer under Mourinho in a double pivot with Matic, Pogba has barely played higher up at United anyway. Why do you think he ended up in PFA team of the year in 2017/20018 when he absolutely didn't play higher up the pitch?
 
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