Should we consider selling Pogba?

[Achilles McCool]

For the record I thought he did OK today.

what were you watching? Saw this in his performance thread:

Embarrassing from him.

 

[pawanraj]

There are a lot of fair criticisms you could aim at Pogba but this seems a strange take.

24-28 is peak physical condition for a footballer generally? The point I was trying to make is that
1) His output at Juve and ManUtd seems similar (and thus pointing to his time at Juve as being worldclass is a bit misleading)
2) We should be seeing an improvement in his output from Juve (If he hasn't peaked yet, he should be getting better in the last 4 years) but stats don't bear that out.

As regards his position, At this point I don't even know what the CAF consensus is on his best position. People defending his lack of impact have called him a #10 being played out of position, a CM, a deep lying midfielder and everything in between.

The point is not to judge Pogba, only to point out that his time as Juve didn't seem as amazing as it is made out. (For the record, my thoughts on Pogba are less than complimentary and have been echoed on this forum before by posters better than me).

I did mention that I will hunt for his passing stats, goals + assists is what I have to measure output right now, and I suspect his passing stats will be similar too - but I'll be the first to hold my hand up if I find they aren't.

I'm probably going to run out of posts (hah! newbie!) but I will pick this up if I find more stats in the next few hours.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Probably not worth it for us under the current climate.

I'd sell for a good offer, but I don't think the clubs have the cash to pay that.

 

[clarkydaz]

Have we not come full circle, in the blowout with jose was it not due to his lack of discipline and defensive duties?

Ole came in played him further forward in the 433. He looked great, we looked good. Ole got the job and went defensive. Just seems a waste of what he is, and also suspect to our team shape

 

[Icemav]

Have we not come full circle, in the blowout with jose was it not due to his lack of discipline and defensive duties?

Ole came in played him further forward in the 433. He looked great, we looked good. Ole got the job and went defensive. Just seems a waste of what he is, and also suspect to our team shape

'Well said. Its really pretty simple.

Pogba is becoming another saga. Such a distraction. The club should either play him in his best (only?) position or sell him and strengthen in crucial areas.

I mean he came on against Spurs an won a brilliant penalty on the opponents byline. He would never now find himself in that position but 30 yards behind the play.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

'Well said. Its really pretty simple.

Pogba is becoming another saga. Such a distraction. The club should either play him in his best (only?) position or sell him and strengthen in crucial areas.

I mean he came on against Spurs an won a brilliant penalty on the opponents byline. He would never now find himself in that position but 30 yards behind the play.

He played with Bruno in that game against Spurs though.

Just because he's not the most advanced of the three, doesn't mean he's completely shackled and unable to break forward.

And Bruno is better than Pogba in an advanced role.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I do believe that "he was world class at Juve" is less a function of his brilliance, and more a function of the fact that Juve won the league. Juve would have won the league without him too, in my opinion.

I just want to leave some stats here.
Juventus - 4 seasons (2012-2016) - 166 apps (142 starts) - 32 goals, 27 assists
Manutd - 4 seasons (2016-2020) - 165 apps (144 starts) - 32 goals 32 assists

His output at both Juve and Utd seems similar. Fbref doesn't have his Juve stats but if I find them I will do some work to figure out how his passing / play at Juve compares to his passing / play at Manchester United, but I suspect it would be similar.

The thing is though, we got Pogba when he was supposed to be at his peak, and we should be seeing better numbers, not similar to what he was doing at Juve.

The problem with Pogba here in Man Utd wasn't his stats, its mostly just his inconsistency and lack of motivation/effectiveness/attitude as shown on the pitch. For a midfielder, or deep lying playmaker, I don't think stats is important at all. Just take a look at Xavi, Ineista and Modric. Their stats isn't anything special at all.

 

[clarkydaz]

He played with Bruno in that game against Spurs though.

Just because he's not the most advanced of the three, doesn't mean he's completely shackled and unable to break forward.

And Bruno is better than Pogba in an advanced role.

He came on last 25 mins when we were 1 nil down chasing that game. We are in kitchen sink mode then.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He came on last 25 mins when we were 1 nil down chasing that game. We are in kitchen sink mode then.

I know, but he's not shackled and unable to break forward just because Bruno is more advanced than him.

 

[reddevilz007]

Yes

Sell him if it means you can get Aouar and Partey, with an extra 15 millions to get those deals done if needed

In this climate of pandemic, 75 mil would actually be a fair price for Pogba as he hasn’t shown he is worth more from the past season and his current form

 

[Sing you a song]

'Well said. Its really pretty simple.

Pogba is becoming another saga. Such a distraction. The club should either play him in his best (only?) position or sell him and strengthen in crucial areas.

I mean he came on against Spurs an won a brilliant penalty on the opponents byline. He would never now find himself in that position but 30 yards behind the play.

The problem is his “ best position “ is the forward midfield player behind the strikers however this is where Bruno is also at his best and you could not possibly choose Pogba ahead of Bruno .
Yesterday was a classic example both in my view played poorly however Bruno still got an assist and a goal whereas Pogbas’s performance can only be remembered fir constantly giving the ball away .
If you are to have Bruno pushed forward you need one defensive MF ( matic: mctominay ) to keep things tight and one high energy runner ( VDB / Fred ) in there .
In my view Pogba is now a squad player as back up to Bruno or to play in cup games .
He should be used as bait to swap for a top class forward

 

[Pablo18th]

Seriously whats peoples problems with him????

He is our best player.

Having had no pre season and recovered from virus approx 10 days ago people want to sell him.

Its a joke!

He is not even our best midfielder.

 

[Pablo18th]

24-28 is peak physical condition for a footballer generally? The point I was trying to make is that
1) His output at Juve and ManUtd seems similar (and thus pointing to his time at Juve as being worldclass is a bit misleading)
2) We should be seeing an improvement in his output from Juve (If he hasn't peaked yet, he should be getting better in the last 4 years) but stats don't bear that out.

As regards his position, At this point I don't even know what the CAF consensus is on his best position. People defending his lack of impact have called him a #10 being played out of position, a CM, a deep lying midfielder and everything in between.

The point is not to judge Pogba, only to point out that his time as Juve didn't seem as amazing as it is made out. (For the record, my thoughts on Pogba are less than complimentary and have been echoed on this forum before by posters better than me).

I did mention that I will hunt for his passing stats, goals + assists is what I have to measure output right now, and I suspect his passing stats will be similar too - but I'll be the first to hold my hand up if I find they aren't.

I'm probably going to run out of posts (hah! newbie!) but I will pick this up if I find more stats in the next few hours.

Number 1 is down to him being part of a great team, everyone including the supporting cast gets plaudits if a team goes on an amazing run. However, he's not the player that makes those around him better which what we expect from him I guess, Bruno seems to fit that profile for us.

 

[Icemav]

I know, but he's not shackled and unable to break forward just because Bruno is more advanced than him.

Its not about being shackled. His job is to control play both offensively and defensively. A quarterback. Its not his primary goal to get goals and assists when anchoring the midfield.... and if he were to charge forwards all the time in a tightly fought game we would be slaughtered.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Its not about being shackled. His job is to control play both offensively and defensively. A quarterback. Its not his primary goal to get goals and assists when anchoring the midfield.... and if he were to charge forwards all the time in a tightly fought game we would be slaughtered.

I'm well aware of what his role is. I never said his primary job is to get goals and assists.

 

[padzilla]

I think at this point we have to accept Pogba is never going to be the force we thought he was when he signed him. It's rare Fergie gets it wrong with a player and this looks like another example. His potential has never been realised for us sadly.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think at this point we have to accept Pogba is never going to be the force we thought he was when he signed him. It's rare Fergie gets it wrong with a player and this looks like another example. His potential has never been realised for us sadly.

But Fergie wanted to keep him.

He didn't willingly let him leave.

 

[el3mel]

Have we not come full circle, in the blowout with jose was it not due to his lack of discipline and defensive duties?

Ole came in played him further forward in the 433. He looked great, we looked good. Ole got the job and went defensive. Just seems a waste of what he is, and also suspect to our team shape

If you have a choice to play one further forward from Bruno and Pogba, which one will you choose? It's really an easy decision for any manager to make.

 

[padzilla]

But Fergie wanted to keep him.

He didn't willingly let him leave.

Wasn't it the case Pogba wanted to go because Fergie didn't think he was ready for the first team. It's debatable if he still is 10 years later.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Wasn't it the case Pogba wanted to go because Fergie didn't think he was ready for the first team. It's debatable if he still is 10 years later.

I think Pogba wanted to be a mainstay in the team, and Fergie wanted to slowly integrate him into the team.

Raiola got in his ear perhaps and looked for a move for him with more guarantee of playing time.

Not to defend Pogba's poor start to this season, but I still think some of our fans have unrealistic expectations of him.

They want him to control the game like Scholes(something he's never shown the ability to do), make forward runs and score like Lampard and be a colossus shielding the defense like a Makelele all at once. It's unrealistic and silly.

 

[GioF]

His performances so far this season looks like a player just unhappy with what’s going on. That could be a personal issue with the club or his actual in game unhappiness.

I hope it’s the latter. For me in my opinion we need to use Matic as the deep lying defensive midfielder and push Pogba up much closer to Martial and Bruno. Pogba will flourish there and become the impact player we all demand.

Just going from the eye test rather than stats here but the space between our midfield and front three is horrible. I don’t know if that’s because we are terrified of the ball in behind and our cb’s don’t push up enough but at parts yesterday the spaces between each section (def,mid,att) was a joke. Especially when Brighton sat back into a back 5.

 

[Bestietom]

Don't think any of the tams interested in Pogba, can afford him this season.

 

[clarkydaz]

If you have a choice to play one further forward from Bruno and Pogba, which one will you choose? It's really an easy decision for any manager to make.

he moved Pogba back way before Bruno arrived. I assumed it was short term to get through a sticky patch but has kept him there. That to me is odd considering what went on before

 

[Hammondo]

A lot of people saying he should be played in a different position, or that Ole gas changed his position.

Imo that's not true, the difference is our opponents have learnt how to play against him.

He cannot play in tight spaces, he's bad Vs the press. So our opponents press him and/or don't give space in attacking positions.

Either pogba pushes up and is instantly useless when things are tight.

Or he plays further back where he can't run the game or break down the defense.

He's been found out.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

I think he needs to get fit. Everyone knows he has recovered from Corona. No preseason etc does not help..I think we need to revisit this thread after a month.

But Ole has to take some blame here playing Pogba if he is not 100 per cent fit esp when we have ideal replacement in Donny or Fred.

I think once we hit peak fitness our team will look and perform lot differently than the one on show at the moment. With Rashford starting to come back in form I can't wait for Pogba to find his runs from the deep.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You know like we've had about 2 weeks preseason where the team have tried to get in shape for the new season?

Well for two weeks of that time, Pogba had COVID, which means he couldn't train.

These last couple of weeks have taught me that there's a great deal of people on here who have never done a days worth of exercise in their life.

Yup, was a poor performance but I have been amazed he’s even started the last two games, there’s no way he can be fit enough to do so yet. I’d give him a couple weeks off from games and doing nothing but training, he’s clearly struggling from after the COVID bout he had.

 

[Slevs]

Again, the same as the last 3 seasons (at least), definitely should be sold.

 

[AneRu]

Last summer was our last window to sell him and get a meaningful fee for him. The problem is that none of the big clubs rate him highly enough to pay a fee of over £80m for him but the smart money would have been to sell and buy Bruno plus another No.8 with better defensive nous and ability to run games from deep, a younger version of Modric.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

In one word, No. what we should consider is locking this thread up at least till mid-October. No need to create toxic threads this early in tge season, specially for a player who has recently been under COVID. Pogba will need time and minutes to get back to his best, but he is key to our team. So be a supporter.

He is key In the same way a pisshead rolls home from the pub and spends 4 years trying to unlock the front door with a car key.

 

[sugar_kane]

We missed the boat on selling him, for now he’s stuck with us and we’re stuck with him.

Actually feel slightly sorry for him that he’s wasted a huge chunk of his peak years with this United team (similarish to Mata)

I can’t imagine these four years were what he had in mind when Jose signed him.

Signing a player we released on a free for a record transfer fee without any plan on how he would fit into the team has been one the many highlights of the shit show that has been the Woodward years.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Why are people using corona virus as an excuse for Pogbas last 2 performances? People saying in a couple of weeks when he's match fitter he'll be back to his best. What is his best? Other than a 2 month span when Ole first came in and maybe for a month under Mou Pogba has been very underwhelming. So unless he's had corona virus for the last 4 years there's absolutely no evidence Pogba has been or ever will be an integral part of our team going forward. He's basically a luxury player, icing on the cake which is something we can't afford to have right now.

Maybe if Pogba joined Madrid instead of us after his Juve adventure we could of been talking about a WC player but unfortunately for everyone he didn't. We have never been the right fit for him which isn't all on Pogba but if we could get 80+m for him which in turn means we could get Sancho then I'd take that all day long.

 

[Dante]

He's not a world class player. If we can get a world class fee for him, it'll be worth it.

Here are his career stats:

Season

Apps

Mins

Team

Total Goals

Non- Set Piece GoalsPG

Non- Penalty GoalsPG

SpG

Assists

Tackles

Fouls

Aerials Won

PS%

2020/2021

2

132​

Man Utd

PL

0​

0​

0​

1​

0​

0.5​

3.5​

1.5​

72.4​

2019/2020

13(3)

1205​

Man Utd

PL

1​

0​

0​

1.4​

3​

1.3​

1.6​

1.8​

85.5​

2019/2020

2(1)

237​

Man Utd

EL

0​

0​

0​

1.3​

0​

2​

1​

2.3​

85.9​

2018/2019

34(1)

3012​

Man Utd

PL

13​

5​

6​

3​

9​

1.3​

1.5​

1.7​

82.8​

2018/2019

8(1)

730​

Man Utd

CL

2​

1​

1​

1.7​

1​

0.6​

1.4​

1.4​

85.2​

2018/2019

3

270​

France

UNL

0​

0​

0​

1.7​

0​

1.7​

0.7​

1.3​

84​

2018​

6

539​

France

WC

1​

1​

1​

1.2​

0​

2.2​

2.3​

3.3​

80.2​

2017/2018

3(2)

279​

Man Utd

CL

0​

0​

0​

1​

1​

1.6​

1.2​

0.6​

86​

2017/2018

25(2)

2151​

Man Utd

PL

6​

6​

6​

2.8​

10​

1.2​

1.6​

1.9​

85.3​

2016/2017

29(1)

2610​

Man Utd

PL

5​

3​

5​

3.1​

4​

1.8​

2.1​

2.8​

85.1​

2016/2017

15

1263​

Man Utd

EL

3​

2​

2​

3​

1​

2​

1.7​

2.9​

83.2​

2016​

6(1)

602​

France

EC

1​

0​

1​

2.3​

0​

2.4​

1.7​

1.4​

88.3​

2015/2016

33(2)

3019​

Juventus

SA

8​

4​

7​

3.5​

12​

2.2​

2.5​

1.8​

83.4​

2015/2016

8

750​

Juventus

CL

1​

1​

10​

3​

2​

2​

2.4​

2​

77.7​

2014/2015

24(2)

2110​

Juventus

SA

8​

7​

8​

2.2​

3​

2.2​

2.3​

1.4​

83.8​

2014/2015

10

833​

Juventus

CL

1​

1​

1​

1.4​

3​

1.9​

1.9​

2.1​

84.1​

2014​

4(1)

355​

France

WC

1​

1​

1​

2​

1​

0.6​

1.6​

1.4​

81.7​

2013/2014

33(3)

3068​

Juventus

SA

7​

6​

7​

2​

7​

2.3​

2.4​

2.2​

83.8​

2013/2014

6

540​

Juventus

CL

0​

0​

0​

2.7​

1​

1.8​

1.5​

2.3​

76.3​

2013/2014

6(2)

517​

Juventus

EL

1​

1​

1​

1.9​

0​

2.8​

2​

1.9​

76.3​

2012/2013

18(9)

1732​

Juventus

SA

5​

4​

5​

2.1​

0​

2.5​

1.5​

2.3​

82.9​

2012/2013

3(5)

338​

Juventus

CL

0​

0​

0​

0.8​

0​

2.1​

0.9​

1​

78.7​

2011/2012

0(3)

67​

Man Utd

PL

0​

0​

0​

1.3​

0​

1​

0.3​

0​

95.3​

He's really not as great as some people paint him out to be.

If you want to discuss his attacking stats, they've been good but never that special. There are players at midtable clubs who have put in much better seasons. Obviously, if you surround him with Matic, Lingard, Hererra, Pereira and Fred, all the creative onus is going to be on him. So he'll be number 1 for the club in those lists. But that's mostly been by design because we've tried to build the team around him.

On the defensive side of his game, he's consistently put in fewer tackles for United than he did for either either Juventus or France. The observation that he doesn't put in as much effort for us is borne out by the stats. You can talk about him being "shackled", but he doesn't appear to put in as much of a shift for United as he does for the other teams he's played for. If he were shackled, it would be the other around.

Why is this? Is it because he doesn't try as hard for United as he does elsewhere? Maybe. That would explain Mourinho's issues with him. Pogba is clearly very popular and very influential - like the coolest kid in class. But that's not always a good thing if the coolest kid in class is also so cool that he doesn't do his homework.

Is it just that the transition to Premier League football has been too big a leap for him? I tend to think so. His hype appears to mostly be based on his performances in less intense settings.

In the 4 years he's been here, he's not shown anywhere near enough to suggest he's worthy of being a franchise player for us. The only world class qualities I've seen consistently are his long-range passing and occasionally his amazing dribbles or turns (which seem to be as likely to result in a dispossession as they are in breaking free from an opponent).

There's definitely a top class player in there. But he's probably not going to show it for Manchester United or in the intensity of the Premier League. And that means he's not as good as his biggest proponents suggest.

 

[Toni's Left Foot]

Wasn't it the case Pogba wanted to go because Fergie didn't think he was ready for the first team. It's debatable if he still is 10 years later.

Davide Petrucci was playing better than Pogba in the reserves midfield around the time of the infamous Blackburn home game where Pogba was left on the bench.

 

[Toni's Left Foot]

Have you ever had corona out of interest

8 out of 10 people who test positive never experience any symptoms. Not sure if Pogba was actually 'sick' with it.

 

[#07]

Sell Pogba? For how much? He's got less than a year left on his contract. With the global pandemic going on we'd be lucky to get decent money for him.

Thiago Alcantara has just moved for €30m in similar circumstances. If we can only hope for a similar fee we may as well keep him and hope he finds his best form.

IMO it's unlikely Pogba will be a United player this time next season. Unless the club shows real ambition I don't think he will sign a new deal. We should just hope he signs off with a superb season and not worry too much about the rest.

 

[clarkydaz]

8 out of 10 people who test positive never experience any symptoms. Not sure if Pogba was actually 'sick' with it.

Sure he was pictured out for dinner with his wife around the time, so yeah not sure how bad he was hit with it

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Sell Pogba? For how much? He's got less than a year left on his contract. With the global pandemic going on we'd be lucky to get decent money for him.

Thiago Alcantara has just moved for €30m in similar circumstances. If we can only hope for a similar fee we may as well keep him and hope he finds his best form.

IMO it's unlikely Pogba will be a United player this time next season. Unless the club shows real ambition I don't think he will sign a new deal. We should just hope he signs off with a superb season and not worry too much about the rest.

We have a 1 year option. He has nearly 2 years left.

 

[clarkydaz]

Sell Pogba? For how much? He's got less than a year left on his contract. With the global pandemic going on we'd be lucky to get decent money for him.

Thiago Alcantara has just moved for €30m in similar circumstances. If we can only hope for a similar fee we may as well keep him and hope he finds his best form.

IMO it's unlikely Pogba will be a United player this time next season. Unless the club shows real ambition I don't think he will sign a new deal. We should just hope he signs off with a superb season and not worry too much about the rest.

Love to see Woodwards reaction when a club says Pogba isnt worth your asking price in a covid market

 

[Clermontois]

Davide Petrucci was playing better than Pogba in the reserves midfield around the time of the infamous Blackburn home game where Pogba was left on the bench.

8 out of 10 people who test positive never experience any symptoms. Not sure if Pogba was actually 'sick' with it.

False.

That is such idiotic take, hope you stay clear of it mate.

 

[Stig]

Yes. Despite his ability to do brilliant things a player who worked hard off the ball and came back to defend would actually add more to the team.

As daft as it sounds, I think the team is more solid with Fred playing his break it up defensive style of play and , pass it quickly forward to someone close. it doesn't look stylish but it is better for the team than an aimlessly wandering genius.