It also wasn't a given that Newcastle would be as excellent as they have been, or that Arsenal would remove themselves from the top four race by actually challenging for the title.
Should Ten Hag get the sack if he fails to qualify for the CL?
- Thread starter Idxomer
- Start date
It also wasn't a given that Newcastle would be as excellent as they have been, or that Arsenal would remove themselves from the top four race by actually challenging for the title.
Would be an absolute disaster to not only blow top 4, but to hand it to Liverpool of all teams...
If he keeps top 4 we back him
If he loses it to Liverpool after such a lead, unacceptable and has to go.
It's a fine line, but that's how it is.
If he keeps top 4 we back him
If he loses it to Liverpool after such a lead, unacceptable and has to go.
It's a fine line, but that's how it is.
Newcastle will finish above us with a far far weaker team. That’s just poor whatever way you want to spin it. Why did Weghorst start yesterday?!
I’m certainly not going to give the players an excuse either. Most of them are not good enough but the manager also has to hit his targets. A ten point lead on an average Liverpool side and being comfortably in the top 4 were minimum expectations. Anyway I am torn, I really do like what Ten Hag has done but I also liked what Ole did and showed him too much faith and that wasn’t rewarded either for me.
If I am honest, this is what worries me the most. Being realistic, all I have really saw this season is Rashford having an amazing run of form ( now gone unfortunately) and Martinez being a brilliant addition to defence. The rest is just rinse and repeat.
Who has ETH made better and how is our style of football greatly improved?
How long did it take Pep and Klopp to win the league with their teams? Neither walked straight into a title win in their first season.
Erik is building a squad, he learning about this team and about English football. He’s done very well so far and we are probably ahead of where we should be, but we were never going to win the league this year. Especially without a striker, with question marks over the GK and with all the injuries and suspensions we’ve had to key players. We won’t win it next year most likely either - or the CL. Maybe his third season will bear the bigger fruit. It’s not an indefinite period he has, there comes a point where questions are asked but that’s not at the end of his first season, which has been our best in some time. We have to be patient as long as things are moving forward, and they definitely are.
Finishing 3rd under Ole and people said sack him anyway as we will never finish above City with him. Same when we came 2nd.
If we finish 5th under ETH in what's been an open goal top 4 race for us then I don't see where the faith is coming from that he's the man either.
He simply has to get us over the line in the next 3 weeks. No excuses.
If we finish 5th under ETH in what's been an open goal top 4 race for us then I don't see where the faith is coming from that he's the man either.
He simply has to get us over the line in the next 3 weeks. No excuses.
Niether Klopp nor Guardiola had particularly successful first seasons with Liverpool and City, they both had growing pains. Also Klopp and Guardiola are very different managers, while Guardiola is fairly dogmatic even though he adapted to his players in all his clubs, Klopp isn't dogmatic, not only all his teams have played very different styles, he has also done it with very different players. If anything Klopp and ETH are pretty similar, they are both adaptable.
And top talent isn't what we need, we need top fit, we need good players that are a good fit to the good players that we already have. These players aren't necessarily expensive and they aren't necessarily CL bound for 23/24.
No it isn't
... guys been here one year, try to exercise a little patience for crying out loudKlopp finished 8th in his first season
He has got them playing a high intensity football from the 3rd game of the season after 2 losses they have been miles better than seasons before.
Injuries suspension and the fixture list is out of the managers hands, 2 CBs in Same game ffs how often does that happen, Martial injured in out good then bad, WW was a punt, because no money in Jan. All these factors will determine how the season ends. 3 more wins imo and it should be OK for top 4. The fecking owners don't help either by pissing about with selling or not, people say it doesn't affect the players and staff , I must in some degree.
We need top 4 . Week off now between games so should be fine.
Injuries suspension and the fixture list is out of the managers hands, 2 CBs in Same game ffs how often does that happen, Martial injured in out good then bad, WW was a punt, because no money in Jan. All these factors will determine how the season ends. 3 more wins imo and it should be OK for top 4. The fecking owners don't help either by pissing about with selling or not, people say it doesn't affect the players and staff , I must in some degree.
We need top 4 . Week off now between games so should be fine.
I've contacted my 50 Sicilian mates who are season ticket holders for some detailed feedback.
Ill keep you posted
I don't particularly have a problem with Antony, I have a problem with what he cost. That is not the lad's fault. I have a problem with Sancho and no research being done on issues at previous clubs, then a new manager comes in and he is not available for him. Actually good job we had Antony for those games. I have a problem with us not getting a at least good level striker when manager asked for ones. I have a problem with Martial, staying fit, then not putting an ounce of effort in. Who the hell will want to buy a player who looks like he doesn't actually enjoy playing football. I definitely do not have a problem with the manager. The owners now I could talk all day about the problems I have with them.
I seriously can't believe anyone could have watched us this season and last and come to the conclusion that our football hasn't improved.
Varane, Dalot, AWB, And Rashford have all markedly improved.
Which is why I don't understand your conclusion. It's not based on expectation but unexpected opportunities, you are figuratively throwing away a thoughtout plan because at some point along the way you thought that you had a winning lottery ticket and wouldn't have to work anymore.
If the season didn't match my initial expectations which was that we would be fighting for the 4th place then I would understand people wanting the manager sacked but we are actually doing what we expected and hoped for. People are upset because we didn't overachieve which is senseless.
Great post.
No it isn't
Klopp finished 8th in his first season
Klopp finished 4th in his first full season actually. 8th place was when we took over around Halloween with Liverpool in the bottom half. Hardly on him that.
I gave you Rashford though lets be honest how could he not improve on last season
. Varane is better because he has Martinez instead of Harry as a partner. Dalot has regressed again since WC and AWB still has same flaws.Also regards the football, have you watched us last 2 months?
A huge NO. Ten Hag has done very well in his first year here.
We still need 2 young midfielders a CF plus another goalscoring forward and a few defenders also.
The job is not nearly done yet, but if he is backed he will get us up there with the best.
We still need 2 young midfielders a CF plus another goalscoring forward and a few defenders also.
The job is not nearly done yet, but if he is backed he will get us up there with the best.
And that first full season is preceded by 2/3 of a season. Which is a fairly longer time of adaption and evolution.
It most definitely was a reasonable expectation that Ronaldo given his age might not be relied upon either due to form or injury. Was a far more pressing need than right wing, doubly so given the sums involved.
God this place becomes tiresome when defending a manager for no reason. Why have people not learned to support a manager without needing to create ridiculous lines of defence.
We don't have this issue with players, they get to work on flaws. With a manager it's always excuses to cover up any wrongs.
OriginalTagline checks out
Thanks
And if ETH gets us over the line we can relax and look forward to the next season.
Finishing below Liverpool given their troubles this season will be embarrassing really
Read the last line. And not my job to say who. I answered the same question in the other thread.
That's irrelevant to ETH being sacked or not. Personally I'm relaxed and look forward to next season, precisely because I see growth and weaknesses, I'm curious to see whether ETH will find solutions to those weaknesses and keep us growing.
Also United have had their fair share of troubles this season between many injuries to key players and a big profile player having a public meltdown that the club managed fairly well even though he allegedly created internal issues. If anything ETH managed things so smoothly that some of you forgot what actually happened in 22/23.
They're in a very different situation to us, which is why they can afford to be ruthless and still be successful. If we ruthlessly sacked manager after manager year after year, I highly doubt we'd make any progress at all.
That's where you and I differ.
Next season top 4 won't be this easy. Chelsea will improve and Liverpool definitely will.
With no CL money for a second season running we will be in big big trouble too to try and close the gap.
If he fails this season it will be disastrous.
No
And we will qualify anyway
And we will qualify anyway
That doesn't help EtH's cause though. People who didn't think that we'd get top 4 at the start of the season were almost universally of the opinion that Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, and (in severely pessimistic cases) Spurs had equal/better players than we had.
If Newcastle are doing better against our competition with a very mediocre team, then what excuse is there for EtH not getting the same tune out of vastly superior players?
I have to emphasise that I am in favour of EtH getting next year regardless, but I don't think that us failing to get top 4 in the circumstances of the season is all that excusable.
No, expectations aren't formed in a vacuum. People who may have been willing to accept being outperformed by strong Chelsea and Liverpool sides may be less willing to be potentially outperformed by a mediocre Newcastle team and a Liverpool team who took half the season off.
It seems the current ownership model is to find a manager to replace Fergie, and if that’s the case why persevere with a manager that isn’t Fergie? Would we just be better off cycling through managers until we get lucky instead of letting the wrong manager do more damage over two years?
Totally.
Ah cool, so he’s done the same is what you’re saying, I’m with you
his first season he finished 5th, and in this great era of Tottenham history that you speak of. They won not one throphy
Pressing and work rate is absolutely essential to Klopp. That is his philosophy. You didn’t see him parking the bus when his midfielders weren’t up to the mark. He still played the same way despite leaking goals constantly. He didn’t try to adapt.
Yes Klopp and Guardiola weren’t an instant success but it was apparent what they were trying to implement. Pressing in case of Klopp and passing and possession incase of Guardiola. I’m not seeing that at the moment. We still get by individual moments and don’t seem to know what we are trying to do. Take out Casemiro and Martinez from this team and we still look like how we did under Ole. What has EtH improved in our existing players?
I wish we could sign players who aren’t in the radar of other clubs like you say. We need players like that absolutely to improve squad. Even in this part EtH doesn’t seem like a good fit. He demands players that aren’t gettable or players only he knows.
Again that's irrelevant. Whether you make top 4 this season or not you need to keep growing and improving, this is true for everyone including Newcastle, Arsenal, Chelsea, City or Liverpool. Top 4 isn't supposed to be easy, I don't expect it to be easy and easiness of a projection isn't part of whether ETH should be sacked or whether he matched what I expected.
As I said I don't think many people expected us to easily make top 4 this season and I don't think anyone expected us to easily make top 4 in 23-24. It's not sensible to move the goalpost to something that you don't actually expect and have strong opinion based on botched logic.
And you know what, I don't actually think that most of you want him sacked, I think that a fair amount of posters and fans are completely unable to be criitical of something without hot takes, it happens with nearly every topics.
Varane is a world class CB already. There isn’t much to improve. I’m not really sold on Dalot, he is a liablitly in defence and I don’t see what he contributes to the attack. He should be sold ASAP. I’ll give you AwB but he was always known for his tackling. I don’t think Rashford has improved at all, he is a good finisher but nowhere consistent enough. He is either a 9 or 3 in all games. He had been like that throughout his career.
Pressing and work rates are philosophies. And Klopp went from a below 50% or around 50% possession with low block at Dortmund to around 65% possession and high line with Liverpool. Klopp has successfully used extremely different approaches one that is parking the bus and beating team on the counter, he has used everything from Mainz to Liverpool.
Which is why I like ETH more than Klopp (not saying ETH is better than Klopp, at least not yet, mentioning this because I just know some of you will twist my words into that), I like manager who can adapt over manager who doesn't have Plan B at all.
I'd give him the start of next season if he falls short this one. If he doesnt start off on target to get top 4 and push on from there, gotta find someone else. Lets say 8 or so games into the season at least top 4
Half my reasoning is not really being convinced of another manager to go with right now
Half my reasoning is not really being convinced of another manager to go with right now
This season is better than Fergie's first season, if that's the benchmark you are going to judge the manager with.