Should Ten Hag get the sack if he fails to qualify for the CL?

[Name Changed]

No it isn't ... guys been here one year, try to exercise a little patience for crying out loud

Klopp finished 8th in his first season

Yes, it would be a disaster. Severe decrease in revenue and the inability to compete for the top players. We will be raiding the Eredivisie for more slop. He has made a mess of the last month. We should not even be talking about not finishing in the top 4. And now we could be losing that to our biggest rivals of all team. Yes it is a disaster and the manager must take a large bit of blame because he has made a lot of mistakes.

 

[PoTMS]

I'd give him the start of next season if he falls short this one. If he doesnt start off on target to get top 4 and push on from there, gotta find someone else. Lets say 8 or so games into the season at least top 4

Half my reasoning is not really being convinced of another manager to go with right now

See I'm the opposite. I'm still Ten Hag in (for the moment) but I'd be more willing to push him out if we don't get top 4 only because it's not often you'll have Enrique, Ancelotti and Nagelsmann available all at the same time.

 

[Jim Beam]

Murtough might not have a job with the new owners.

It really shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[joedirt87]

No.

 

[crossy1686]

This season is better than Fergie's first season, if that's the benchmark you are going to judge the manager with.

No, the benchmark for the baked it seems is having a manager that can transform the club on his own, essentially do what Fergie did which was become his own DOF. Really they should just hire a DOF but they’re refusing to do that in case they undermine the manager…

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

See I'm the opposite. I'm still Ten Hag in (for the moment) but I'd be more willing to push him out if we don't get top 4 only because it's not often you'll have Enrique, Ancelotti and Nagelsmann available all at the same time.

I can somehow understand Ancelotti and Enrique, but what has Nagelsmann done that was more impressive?

 

[Laurencio]

I'd rather we buy him a striker or two <_<

 

[James35]

This thread will be crazy, if as I expect, we miss out on top 4 and get pumped by City in the final. Tempers will be high.

I’m giving him another season 100% regardless but if we don’t make CL or win anything (even the CC again) next year, I would be questioning his position for sure.

Plus if we also have new owners they may have their own plans anyway regarding the manager. This team as much as we love it always has some negative cloud hanging over it this past decade.

 

[Red Star One]

Which is why I don't understand your conclusion. It's not based on expectation but unexpected opportunities, you are figuratively throwing away a thoughtout plan because at some point along the way you thought that you had a winning lottery ticket and wouldn't have to work anymore.

If the season didn't match my initial expectations which was that we would be fighting for the 4th place then I would understand people wanting the manager sacked but we are actually doing what we expected and hoped for. People are upset because we didn't overachieve which is senseless.

But football is also about that and about taking advantage of such situations. Poch was never expected to win the league, but he can be criticized for not getting it done when his team was in a prime position to do so, even if that was mainly due to the competitors' failure.

Yes, it would be a disaster. Severe decrease in revenue and the inability to compete for the top players. We will be raiding the Eredivisie for more slop. He has made a mess of the last month. We should not even be talking about not finishing in the top 4. And now we could be losing that to our biggest rivals of all team. Yes it is a disaster and the manager must take a large bit of blame because he has made a lot of mistakes.

Interestingly, if we fail to qualify for the CL, I would expect to see a very wide range of opinions about this season, from those thinking it was a disgrace and nothing more than 3/10 to those genuinely in awe and giving ETH 8.5/10 for the first year.

 

[Scandi Red]

If he fails to get top 4 then he should be forced to grow hair. And if he really is a Truebald(™), then make him wear a wig. I'm thinking the Graham Potter pre-Chelsea haircut is sufficiently embarrassing.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I seriously can't believe anyone could have watched us this season and last and come to the conclusion that our football hasn't improved.

Varane, Dalot, AWB, And Rashford have all markedly improved.

He’s played far better football than last season sure but we were truly rock bottom at that point so really the only way was up with a competent manager (which Ten Hag clearly is!). But the question remains are we really better than under Ole in the years preceding that? For me not really, in fact we have never played better football than when Rashford, Martial and Greenwood were spearheading an attack ahead of Bruno. Our attack has significantly regressed from that point in time. Some of that (Greenwood) is well out of his control, but he’s also signed his replacement in Antony who is a shadow of that player!

 

[crossy1686]

I can somehow understand Ancelotti and Enrique, but what has Nagelsmann done that was more impressive?

Yeah feck that guy, would be more of the same if not worse

 

[Marcus]

Do we want to create a culture of placing Top 4 instead over trophies? Let's not be the Glazers.

 

[Judas]

If people are fed up and can’t stomach how Ten Hag operates I do laugh at them then suggesting Nagelsmann. I still really rate him, but it really would be more of the same?

 

[Jev]

He’s played far better football than last season sure but we were truly rock bottom at that point so really the only way was up with a competent manager (which Ten Hag clearly is!). But the question remains are we really better than under Ole in the years preceding that? For me not really, in fact we have never played better football than when Rashford, Martial and Greenwood were spearheading an attack ahead of Bruno. Our attack has significantly regressed from that point in time. Some of that (Greenwood) is well out of his control, but he’s also signed his replacement in Antony who is a shadow of that player!

This. It's disingenuous to compare with last season. That was an anomaly, disaster season where everything went wrong and we'd written off the season by February. That is not the benchmark ETH should be judged against.

 

[JPRouve]

But football is also about that and about taking advantage of such situations. Poch was never expected to win the league, but he can be criticized for not getting it done when his team was in a prime position to do so, even if that was mainly due to the competitors' failure.

Not after a season when the expectations are met. Pochettino was criticized after several seasons including seasons where he was expected to win something, Pochettino wasn't expected to win the league but he was expected to win something and he didn't. Not only that, when asked about cup success, he downplayed it and showed that there was something wrong with his attitude. Before that Pochettino was deservedly praised.

 

[Jev]

Do we want to create a culture of placing Top 4 instead over trophies? Let's not be the Glazers.

Trophy. The mighty Mickey Mouse Cup, in which we had the easiest draw we'll ever get. Not reaching the final with that draw would have been hugely disappointing.

 

[OleTheGreat]

EtH is a superb manager. We need 3-4 quality players in this summer window and we'll definitely do better next season. He needs a striker who can score and finish the chances created by this team because there are few and far of those apart from Rashford who has also lately been hogging the ball a lot. EtH will solve all the problems in the club if the Qataris takeover and buy some fantastic players for us. Like mentioned in some of the posts, Mbappe, Camavinga would be players we need and love but it might not happen. We need players of that players, mainly we need players like Liz Martinez who will give their heart out on the pitch for the team and club.

 

[Red Star One]

Not after a season when the expectations are met. Pochettino was criticized after several seasons including seasons where he was expected to win something, Pochettino wasn't expected to win the league but he was expected to win something and he didn't. Not only that, when asked about cup success, he downplayed it and showed that there was something wrong with his attitude.Before that Pochettino was deservedly praised.

If you say so. My impression, here on the Caf, on other Internet forums, and among my friends, was that Poch was almost unanimously laughed at and criticized for finishing third in a two-horse race. Even if Spurs would've easily taken third before the start of that season.

 

[Maluco]

The wounds yesterday were self-inflicted. Lots of teams have played lots of football.

He bought and started Malacia (who is awful), he lined up with Eriksen deep in midfield again, which we have already paid for about 10 times away from home.

He started Weghorst, and shunted our most in form player out wide to accommodate him. He then did nothing to change it until it was too late.

It was a disaster class and the ebbing away of my faith is because he doesn’t seem to be learning. Just plodding on with the same mistakes over and over.

It is worrying, and if the season ends with dropping out of the top 4 and a final defeat, it will be a failure, and it will have been of his own doing. That is a very worrying situation to be backing a manager into a summer window.

 

[JPRouve]

If you say so. My impression, here on the Caf, on other Internet forums, and among my friends, was that Poch was almost unanimously laughed at and criticized for finishing third in a two-horse race. Even if Spurs would've easily taken third before the start of that season.

They were laughed at because they bottled it during the last weeks but Pochettino was highly rated and praised for his work up until 2019. There is a big difference between banter and not rating someone or demanding his sacking.

As I said earlier you can criticze ETH for certain things but it makes no sense to say that he should be sacked if we don't make top 4. Extreme takes aren't necessary nor sensible.

 

[madzo2007]

This has to be the ultimate knee jerk thread

People really should stop and have a think for a second "Should I post this" before hitting post.

No, ETH should definitely not be sacked. Hasn't even entered my mind. The cup runs, amount of games, loss of form and injuries have started to conspire against him when it matters most. Good timing to have a free week to get the players mentally and physically refreshed before the final games.

 

[tenpoless]

No but it can't be good for him and the club both. It'll make every progress slower (harder to attract top players, low motivation at the end of season and it will persist until the league starts). I hope it doesn't happen. If we keep winning the games playing decent football, including winning the FA cup, we can still end the season high on confidence. Yeah that sounds a bit delusional at the moment but I'd rather be a little bit RAWK than being a miserable all day everyday. But top 4 alone is enough for him to keep the job regardless of who the new owners are, I'm fairly certain of that.

 

[horse_pills]

After the shitstorm ETH walked into when he took over, it would be ludicrous to sack him after ONE season. Everyone said he'd need at least 3 windows to even come close to where we needed to be - now some of those people are debating whether or not he should be fired already? Clowns

 

[The Hilton]

It most definitely was a reasonable expectation that Ronaldo given his age might not be relied upon either due to form or injury. Was a far more pressing need than right wing, doubly so given the sums involved.

God this place becomes tiresome when defending a manager for no reason. Why have people not learned to support a manager without needing to create ridiculous lines of defence.

We don't have this issue with players, they get to work on flaws. With a manager it's always excuses to cover up any wrongs.

The irony of you complaining about the defences of the manager, when your line of attack is that he didn't forsee our main striker getting himself fired via a Piers Morgan interview!

There are legitimate criticisms that can be made of the manager, but the Ronaldo one is nonsense.

 

[Maticmaker]

No of course not, we have overachieved from where we were when Erik took over with winning one cup and getting to the final of another plus still having a realistic chance of a place in Europe, if not in the champions league.
No one can seriously expect someone taking over as manager in the position we were (still are to some degree) in and expecting a top four finish.
Yes there are some of Erik's team selections or substitutions (timing of in particular) that I would question, but given what he's got to choose from, who he has brought in, etc. Sure it will be a disappointment if we don't qualify for the champions league, but its only his first attempt.

In season, once you have one piece of silverware and still a chance of another in a show piece final, it casts a shadow over the mundane day to day 'bread and butter' stuff of the league. Its human nature and we have seen other sides fall away from the 'day job' under such circumstances in the past. The previous 'high' of winning the Caraboa Cup, especially in such nerve-jangling conditions, of a penalty shoot-out, lives in the memory of everyone involved and can cloud it somewhat, the prospect of yet another glamorous triumph is also lurking in the sub-conscious of everyone.

Erik is battling daily no doubt to ensure this background 'noise' doesn't interfere, lots of ..."we are only worried about the next game" will be heard all around, but only the battle-hardened players who have tasted this before can be relied on to truly put such thoughts to the back of their minds, and at the moment the ones we have with such perigees are few.

We have to give Erik a chance beyond one season!

 

[redcucumber]

This. It's disingenuous to compare with last season. That was an anomaly, disaster season where everything went wrong and we'd written off the season by February. That is not the benchmark ETH should be judged against.

FFS - it was people criticising ten Hag that were comparing last season to this and saying that our football hasn't improved! Disingenuous my hole.

 

[Siorac]

The irony of you complaining about the defences of the manager, when your line of attack is that he didn't forsee our main striker getting himself fired via a Piers Morgan interview!

He said that it could have been foreseen that Ronaldo could not be relied upon due to his age.

The man turned 38 this February, his steep decline - which was evident long before the Piers Morgan interview - wasn't exactly a shock. It is something the club should have expected and planned for better than we did.

 

[Rista]

No. But if we do miss out on top 4 questions should be asked and you can't just absolve him of all blame. With Ten Hag at least you know he's a competent manager so unless we have someone better lined up, it makes little sense to sack him. At the same time we can't just sit here and pretend certain things aren't worrying. The awful away record, the tendency of things going really bad when it gets bad, the stubborness, the signings. Missing out on top 4 on top of that just wouldn't look good.

 

[The Hilton]

He said that it could have been foreseen that Ronaldo could not be relied upon due to his age.

The man turned 38 this February, his steep decline - which was evident long before the Piers Morgan interview - wasn't exactly a shock. It is something the club should have expected and planned for better than we did.

I don't disagree that the club should have planned better, but we were short in so many areas in the summer, and striker looked like an area we had just enough depth in to make it through the season, with Ronaldo, Martial, and Rashford able to fill in. In comparison, we had zero right wingers, and it meant stifling someone's game being put out there.

The blame lies with the club as they let the manager down by not backing him to replace Ronaldo, rather than with the manager for prioritising the position we had no senior players for vs one we had 2 (and a half).

 

[The Hilton]

I don't particularly have a problem with Antony, I have a problem with what he cost. That is not the lad's fault. I have a problem with Sancho and no research being done on issues at previous clubs, then a new manager comes in and he is not available for him. Actually good job we had Antony for those games. I have a problem with us not getting a at least good level striker when manager asked for ones. I have a problem with Martial, staying fit, then not putting an ounce of effort in. Who the hell will want to buy a player who looks like he doesn't actually enjoy playing football. I definitely do not have a problem with the manager. The owners now I could talk all day about the problems I have with them.

Yeah I think that's the key distinction I'm trying to make - EtH had to bring in someone on the right as we had nobody there, whereas we had a couple of senior strikers even if one's legs were going and the other is injured half the season.

We needed a complete overhaul last summer and only had the budget to do about a third of the job, hopefully this summer we can get more done.

 

[Bebestation]

That's an odd argument. Playing with, say, a high defensive line isn't an inherently wrong tactic but it's sure as hell wrong your defenders all have the pace of Maguire.

If you don't have the right player for a certain tactic, then you play a different tactic. "If he had Kane it would be the right tactic" - that's not how it works. He does not have Kane. He has Weghorst. The player he wanted to bring to the club, a player we went to great lengths to extract from Besiktas. It is very much his player, despite your assertions to the contrary and his failing to make him work is exactly that, his failing.

We use wan Bissaka when we want to hold back an opposition left winger, we use Dalot when we want more attacking on the right flank. We use Fred when we want a 3 lung player in the middle of the park. It’s not all the time so he doesn’t get used all the time but it’s obvious what it’s for. We use Shaw because he is left footed and can play the ball whilst Martinez is injured.

Sabitzer seems to score a goal from CAM by making runs in to the box. Sancho plays like Mata.

We bring Maguire on when we needing some heading ability at the back.

Nearly every player is utelise differently offering different things.

Ten Hag clearly had a tactic against west Ham where Weghorst was part of his tactic - I don’t know what’s so odd about it.

When City want a goal scorer out wide do they play De Bruyne, Foden or Mahrez? They play Mahrez because that’s the tactic and Mahrez fits that role the best for them.

Ten Hag had a January transfer window where all he was allowed was Loan signings - if that leads you to believe that he was dying to sign Weghorst even if he had money to spend on him then so be it.

Sabitzer and Weghorst are not United quality and was asked to be bought because that’s literally all he could afford in January.

More examples of individual tactics - Martial to play in Rashford from deep. Bruno as the teams mains creators. Antony seems like he carries the ball/progresses with it forward even if he doesn’t do anything with it.

Every player plays football differently and a combination of them makes a tactic.

If Ten Hag believed defensively he needed a physical heading type defender then who would he choose? Maguire. He has done that this year even after dropping him - bringing him back for a specific opposition led tactic.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

I’m certainly not going to give the players an excuse either. Most of them are not good enough but the manager also has to hit his targets. A ten point lead on an average Liverpool side and being comfortably in the top 4 were minimum expectations. Anyway I am torn, I really do like what Ten Hag has done but I also liked what Ole did and showed him too much faith and that wasn’t rewarded either for me.

This is where I'm at as well. I really like ten Hag and want him to succeed at United but it would be hard not to feel deflated and conclude that he failed if he misses out on CL qualification after being firmly in position to make it. Also, being in EL next season means we should expect a repeat of this season if we challenge equally for all trophies which is absolutely what I think EtH would do, with the added difficulty of a probably improved Newcastle, Liverpool and Chelsea to contend with.

Finishing 3rd under Ole and people said sack him anyway as we will never finish above City with him. Same when we came 2nd.
If we finish 5th under ETH in what's been an open goal top 4 race for us then I don't see where the faith is coming from that he's the man either.
He simply has to get us over the line in the next 3 weeks. No excuses.

I truly hope he does because while I perfectly understand people's faith in Eth over Ole in the conditions stated, I really don't get why most Caftards don't seem to understand why others can be sceptical of EtH at this stage. The vitriol against EtH-sceptics in this thread is quite baffling to me. And it's not even a knee-jerk point of view, questions have been asked of EtH's management in his performance thread for months.

No

And we will qualify anyway

I think so too, the remaining fixtures are too favourable for us not to make it.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

During Ole/Rangnick time, we depended on counter attack and individual brilliance to score goal.

Under ETH we already have many brilliant team goals and more often than not dominating the opponent. We also have good movement and can hold the ball much better. The team chemistry and fighting spirit are good. Next season we will improve further.

Believe in the process. He is the right man to bring us forward.

 

[Siorac]

Ten Hag clearly had a tactic against west Ham where Weghorst was part of his tactic - I don’t know what’s so odd about it.

The odd thing is that Weghorst is useless in every tactic. He isn't an aerial presence, his hold-up play is horrendous, his link-up play is average on a good day, he has no pace, he has a poor first touch, he can't finish. There is no tactical justification for playing him because there is tactical role he can adequately fulfil in a Premier League team. We've seen it time and again and again but Ten Hag persists with him. Whatever that tactic is supposed to be, he should try something else because it isn't working.

The only thing Weghorst does well is pressing. But if we want to put a player in front of our two deeper midfielders solely for the sake of pressing then Fred is a far superior choice. If we want aerial presence then, and I'm not kidding, I'd rather have Maguire there. He'd be shite, too, but he can at least win aerial duels at a not completely embarrassing percentage.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Pressing and work rates are philosophies. And Klopp went from a below 50% or around 50% possession with low block at Dortmund to around 65% possession and high line with Liverpool. Klopp has successfully used extremely different approaches one that is parking the bus and beating team on the counter, he has used everything from Mainz to Liverpool.

But pressing and workrate is his thing. High line or low block his core principles remain the same. He doesn’t revert to packing men deep and hitting long balls. What is EtH philosophy?

 

[Giggsy13]

Poll courtesy of Joel and Avram Glazer.

 

[Edwards6]

This has to be the ultimate knee jerk thread

People really should stop and have a think for a second "Should I post this" before hitting post.

No, ETH should definitely not be sacked. Hasn't even entered my mind. The cup runs, amount of games, loss of form and injuries have started to conspire against him when it matters most. Good timing to have a free week to get the players mentally and physically refreshed before the final games.

Good to see some sense on here. People are too quick to forget the mess of a team that Ten Hag took over, I'll be gutted if we drop out the top 4 but I'm not blaming the manager. We all know the squad isn't good enough and he was never going to fix all the problems in 1 year

 

[Doodah]

I think ETH has proved he's not that great after all. Constantly playing Weghorst, and Martial when he's fit, not giving Pellestri any chance, not bringing up any other attacking talents from the academy... he is a stuck record.

He did well on the post-Ronaldo bounce. That has now worn off. Ever since winning the league cup the team has been on holiday. He doesn't have a plan B when things go badly. Well, his plan B is Weghorst... says it all really.

 

[Dannn411]

How is 2017-2018 a title contending season when City won the league by 19 points and Spurs weren't even 2nd

You can't be serious trying to say that was a title contending season.

If Pochettino was a winning manager, they would have won the league title in 2015-2016 vs Leicester. They had title contending teams and only challenged for the title once. And it ended with their disastrous meltdown vs Chelsea at the Bridge.

But why anyone would want Pochettino after his PSG is beyond me. He had the greatest player since Maradona and he had his worst club season ever under his watch. Even Neymar significantly declined in Pochettino's final season at PSG. Then he couldn't win the Ligue 1 title in his 1st season and had meltdowns in the champions league in consecutive seasons.

He's not a winner.

Could care less if he didn't win one trophy because unlike you, I am able to put things into context. We have had two so called "serial winners" manage the club and leave the squad worse than they met it. A manager's trophy track record has absolutely nothing to do with building great teams. Speak to Tuchel and Di Matteo.

Of the managers out there, Pochettino along with Enrique are the best available and BOTH are better managers than Ten Hag. Particularly tactically.