Yes, I am worried that they will just shrug it off. Also I'm not sure whats happening with how Sherlock survived the fall now. If its how he described it to Anderson then I find it hard to take Moriarty as a credible villain after CAM, given it portrayed the third episode of S2 as Sherlock just playing along. But I just don't see them re-addressing it as it wasn't mentioned after the first episode.
Sherlock
- Thread starter CheadleBeagle
- Start date
Yes, I am worried that they will just shrug it off. Also I'm not sure whats happening with how Sherlock survived the fall now. If its how he described it to Anderson then I find it hard to take Moriarty as a credible villain after CAM, given it portrayed the third episode of S2 as Sherlock just playing along. But I just don't see them re-addressing it as it wasn't mentioned after the first episode.
I'd be amazed if Moriarty is actually still alive.
Well I thought it might have been a trick, someone impersonating him but really can't see them have done the post credit scene if he isn't back.
Actually, thinking about it this is Moffat, nobody actually dies in his shows. The Doctor, Amy, Clara, Rory, River Song and Sherlock have all died at some point and just come back so I've changed my mind, I wouldn't be amazed if he does the same with Moriarty. It's extremely lazy writing.
Not dying is fine so long as there's a good way they survived, that's more his problem than anything else. He likes the big set up but doesn't always follow through.
It's fine in moderation, I've just named seven major characters he's come up with, he's probably only come up with about 12 in those two shows. Oh, Irene Adler too, she died and came back, make it eight. The problem in doing it so often is you're cheating the audience, and when you do genuinely kill off a character it removes any drama from it. Also, like you said, very rarely does he actually have a proper resolution, as a writer his schtick is basically putting himself and his characters into seemingly impossible jams and then getting out of them, which is fine, that's what Sherlock and Doctor Who are all about, and it makes entertaining viewing, unfortunately by and large his ways of getting them out of those jams are ridiculous. He'd make a truly awful magician.
To be honest... I still can't wrap my head around why Mary shot Sherlock!? I don't get it...
She was saving his life, obviously. Because the way you save someone's life is by shooting them rather than not shooting them. Because you're really good at shooting. That's how it works.
I thought she shot him to buy some time. She couldn't kill CAM in front of Sherlock and if she hadn't shot Sherlock he would probably have taken her down and it would have been a lot more difficult and probably painful from her perspective to explain it all with John only next door.
The face licking, flicking and fire pissing was great.
He was, in general, a fecking fantastic villain... which is why I think I was a bit miffed at just shooting him in the sodding head.
I thought we'd go into S4 with a villain that really did have Sherlocks number... which I think would have been much better. That character had a ton of potential.
It was a so, so episode. Disappointing that they didn't dedicate an entire episode to a case, and given the amount of attention they've given Molly's relationship and love for Sherlock you get the feeling that that's probably gonna come up at some point. Mrs. Watson too looks set to stay so there's every chance there'll be more of that sort of thing impinging on the main episode plots next season.
It's still really good television and miles better than 99% of everything else that's on, but this season was undoubtedly a sizeable step down in quality.
It's still really good television and miles better than 99% of everything else that's on, but this season was undoubtedly a sizeable step down in quality.
Well, this episode had the opportunity to change my mind after the last two, but instead just confirmed that it's jumped the shark. The show is now so in love with itself, and its plotting so lazy and contrived, that it's become a parody of itself. Mycroft showing up in a helicopter at the end was the biggest eye roll since the constantly-teleporting Lois Lane showed up aboard the military aircraft in Man of Steel. It just smacked of Gatiss wanting screen time.
Yes that's the explanation given. Meanwhile away from the bonkers overwrought plotting things backwards Sherlock universe, it's batshit.
It's alright, he's probably not dead.
Agreed.
Also, it makes me laugh that the writers/producers didn't even attempt to be subtle when it came to basing Magnussen on Rupert Murdoch.
Rupert Murdoch's one of the few people beyond satire. You basically just make a character exactly the same as him, call him Mupert Rurdoch and job's a good 'un.
They tried that with "Hacks"...I assure you, nothing about it was good'un. Ungood, perhaps.
Look at the Mail's review headline:feck feck feck feckITY feck
I haven't watched the episode yet, I go on Twitter and guess what the trending topic is? feck's sake.
Edit: Just watched it. Martin Freeman is such a good actor, what was with the face flicking, and the ending was totally spoiled for me because of #Twittertrends.
Poor Redbeard
and is there an older brother??
Oh, and does anyone else think Janine is connected to Moriarty?
I haven't watched the episode yet, I go on Twitter and guess what the trending topic is? feck's sake.
Edit: Just watched it. Martin Freeman is such a good actor, what was with the face flicking, and the ending was totally spoiled for me because of #Twittertrends.
Poor Redbeard
and is there an older brother??Oh, and does anyone else think Janine is connected to Moriarty?
Confirmed for 2 more series.
Well, she could have just knocked him out like she did with Magnuson...she'd clearly be capable of doing such a thing. I mean, shooting him in the chest is rather extreme!
Thing is I really liked the twist - I liked that it was her, and that she had a dark history, and that Watson is drawn to that sort of stuff etc etc.... I'd have just rather seen them go the whole hog and have her actually try and kill Sherlock (who could have been waring a vest) but failing that, just knock him out...
I hope in S4 they at least give some time to the fact that Sherlock is now a murderer...that should change things surely?
She shot him so she could escape and John would be non the wiser. It's John she loves, not sherlock.
So how does that "save his life" exactly?...And if she was "saving his life" - as Sherlock seemed convinced she was - why was there a lengthly Mind-Palace sequence detailing how Sherlock needed to use all his wits and intelligence to avoid certain death?
Also bringing back a camp panto villain after killing off a genuinely imposing and sinister one is a backwards step IMO. Though judging by Twitter, everyone else seems to love this Moriarty.
Also bringing back a camp panto villain after killing off a genuinely imposing and sinister one is a backwards step IMO. Though judging by Twitter, everyone else seems to love this Moriarty.
At least we now know that if your brother secretly runs the country you can get away with murder.
Yeah, but that's cool, cos we're on his side. We're also apparently on the side of a freelance assassin with a history of unspeakable murder, but that's cool she's in love now, and a man who shot a businessman in the face because he got outsmarted by him, but that's also cool cos he did it for his mate. Well, actually for his mate's aforementioned murdering wife, but that's cool because.....erm.....well the guy seemed really creepy or something. And he weed in a fireplace.
In fact, all the heinous acts perpetrated in this episode were by people we were supposed to be rooting for.
In fact, all the heinous acts perpetrated in this episode were by people we were supposed to be rooting for.
She should have just knocked him out... like she did with Magnusson.
I like this Moriaty... even though it is very much Pantomine. I would have preferd to see more Magnusson though... far more cold, chilling and very hateable. In his mind palace scene (which was terrific) you got a good sense that this is someone who is Holmes equal... probably why I was so disappointed by him just being shot in the head.
Aren't you assuming she's freelance? I think it's implied that she's ex-secret service.
Killing Magnusson because he knows some stuff about her seems pretty freelance, not to mention incredibly immoral. It's also said in his Mind Palace scene when he's going over her "file" - "oooh, she's gone a bit freelance now"
The mind palace stuff was nonsense though. Even with an excellent memory there's only so much you can read in a lifetime, are we expected to believe that a man who seems to spend a lot his time in meetings with relatively unimportant people (Sherlock and his mates missus aren't exactly running the world), and the rest of his time pissing in fireplaces or sitting on big sofas really has the time to to read files on absolutely everyone? Sherlocks mind palace is only believable because it's mostly, like, weather and graphs and shit.
I agree it's a little step back though killing Magnusson because he was a fantastic villian and I think he had room to be developed much more.
I'm not, Mary was about to kill Magnusson until Sherlock turned up, so she "saved his life" by shooting him instead. Whether she got to follow through with it or not, her motivations remained the same. We basically spent the whole episode rooting for people who murder their rivals when they can't outsmart them. Is that Sherlock Holmes? Is that even good BBC prime time family drama?
Perhaps it was a little more Bourne identity than Sherlock Holmes at times but meh, it's cracking entertainment and 8:30-10pm means the majority of the show is past watershed.
To be fair, Magnusson is dead and Sherlock isn't. Who's smarter now?!
Also, if his plots are anything to go on, how bad are Moffats relationships? In the latest episode of Sherlock Watson and his missus spent months not talking before everyone suddenly being happy. Makes Wolverine seem emotionally mature.
Well, the two main characters in Coupling are called Steven and Susan (Moffat's wife is producer Sue Vertue) so it shouldn't be too hard to work out.
I'm not entirely sure why she wanted to kill him in the first place. Wasn't she on YouTube a few episodes back helping Sherlock drag Watson from a bonfire?
I think some of you are expecting the show to be smarter than it actually is. It's great entertainment but there's always been huge leaps in imagination required to avoid picking holes in the plot.
I think some of you are expecting the show to be smarter than it actually is. It's great entertainment but there's always been huge leaps in imagination required to avoid picking holes in the plot.
It was a great episode until the ending.
There's a difference between not expecting plot holes and not expecting to be rooting for the murderers. Or to expect the consequences of murdering to be dismissed in 2 minutes because OMG, AN OLD CHARACTER THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PLOT, OMG!!
I don't actually have any moral qualms about this tbf, I just thought it was pretty rubbish.