I know Moyes knows Fellaini better than us but I don't think the lad is an adequate partner for Carrick. The partnership is not dynamic enough. Carrick's game is based on positioning rather than movement and the team suffers by having him paired with a player who hasn't exactly epitomized dynamism in his short career with us. The pair sits way too deep leaving far too much space for the opposing midfield to exploit; and in the process require the front players to drop too deep in search of the ball. We need our forwards to occupy the the third and final quarters of the pitch more. Our midfield cannot afford to have two sitting midfielders, our game then becomes static and sideways. Cleverly is a better partner for Carrick at the moment, IMO. He offers movement without necessarily being physical which helps us establish a certain degree of tempo to our game and also allows our attacking players to push further forward.
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I know Moyes knows Fellaini better than us but I don't think the lad is an adequate partner for Carrick. The partnership is not dynamic enough. Carrick's game is based on positioning rather than movement and the team suffers by having him paired with a player who hasn't exactly epitomized dynamism in his short career with us. The pair sits way too deep leaving far too much space for the opposing midfield to exploit; and in the process require the front players to drop too deep in search of the ball. We need our forwards to occupy the the third and final quarters of the pitch more. Our midfield cannot afford to have two sitting midfielders, our game then becomes static and sideways. Cleverly is a better partner for Carrick at the moment, IMO. He offers movement without necessarily being physical which helps us establish a certain degree of tempo to our game and also allows our attacking players to push further forward.
Could Moyes' preference for Buttner be explained by his fondness for attacking full backs a la Baines and Coleman? The only problem with that, however, is that they can also defend.
I have my doubts Fabio is currently that much better defensively anyway, he clearly has more potential though which is why I'd prefer to see him included.
I have my doubts Fabio is currently that much better defensively anyway, he clearly has more potential though which is why I'd prefer to see him included.
I tend to agree, I think Cleverly offers more in partnership with Carrick than Fellani & I'm not one of his biggest fans. I doubt anyone would be wanting to pay even half what we paid for Fellani for Cleverly either.
Nearly all the fees we pay in the transfer market always seem exclusive to us only, overpaying for players is nothing new at United. Besides what matters is what these players offer to the team rather than their market valuation. Cleverly is a home grown talent who is a better partner to Carrick not by the virtue of being a better player than Fellaini but by having a different style of play.
It has no bearing on the situation in either case. Probably blindly accepting is the more sane outcome, rather than going down a path of hypotheticals and then getting caught in a moany tangle of arguing about speculation. Players could be injured, not match fit, tired, sick. Nobody really knows except Moyes. Whoever he chooses to go with he goes with.
I would, but then I am just opening myself up to more fungal tier genitalia gags.
Just in case anyone believed this, it isn't. One of the sky sports channels I believe.
I don't understand thid. Usually the logic is that left footers cross better from the left side, but Fabio crosses better with his left foot so here the logic is lost IMO.
I also agree with this, however its a system which he obviously believes in. Im of the opinion his thinking is that these two will act as the solid pivot and he will expect the movement and creavity to not only come from the 4 players ahead of them, but also the left and right backs who's job it will be to offer a threat from the wide areas, something we are lacking at the moment. With this thought of play I can see that it can work but we need some tweaking in the squad and the way they handle the new system. I can see why now Evras place at left back in under threat. Instead of the conventional 442 with wingers we will gain the width from the full backs position and have our attacking midfielders playing a more inside forwards role. This is how I interpret the carrick/ fellani partnership.
Ultimately he needs time to shape his squad and let his system have some time to gel and take effect.
He may be able to cross with his left foot, most of our players are slighty ambidextrious. However naturally he's right footed so his natural inclination will be to use his right foot, which I believe is what's preventing Moyes from trying him at LB. I don't buy he crosses better with his left foot when he isn't naturally left footed.
Better than Buttner with his left foot I meant.
SS4
I'm better than Buttner.
I honestly believe the reason I gave is why Moyes is unwilling to give him a go. PLus hit fitness has never been the best, he always seems to get niggling injuries.
I would argue that this problem isn't necessarily down to the midfield personnel, but instead how deep our defence is sitting. Especially when Rio is playing the two centrebacks sit very deep and the midfielders have to do likewise in order to prevent there being too much space in-between the lines. Obviously this is turn forces the forwards to also come deeper to receive the ball when we win it back and leaves us with fewer passing options in the final third when we break quickly.
Having said that, I agree that Cleverley's inclusion would help, I think a Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley trio would be ideal in Europe as long as we play a creative front 3 (some combination of RvP, Rooney, Nani and Kagawa) ahead of them.
I'd prefer Carrick, Cleverley and Jones, with Jones being able to drop back into CB, the fullbacks can bomb forward allowing our wide forwards to move into central areas and dictate our attacking game.
I doubt our actual CBs would appreciate having to switch back and forth between a two-man and three-man central defence like that. It would play havoc with their positioning and inevitably lead to feck-ups.
Surely it makes more sense to just play Fellaini and instruct him to play a strict DM job, and if you want more bodies in midfield than usual then add Cleverley to make a 433, as jeff suggested.
I'd love if we managed to wrap this up in 15 minutes so I could switch to the City v Bayern match.
Most likely I'll be watching for 90 minutes.
Most likely I'll be watching for 90 minutes.
It's saying something when a United supporter would prefer to watch Shitty.
Strange attitude, no?
I'll have United on the TV and City on the laptop. Their game will probably be more entertaining than ours but can't not watch United.
Yeah I'll just throw Sky Player on for the Utd match and throw the City v Bayern game on the TV.
It seems like it'll be a more exciting match, is all, that may not be the case though.
Can't get my head around that, to be honest.
Of course, it can't happen overnight and I'm not sure I'm entirely in favour of it myself, but what you described isn't far different from what I said apart from you'd rather Fellaini than Jones. The point is that the extra man in midfield can drop into cb when the full backs bomb forward to account for the 'inside' wide forwards. Leave it all up to Clev and Carrick plus two proper wide forwards (that have to stay out wide to maintain width) and we would struggle for creativity IMO.
------Smalling Jones Vidic------
Rafael ----------------------Evra
--------Carrick Cleverley-------
------------- Kagawa--------------
-------Rooney Van Perise-------
Is sort of of how I envisage it. Just a random thought really, not really advocating we use it any time soon.
There's probably nothing wrong with watching a more entertaining game, but I can't wrap my head around watching anybody else if the team you support is playing. I'd miss Barca-Dortmund to watch United play!
I bet if Cina gets tickets for OT and watches another game on Sky Go on his phone.
I'll be watching the Utd game, first and foremost, of course, and just stick the other one on my laptop, but if we're in a comfortable position, I'll just switch them around and watch the other game on TV with sound.
Don't be silly, I'd play Plants vs Zombies.
As long as we were winning 2-0, obviously.
Move Jones up to the base of the midfield and it becomes a diamond with all of Rooney, RVP and Kagawa on the pitch, in areas they enjoy too. I don't think it's too bad for a away European tie and it's stops us relying on our under performing wingers (apart from Nani, Januzaj isn't eligible) whilst having a solid core.
I highly doubt we will ever see that lineup and formation.
Jones instead of who?
He makes it even more defensive.
With all the attacking strength that we have, that's an awful waste. Henandez, Welbeck, Nani, Janujaz, Valencia, Young, Zaha, etc
Three at the back would allow Rafael and Evra even more license to get forward, would solve the problem of our underperforming wingers and allow the likes of Smalling and Jones more game time in the centre of defence. Doubt we'll ever see it though.
Instead of no one, just move him up. It has the the same number of attacking players as a normal 433 with Carrick, Cleverley and Fellaini, which was the original suggestion! What I'm suggesting is just a way to get our better central players on the pitch in areas they enjoy rather than rely on our underperforming wingers and have our fullbacks providing width with sufficient cover.
I'm all for Rafael getting forward more but Evra really isn't that effective going forward.
Besides, the whole reason we bought Fellaini (you'd assume) was to help shield the defense and there are plenty of other formations we can use that will eliminate the reliance on our wingers and don't require using a 3 man central defense.
I hope we never go with 3 central defenders, ever.
So? We picked Rooney, Kagawa, Welbeck and van Persie in the same lineup away at Madrid but you'd hardly call that an attacking side the way they lined up on the pitch.
-------------DDG-------------
Rafael----Evans---Vidic----Evra
--Carrick---Fellaini---Cleverly--
Nani---------RVP--------Rooney
Bench: Lindegaard, Jones, Smalling, Valencia, Kagawa, Hernandez, Welbeck
Rafael----Evans---Vidic----Evra
--Carrick---Fellaini---Cleverly--
Nani---------RVP--------Rooney
Bench: Lindegaard, Jones, Smalling, Valencia, Kagawa, Hernandez, Welbeck
tbh I just wanna win a game of football 
tbh I just wanna win a game of football
If we play the right back four we will have a great chance. That's where all our problems this season are stemming from.
What? That's the opinion of someone who's been watching Evra for so long he's stopped noticing him. When he's playing well (which he has been for a few seasons now) half our attacks come through him. Aside from an in-form Nani, he's the best dribbler we have. Repeatedly drifts past a player or two on his forays forward.Not really, we've massively lacked creativity too.
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