The only way those become available is by offering silly money. I'm talking world record fees. PSG don't need to sell, and he doesn't want to leave. Atletico might be easier to tempt, but Griezmann has just signed a new contract. It would take an amount comparable to what we're shelling out for Pogba. "If someone becomes available" then it means the club wants to sell, so naturally the fee is reduced. But there's no way that happens with players such as these.
Set of players we can buy for €120m - would you still want Pogba?
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The only way those become available is by offering silly money. I'm talking world record fees. PSG don't need to sell, and he doesn't want to leave. Atletico might be easier to tempt, but Griezmann has just signed a new contract. It would take an amount comparable to what we're shelling out for Pogba. "If someone becomes available" then it means the club wants to sell, so naturally the fee is reduced. But there's no way that happens with players such as these.
People need to understand or get it through their heads that we're not in the CL this season. The team we're hopefully creating should qualify. It has to qualify while in the process, challenge for the league and cups. It's a statement signing but we're also trying to get a top player and it's not easy. What we do this summer, won't effect our ability to compete for transfers in Jan or the following summer transfer window etc. We could get Drexler, Kante and maybe someone else and maybe we will!
I did a quick google search for Pogba. It returns over 14 million hits. I did one for Draxler and Kante and combined they are just over 800k. The level of interest is huge. What young talented French lad, wouldn't want Martial or Pogba in their team? Since the Ronaldo sale, we've made mistakes but if we see this through, then psychologically it will be a real boost and we'll see others improving as a consequence. What people forget though, is that if we sell 1/2/3 players....then we can still buy if we wanted too. It's not 100 at the expense of all else. We've ear marked 4 places but more business depends on sales. We might actually find that harder now because I don't think anyone will want to leave.
Pogba represents so much to France and I think it helps us keep this team together. Doing what some would call, the sensible thing - might even work out better, BUT would it inspire people? It wasn't so long ago people were raving about Morgan. Him and Kante wouldn't offer much going forward but playing by Pogba (a French team mate), might help him settle. It would be more in our interest to get the best out of players we already have.
Finally some mention Kroos - why would Madrid sell him and why would they deal with us or even give us a fair price?...
I did a quick google search for Pogba. It returns over 14 million hits. I did one for Draxler and Kante and combined they are just over 800k. The level of interest is huge. What young talented French lad, wouldn't want Martial or Pogba in their team? Since the Ronaldo sale, we've made mistakes but if we see this through, then psychologically it will be a real boost and we'll see others improving as a consequence. What people forget though, is that if we sell 1/2/3 players....then we can still buy if we wanted too. It's not 100 at the expense of all else. We've ear marked 4 places but more business depends on sales. We might actually find that harder now because I don't think anyone will want to leave.
Pogba represents so much to France and I think it helps us keep this team together. Doing what some would call, the sensible thing - might even work out better, BUT would it inspire people? It wasn't so long ago people were raving about Morgan. Him and Kante wouldn't offer much going forward but playing by Pogba (a French team mate), might help him settle. It would be more in our interest to get the best out of players we already have.
Finally some mention Kroos - why would Madrid sell him and why would they deal with us or even give us a fair price?...
Griezman and Verrati if available at 50 mil, then there is almost 0% for us to get them. The other big boys would be over it.
Edit: Quoted wrong post.
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Again this all fulls down to a matter of opinion, I honestly feel that Griezmann would never sell for or even close to a world record fee, realistically I feel (if he is ever sold) he would sell in the region of €60-€70m and I feel the same for Verratti €50-€60m.
The problem with this sort of logic is that you can only field 11 players on the pitch
Rather we sign Eden Hazard than Shinji Kagawa personally.
Injuries will force Mourinho's hand at some point this season. One to Martial or Mkhitaryan means we're lost at playing proper wingers. Injury to Schneiderlin means we don't have a young established ball winning midfielder to compliment the box-to-box role. A trio of very good performers would provide that, alongside rotation in the first XI itself.
Some people got stuck in FM. Verrati is one of the best deep play makers in this next generation. Currently at rich club, who spent over 50 mil pound for David fecking Luiz. Bought some expensive players few years ago and benched them. Extended the contract with a manager to sack him few months later and paid 20+ mil to terminate his contract. 50 mil - 60 mil for Verrati
Griezmann's old release clause was around 60 mil already IIRC. Who knows what monstrous figure it has been raised to now he just renewed his contract?! You need to persuade the other club and the players. This is real market with real money.
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Rationality is relative. You are judging rationality of a billion $ corporation by your own standards. Goods is worth as much as someone's willing to pay. If Man Utd believe Pogba is worth 100m and are willing to pay that, then he's worth 100m. If I want a Ferrari and I have the money to burn, then why should I buy a Toyota Yaris? Because it's more rational? Based on what? The income of an average person?
So that's my 2 cents on the issue. Don't really care about the money being thrown around by football clubs. If they can afford it, fine by me. Bring in Pogba.
Pogbas marketing potential is unbelievable. . if he can perform on the pitch. . he'll make us shit loads in terms of shirt sales etc. His style of play is very fan friendly too.. so if all things go well I don't see the huge fee as an issue especially with his age taken into account.
Throughout the years we've seen United changing strategy at least twice. We had SAF's value strategy which saw us keeping old players past their expiry date and replacing the likes of Giggs (on the flanks) and Ronaldo with 'talent' like Young and Valencia. The likes of Aguero, Hazard and co were just too expensive for us especially since it also meant giving money to agents for services rendered. Afterwards we went in full panic mode, spending millions on players who were either not good enough (Fellaini) or couldn't fit in our system (Mata and ADM) just because we could. That didn't served us well either.
I believe that Mou is introducing a third way. He's bringing the quality players he need, if possible, as a bargain.Ibra, Bailly and Mkhitaryan were probably the best EPL bargains this year. However if there's that quality talent who would fit our system perfectly and he's available then the fee shouldn't be an issue. That's how top clubs should work. The biggest club in the world can neither be skint nor stupid.
Some people are underestimating Pogba. He's the typical complete type of midfielder (he's strong, he's fast, he's technically gifted, he's got workrate, he's got great passing ability etc), he's at the right age and the fact that he had already been in Manchester, he won't struggle to adapt. Also he's a homegrown talent (its rare these days that we've got top quality homegrown talent). He's also a big name signing which United merchandising machine will milk to its fullest and which would show the world that United is back.
I believe that Mou is introducing a third way. He's bringing the quality players he need, if possible, as a bargain.Ibra, Bailly and Mkhitaryan were probably the best EPL bargains this year. However if there's that quality talent who would fit our system perfectly and he's available then the fee shouldn't be an issue. That's how top clubs should work. The biggest club in the world can neither be skint nor stupid.
Some people are underestimating Pogba. He's the typical complete type of midfielder (he's strong, he's fast, he's technically gifted, he's got workrate, he's got great passing ability etc), he's at the right age and the fact that he had already been in Manchester, he won't struggle to adapt. Also he's a homegrown talent (its rare these days that we've got top quality homegrown talent). He's also a big name signing which United merchandising machine will milk to its fullest and which would show the world that United is back.
I will go for Pogba too over the other combo packages available if I were to spend 100 million. Premier League club signing a player who Madrid, Bayern and Barca will kill to have is something that never happens. We only ever get second tier players (Depay, De Bruyne, Kagawa, Coutinho etc) or superstars being moved out of those big three clubs (Di Maria, Sanchez, Fabregas etc). It does matter and it reflects pretty well in how premier league teams perform in Champions League.
If we are to talk about if its right to spend 100m on him, it is not like Mourinho is not aware of how much Pogba will cost and it is not like he isn't aware of what other players he could get for a sum of 100 million. Maybe he is building for a certain squad and Pogba is a must. Maybe the plethora of other players being mentioned aren't available, are not willing to come to united or maybe their clubs are also asking crazy money for them. If Mourinho wants Pogba, it has to be Pogba.
If we are to talk about if its right to spend 100m on him, it is not like Mourinho is not aware of how much Pogba will cost and it is not like he isn't aware of what other players he could get for a sum of 100 million. Maybe he is building for a certain squad and Pogba is a must. Maybe the plethora of other players being mentioned aren't available, are not willing to come to united or maybe their clubs are also asking crazy money for them. If Mourinho wants Pogba, it has to be Pogba.
Some people got stuck in FM. Verrati is one of the best deep play makers in this next generation. Currently at rich club, who spent over 50 mil pound for David fecking Luiz. Bought some expensive players few years ago and benched them. Extended the contract with a manager to sack him few months later and paid 20+ mil to terminate his contract. 50 mil - 60 mil for Verrati
Why are you laughing?
Not so long ago we sold Di Maria for a similar fee to PSG. Yet Di Maria is arguably a bigger name in football currently.
The likes of Griezmann and Verratti shouldn't be in this conversation.
The former just signed a new contract with a huge buyout clause. The latter is the best player at PSG, so, will cost at least as much as Pogba.
The former just signed a new contract with a huge buyout clause. The latter is the best player at PSG, so, will cost at least as much as Pogba.
I don't see Jose giving Pierrera much chance, Mata is likely to be sold anyway & Lingard wouldn't get into the top club's teams even as a squad player. He's about an Everton level.
Rashford can play out wide, but given Mourinho prefers players to stay in position I'm sure he'd hate doing so.
Payet had one great season and a great EURO but that's his peak and the only way for him is down. And West ham would bleed us dry for him. As long as we plan to use Rooney we dont need another AM.
Draxler for me is nothing special, and would be a weird purchase. He wouldn't start with the assortment of players we have right now for the four attacking positions and from the bench in the next season I would rather give some wide game time to Young/Depay/Januzaj.
Kante also had great season but for the style of play I hope we are aspiring to he doesn't offer much in the attack, and we still have Schneiderlin who I hope will come good and get back to his Southampton form. If he will we don't need new DM. As Krychowiak signed for PSG and will definitely play for the same money I would take Matuidi who offers a little more all around than Kante.
This. People forget that we've been so tight in the past. We missed on Robben. Ronaldinho. Batistuta. Because we've been tight. Madrid get the player and very often Barcelona because they do what it takes. We tried for Muller and Muller was interested but Munich would never consider it because they don't want what happened to us to happen to them. So it would be somewhat like finally doing the right thing after giving Ronaldo away for 80 Million.
The problem is that we don't know how much some of these players might cost, others mentioned simply won't be sold also, which just makes it pointless.
Saying that we could get Kante, Draxler and Payet for that price could be true, but might not. Draxler is a top talent I believe, and if his club think the same, they could hold out for top money for him. Payet is at West Ham who are chucking money at everything, so they'd be unlikely to sell unless a big offer was made (for a 29 year old).
Mentioning Kroos and Verrati is also pointless, they'd cost an absolute fortune and are not for sale anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I'd actually take Kante and Draxler alone over Pogba, but it's not necessarily a choice we have to make, and Pogba is a truly world class player with his best years ahead, who will be a huge draw for United and the Premier league, as well as making a huge statement. I still think that this whole situation will be resolved, however, as soon as enough fuss has been made to force Madrid to meet the price that Juventus want for him.
Saying that we could get Kante, Draxler and Payet for that price could be true, but might not. Draxler is a top talent I believe, and if his club think the same, they could hold out for top money for him. Payet is at West Ham who are chucking money at everything, so they'd be unlikely to sell unless a big offer was made (for a 29 year old).
Mentioning Kroos and Verrati is also pointless, they'd cost an absolute fortune and are not for sale anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I'd actually take Kante and Draxler alone over Pogba, but it's not necessarily a choice we have to make, and Pogba is a truly world class player with his best years ahead, who will be a huge draw for United and the Premier league, as well as making a huge statement. I still think that this whole situation will be resolved, however, as soon as enough fuss has been made to force Madrid to meet the price that Juventus want for him.
For the record, I don't believe Pogba is close to being worth the money quoted. But we're also lucky that we've minimal competition for his signature at this point in time. Our squad lacks such quality at the moment.
Besides, purchasing such a player will be very helpful in convincing the next marquee player to join this club.
Besides, purchasing such a player will be very helpful in convincing the next marquee player to join this club.
Its fair to assume there is a very good chance Payet will maintain this level for at least a couple more seasons before going down to the trajectory you refer to. West Ham wouldn't blow us dry the way Juve are for Pogba - we'l still have a budget after him to get say, Kante too.
Januzaj would never get gametime ahead of Draxler (rightly so really). Young is what, 32 and injury prone and Depay played the whole of last season like he's drunk. I'm quite concerned what will happen when any combination of Mkhitaryan/Martial/Schneiderlin get injured and a big game is round the corner.
True he doesn't offer as much, but him and Payet as a double transfer will offer just as much and provide better cover. Not to mention you can also get any 3 of Matuidi/Payet/Draxler/Mahrez conceivably for the Pogba price and still cover more bases. £100m on a very good central midfielder is just insane, even for us.
Anyone quoting verratti as a potential transfer needs to get their head checked. The reason we can get pogba is because he belongs to a feeder club like Juventus. Juventus is another athletico madrid/dortmund who don't want to sell their best players but have to when big money is involved. Psg don't need to sell any player as they can rival any offer.
On players like Kante/payet it would be very advisable to stay away from such. They reek of schneiderlin, especially kante. Payet is good but he's not worldclass. No argument. We can do much better.
Pogba is not worth 100 million but if that's the price we got to pay to acquire a 24 year old balon d'or participant then so be it. This is the kind of transfer United has been wanting to make for almost three years now.
On players like Kante/payet it would be very advisable to stay away from such. They reek of schneiderlin, especially kante. Payet is good but he's not worldclass. No argument. We can do much better.
Pogba is not worth 100 million but if that's the price we got to pay to acquire a 24 year old balon d'or participant then so be it. This is the kind of transfer United has been wanting to make for almost three years now.
out the 3 mentioned only Kante i would want, Draxler is similar to Nani, never no what your going to get, one week brilliant then for 2/3 weeks hes poor, plus think he has a £60m buy out clause, Payet again we would need pay around £50m to get him in, look at what west ham are offering to try get players in, plus i think he is around 29 and had one good season. would rather pay 40m and sign Mahrez least if it did not work out we would get some re-sale value.
Rationality is relative. You are judging rationality of a billion $ corporation by your own standards. Goods is worth as much as someone's willing to pay. If Man Utd believe Pogba is worth 100m and are willing to pay that, then he's worth 100m. If I want a Ferrari and I have the money to burn, then why should I buy a Toyota Yaris? Because it's more rational? Based on what? The income of an average person?
So that's my 2 cents on the issue. Don't really care about the money being thrown around by football clubs. If they can afford it, fine by me. Bring in Pogba.
Exactly.
No one is saying that we should be prioritizing Verratti, we where asked a question on what combination would you prefer over just Pogba, no mention on if they are available, just wanted our general opinion on Pogba for €120m or any combination for a combined €120m.
Mahrez I think has a buyout clause for far less than 40m IIRC? Not sure if Mahrez will repeat what he did last season, but even he can be a good shout alongside say, Matuidi (kante)/Payet.
Di Maria flopped and wanted out and LVG didn't want to keep neither. Di Maria is never associated with the best in his position. Not the best winger, not he best wing forward. Had a world class (whatever best word you can use), but not the best in his position. Moved to us as club record fee and flop. His fee is fair for his value at the time.
We're talking about players who is happy where they want to be and clubs who don't need to sell. You here gonna offer them similar money to their bench players. Verrati is one if not the best deep play maker of his generation. How is it not laughable?
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Perfect answer to the OP. Agreed 100%.
First and foremost I completely agree that Pogba's marketing potential is out of the roof and as Madrid have proved time and again those big money transfers can be turned into profit in a very short time.
Secondly, I have stated before in some other threads, the talent available at the moment is very very scarce. I know there is huge inflation in transfer fees but nowadays some fringe players that are probably not good enough to play in the Premierleague cost 20-30, even 40 mln quid. I have thought a lot during the last two years and apart from Di Maria I could not think of somebody who could really decide games for us. Griezman is a very good footballer but that's it, I do not see him as someone of the highest order, I can say the same about Veratti, he is a good player but he is not someone who can decide games for us. The only two players in my opinion that are real world class apart from Pogba are Kroos and Bale but I do not think we can get them. I really liked Renato Sanchez as he has huge potential but we missed on him so we have to look forward.
And here is Pogba, I remember I had a chance to listen to Clayton Blackmore in one of the matches I was able to attend and he described Pogba as the perfect footballer- very strong physically, either footed, extraordinary creativity and great vision, good passing range, long shots, free kicks, absolutely everything and I agree with that. The problem is that I have watched him a lot during the last two years and he is magnificent against smaller teams but tend to disappear in the big games and he has some improving to the . I am also afraid he can turn to a Balotelli flop because footballers nowadays tend to choose the easier option and are not like Ronaldo, Beckham, and so on, and so on who trained basically 10-12 hours a day. If he steps up and fulfills his talent he will be the best in the game.
Therefore I really think we should sign him no matter what because I cannot see somebody else who can improve us the way he can because simply there is not enough talent in world football today. Why that is the case is a matter of another topic...
Secondly, I have stated before in some other threads, the talent available at the moment is very very scarce. I know there is huge inflation in transfer fees but nowadays some fringe players that are probably not good enough to play in the Premierleague cost 20-30, even 40 mln quid. I have thought a lot during the last two years and apart from Di Maria I could not think of somebody who could really decide games for us. Griezman is a very good footballer but that's it, I do not see him as someone of the highest order, I can say the same about Veratti, he is a good player but he is not someone who can decide games for us. The only two players in my opinion that are real world class apart from Pogba are Kroos and Bale but I do not think we can get them. I really liked Renato Sanchez as he has huge potential but we missed on him so we have to look forward.
And here is Pogba, I remember I had a chance to listen to Clayton Blackmore in one of the matches I was able to attend and he described Pogba as the perfect footballer- very strong physically, either footed, extraordinary creativity and great vision, good passing range, long shots, free kicks, absolutely everything and I agree with that. The problem is that I have watched him a lot during the last two years and he is magnificent against smaller teams but tend to disappear in the big games and he has some improving to the . I am also afraid he can turn to a Balotelli flop because footballers nowadays tend to choose the easier option and are not like Ronaldo, Beckham, and so on, and so on who trained basically 10-12 hours a day. If he steps up and fulfills his talent he will be the best in the game.
Therefore I really think we should sign him no matter what because I cannot see somebody else who can improve us the way he can because simply there is not enough talent in world football today. Why that is the case is a matter of another topic...
What many fails to understand is how many trophies would we have won if we weren't so tight. Imagine what United would have won if instead of the decent Andy Cole we had world class Batigol upfront. Imagine what the treble team would have won if we brought top quality replacements for Schmeichel, Irwin and Johnson instead of wasting time and money on the likes of Bosnich (who ended up ruining Yorke) and Silvestre. The irony is that
a- if we collected all the money we spent for the likes of Taibi (4.5m), Barthez (9m), Carroll and Foster (a couple of millions) and co we would have probably ended up with a top quality goalkeeper just the same. That excluding salaries paid and trophies missed
b- In most cases we still ended up spending the millions just the same. Wes, Silvestre and OShit didn't sort our defense, Rio (30m), Vidic (7m), Evra (7m) and Heinze (7m) did. Same in midfield. Cleverley, Ando, sick Fletcher and old Scholes and Giggs didn't sort our midfield. It only contributed in frustrating Pogba (who might return if we fork 100m) and ended up sending United managers in panic mode as we threw money all over the place to try and sort that big hole.
That's exactly what I've been saying for more then a decade in here.
This would be my team
Why would you want Rooney in midfield? Are you related to him?
I remember when we sold Ronaldo and people said we could buy loads of players with the money, that we got a good dea? I said that was rubbish at the time and still think that. Taking aside what Ronaldo achieved on the field for Real, the commercial revenue he generated since he left paid off well for Real Madrid. Point is, when you are buying one of the elite player's in world football at a young age, you pay top dollar. He's the most talented central midfielder in world footballer right now, in a current climate where top players in that position are not in huge abundance.
If he stays 10 years and helps us win major honours it's worth it.If he becomes the best player in the world and wants to leave in 3 years, his resale value will be just as big a fee.
You can work out how many players we could buy with the apparent bid, but you would be overlooking the money the club will make on the commercial side. If we couldn't afford it, we wouldn't be after him.
Pogba is a beast of a player. If we get him, I'm confident we will win the league next year. We will simply have too much quality, Jose is a top manager and his recruitment so far has been excellent. Pogba will take us to the next level. I'm very confident of that. I still have my doubts that the deal will be done, Di Marzio tweeting or not.
If he stays 10 years and helps us win major honours it's worth it.If he becomes the best player in the world and wants to leave in 3 years, his resale value will be just as big a fee.
You can work out how many players we could buy with the apparent bid, but you would be overlooking the money the club will make on the commercial side. If we couldn't afford it, we wouldn't be after him.
Pogba is a beast of a player. If we get him, I'm confident we will win the league next year. We will simply have too much quality, Jose is a top manager and his recruitment so far has been excellent. Pogba will take us to the next level. I'm very confident of that. I still have my doubts that the deal will be done, Di Marzio tweeting or not.
No we are talking about what combination of players would you prefer over Pogba for a combined fee, not who is available, weather they are happy or not etc. It is all hypothetical anyway. As I stated and will carry on stating Verratti and Griezmann would be my prefered option over JUST Pogba. (for the fees I quoted, and stand by too).
You don't need to look far. Fellaini 25+ mil, Mata 35+ mil, Herrera 30 mil, Schneiderlin 25 mil, Di Maria 1 season loan around 15 mil are roughly the Pogba money.
Di Maria is expendable for PSG, Verrati isnt.
Payet can keep his level for a season or two, but he is not the answer to our problems. Pogba on the other hand can reach a few higher levels, lasts longer, and is a marketing heaven of a player. Would be a real statement signing for United and along with Ibra and Mkhi, every club and player would sit up and take notice, United mean business again.
I didn't said Januzaj would get game time ahead of Draxler if Draxler was here. I just said I don't want Draxler to come as we dont need him as we have enough bodies for wide positions.
Kante as I said I would pass especially if Matuidi is available.
And for all jokers quoting 50-60 mil EUR prices for Veratti and Griezmann just stop it. Veratti is untransferable. Just ask Barca and how they tried to get Thiago Silva out of PSG. You even can't buy a fecking Marqinhos off them. Griezmann would cost 80-100 mil easily if he went to BPL as every top club would bid for him. But as soon as Simeone signed that was the end of hoping for his transfer.
You mean Falcao was the £15m loan. We almost broke even with Di Maria.
No we didn't. Not really.
The talk of 'breaking even' on Di Maria was based on his written down value, having seen out one year of his contract.
Anyone mentioning Griezmann in here is having a laugh, he's just signed a new deal and it'd probably take the same kind of money to buy him as is being talked about for Pogba.