Serie A 90's QF - Idmanager vs Enigma_87/The Red Viper

[antohan]

Two of them for 1-0. He was in Genoa, not AC Milan.
When your strikers don't score, you usually lose.

The games they won, they scored 3 in each. The games they lost, they scored 1 in 3.
He is not Baresi to defend, assist and score.

I don't like discussing based on stats mate without taking the context which I think you are doing.
I'd leave the Collovati discussion and the role he is assigned here for the voters to decide. Cheers.

TBH, the weight of evidence is on him not being particularly good. I get the point he was old and old players need to rotate, but it looks like he simply was a backup player. A poor choice at this stage even if he technically makes the cut. 40 starts should have been the cut I guess.

Not a fan of the stats either but his manager not starting him is telling, while complaining the strikers didn't score precisely when he played may well indicate an attack suffering from problems in defence limiting the ability of the likes of Eranio and Branco to fully support them.

 

[antohan]

But he wasn't even on the pitch in 17 of those 23 games and only played 9 mins in the other. He wasn't even involved or broke into the squad for 2 of them.

He's up against one of the best attackers in the 90's in Totti, Balbo and Vialli and I'm afraid playing in a sample size of what 10 games as a starter is pretty poor record.

It's not only him, Favalli is mainly a left back, able to fit in as CB. Sure he can play in that role, but he's not Maldini and Ayala played for a Napoli side which was in disarray and fighting for relegation.

I don't think it sounds crazy that whenever our attackers take a stab at your back line it could end in tears. There isn't a defensive leader, nor the quality to pull a 3 men back line, not to mention Collovati at 34 having to also provide cover wide, whilst on a fringe form and not able to even string a half a season together in the time span.

Your midfield is great mate, and also attack is looking pretty good, but that defence is a real let down, especially when you consider the keeper as well.

You are getting giddy there. Nothing wrong with them and what they are supposed to do.

 

[sincher]

Nedved, possibly gesturing with his mouth and showing why Rossi might have been confused.

 

[antohan]

After reading the article about Inter that onenil posted in main thread, I'm thinking Bergomi/Ferri may not be as monstrous as it looks on paper. In here Bergomi is playing without the support of a wingback. This calls for more Zonal defending which the article says he's not really good at. I don't think him stepping out to handle Nedved and Ferri covering in would be effective. Edit, when Bergomi actually as a RCB in back 3, he had Battistini (a true sweeper) behind him.

On the flip side, Collovati seems to balance the scale again.

Where is that? Maybe I should give it a read, I spent some time mulling over whether Bergomi wouldn't be better in the middle role but can't quite make up my mind.

Edit: actually, I'm positive he would, but not sure where that leaves Ferri at RCB.

 

[Indnyc]

Went with @idmanager after a lot of back and forth. Even though defensively the team isn't as strong, i can see them scoring a lot more. I really like Zola's role here and in Davids and Rijkaard there is a very balanced midfield

 

[antohan]

Finally got around reading the walls of text. Have absolutely no idea what @Enigma_87 and @The Red Viper were smoking when writing up Vialli.

Not sure I like @idmanager's soak and hit them on the break tactic. Seems a waste of that midfield to protects his weakest line, and isolating a front three that would be better off with a more controlling midfield supporting them fully.

 

[idmanager]

@2mufc0

Is it too late to change my formation?
If not, could you please change to this?

 

[antohan]

The upside in that is you no longer have Nedved playing leftback. Because that's what happens if you sit back: Nedved plays leftback and Lombardo plays RM/W most of the game. Not good for you.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Where is that? Maybe I should give it a read, I spent some time mulling over whether Bergomi wouldn't be better in the middle role but can't quite make up my mind.

Edit: actually, I'm positive he would, but not sure where that leaves Ferri at RCB.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/serie-a-90s-draft.435299/page-36#post-22085901

 

[2mufc0]

@2mufc0

Is it too late to change my formation?
If not, could you please change to this?

Done.

 

[antohan]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/serie-a-90s-draft.435299/page-36#post-22085901

That's a good read. I get why @oneniltothearsenal doesn't like Sosa now Very childish not to want to play ball with someone who took himself too seriously. Very Sosa actually.

 

[Enigma_87]

On the phone but to reply on couple of posts

You are getting giddy there. Nothing wrong with them and what they are supposed to do.

Yeah I haven’t said there’s something with wrong with him there mate just underlining our avdantage of having the best fit in that sense in the pool in Maldini.

After reading the article about Inter that onenil posted in main thread, I'm thinking Bergomi/Ferri may not be as monstrous as it looks on paper. In here Bergomi is playing without the support of a wingback. This calls for more Zonal defending which the article says he's not really good at. I don't think him stepping out to handle Nedved and Ferri covering in would be effective. Edit, when Bergomi actually as a RCB in back 3, he had Battistini (a true sweeper) behind him.

On the flip side, Collovati seems to balance the scale again.

Not at all mate. He has the support of Lombardo in transition.

First time I hear Bergomi is bad at zonal defending he played deep in his 30s and changed numerous partners and formations and never looked out of sorts in any of them. Him and Maldini are one of the most complete defenders not only in the pool but all time. Our defensive line gets the protection on the flank by Lombardo and Branco when defending and it’s anchored by Dunga with Matthaus B2B. You’d find it pretty hard to recreate a more solid base given the pool and theme.

 

[antohan]

It was not an auspicious start, though, as our Riccardo, holder of the dubious honour of most ever Serie A own goals (8, ffs! Still might have earned him some lovely brown envelopes), kicked the scoring off in this one with a lovely header from a corner.... the only slight problem being it was a corner slung over by poor old Pavel and was therefore an og all the way.

Jynx

Pub team had nowt to do with that, all your fault.

 

[antohan]

First time I hear Bergomi is bad at zonal defending he played deep in his 30s and changed numerous partners and formations and never looked out of sorts in any of them.

Couldn't say he was bad at zonal defending myself but certainly played in deep and rather crowded defensive setups. That's why I was a bit wary of him having tonnes of space to cover and would rather have him covering whoever does that. Not sure Ferri would be any better but Bergomi's cover would be superior.

In a nutshell, I'd rather have Ferri going walkabout than Bergomi.

 

[idmanager]

Done.

Thanks mate.

 

[Tuppet]

Thats a good change @idmanager Nedved's positioning on the left side in a deep sitting counter team was very weird and rendering one of your best attacker completely ineffective, while not providing any defensive benefits either. Your defense is still not on par with Enigma but your attack looks very good now. Has Zola ever played in right wing ?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Thats a good change @idmanager Nedved's positioning on the left side in a deep sitting counter team was very weird and rendering one of your best attacker completely ineffective, while not providing any defensive benefits either. Your defense is still not on par with Enigma but your attack looks very good now. Has Zola ever played in right wing ?

In a rigid 4-4-2 Zola might have played there a few times under Ancelotti at Parma or Sacchi for Italy but I'm not sure. Ancelotti admits that he let him move to Chelsea as he didn't fit in his system back then. He was excellent at working the right wing and right channels so I can see him doing ok in the new tactic if it's more of a loose 4-2-2-2 like Id played in his last match. Important thing though is that Nedved is unshackled now.

 

[Enigma_87]

Not sure what to make out of the new formation. Zola as RW is less than ideal as he was predominantly a second striker, Nedved in a much better position but Di Livio is suspect as a RB in a back 4 and is covered by the worst defender on the pitch.

 

[Enigma_87]

In a rigid 4-4-2 Zola might have played there a few times under Ancelotti at Parma or Sacchi for Italy but I'm not sure. Ancelotti admits that he let him move to Chelsea as he didn't fit in his system back then. He was excellent at working the right wing and right channels so I can see him doing ok in the new tactic if it's more of a loose 4-2-2-2 like Id played in his last match. Important thing though is that Nedved is unshackled now.

Wasn't the reason why Zola left Parma because he was shunted on the wing? I agree that he was pretty good working into channels, but any other role than nominally central one seems a bit of exactly what happened at Parma and the reason why he left to England.

A bit like Signori being shunted to the left wing, whilst obviously is a player that loved that channel and worked it pretty well.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Di Livio is suspect as a RB in a back 4 and is covered by the worst defender on the pitch.

How will your team take advantage of that?

 

[antohan]

In a rigid 4-4-2 Zola might have played there a few times under Ancelotti at Parma or Sacchi for Italy but I'm not sure. Ancelotti admits that he let him move to Chelsea as he didn't fit in his system back then. He was excellent at working the right wing and right channels so I can see him doing ok in the new tactic if it's more of a loose 4-2-2-2 like Id played in his last match. Important thing though is that Nedved is unshackled now.

I see it more in line with @idmanager's original point on a 4-4-2 morphing into a 3-4-3.

Off the ball it's two lines of 4 (with Zola not offering much defensively but only Branco being there, which Di Livio can handle).

Upon recovery Nedved down the left, Di Livio up the right and Zola drifts to the centre leaving the original back three with Favalli tucking in.

Makes a lot more sense if sitting and hitting on the break is the approach.

 

[Enigma_87]

How will your team take advantage of that?

Erm with Vialli who is our best forward on the pitch working in the exact same channel and between the space left by Di Livio and Collovati? By also targeting Collovati in the same way as in the old formation.

Totti was notorious under Zeman to work on the left wing and isolate the full back so he can beat him and create advantage. During that time he created and scored around 60 goals for 3 seasons.

And no, I doubt Rijkaard will run with him like a mad man when he drops to the left, unless he's on a man marking mission, which will leave Davids pretty much on his own in the center of the park.

Di Livio is better up the pitch, as a wingback or in midfield, or at least he played a bit more advanced roles, the one depicted was more of a Torriceli role than his.

I see it more in line with @idmanager's original point on a 4-4-2 morphing into a 3-4-3.

Off the ball it's two lines of 4 (with Zola not offering much defensively but only Branco being there, which Di Livio can handle).

Upon recovery Nedved down the left, Di Livio up the right and Zola drifts to the centre leaving the original back three with Favalli tucking in.

Makes a lot more sense if sitting and hitting on the break is the approach.

Aye, seems like the same formation only rotated and probably with/without the ball trying to attack/defend through the lines.

 

[antohan]

Whichever way I look at it I keep going back to the tactics being wrong. Great trio upfront, great midfield, but all subordinated to protecting a porous back 5. You don't sit back with that back 5, you can't pull it off.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

That's a good read. I get why @oneniltothearsenal doesn't like Sosa now Very childish not to want to play ball with someone who took himself too seriously. Very Sosa actually.

Indeed

First time I hear Bergomi is bad at zonal defending he played deep in his 30s and changed numerous partners and formations and never looked out of sorts in any of them. Him and Maldini are one of the most complete defenders not only in the pool but all time. Our defensive line gets the protection on the flank by Lombardo and Branco when defending and it’s anchored by Dunga with Matthaus B2B. You’d find it pretty hard to recreate a more solid base given the pool and theme.

I pulled out my copy of Stillness and Speed, Bergkamp's autobiography to see if there was anything more about it and the book basically says the same thing, but its a more nuanced opinion than just "Bergomi is bad at zonal defending".

It was a really interesting time in Italy with Sacchi changing a lot of traditional Italian perceptions. Sacchi's Ajax influenced system of using a back four that marks and presses zonally had a profound influence on Italian theory about defense. Even at Milan there is a passage

In his first months, the Milan old guard were suspicious and defenders like Baresi and Tassotti found it difficult to understand what was being asked of them....Then Berlusconi made his famous intervention..."Sacchi is the trainer for this year and also for next year. As for you guys, I don't know." Then everything changed.

Then for Inter

He (Inter President Pellegrini) lighted upon Corrado Orrico, another philosophical coach, who had brought attacking football to Lucchese in Serie B. But Orrico was no Sacchi and the Inter old guard, not least key defenders Guieseppe Bergomi and Riccardo Ferri, were unimpressed

So from reading this and the IBWM article my conclusion is more that Bergomi was very used to classic Italian systems and did have an easy trying to adapt to Orrico's version of attacking football. After Orrico, Inter then goes with Bagnoli who was the classic old fashioned Italian style. This was as the article mentioned most of the root of the problem with Bergkamp being a bad fit for the system that Inter stuck with. So I think Bergomi just doesn't really have experience in a more Sacchi like zonal system. The issue probably wouldn't even get noticed except for the fact you have Ferri paired who gets mentioned in the same.

Funny side note is how in 95 Bianchi becomes Inter's coach,

Wasn't Bianchi the coach of Napoli when Maradona was there?
"Yes, he did mention that a few times...every hour.

I forgot how great that book was, definitely one of the better footballer bios.

 

[Moby]

Excellent insight @oneniltothearsenal . Sounds like an interesting read.

 

[idmanager]

Congratulations @Enigma_87 @The Red Viper on a well deserved win.
(Not a vote switching ploy FWIW)

As I mentioned to Enigma in a PM at the start of the game, I would have voted for your team as well.

Of course, I would like to explain my reinforcements strategy.
The only team that could even give a fight to my midfield was yours and I was hoping to not get drawn against you.
The odds seemed good enough since it was 1 in 7. Of course, after getting the Messi/Maradona/Kaiser team in R1 in Dominoes draft, I should have known better

Any other team other than yours and I felt I could win the midfield and attack battle comprehensively.
The idea was to get CBs in the next reinforcements when numerous would be available and I wouldn't run into too many lamb clashes.
Knew I had lost the game as soon as the teams were drawn.

Playing Nedved where I started was a last ditch ploy at trying something different to woo the voters as I am pretty sure I would have lost using any other tactic or formation as well.

I won't wish you good luck as its already on your side. In the 3 drafts prior to this I have participated in, 2 the eventual winners had to beat me on their way (Invictus and LS)
Hope I do catch a break with the draws though

Thanks and good job till now @2mufc0 with the draft.

@sincher , despite the snide remarks by managers here and there, I hope you stick around as I really enjoyed your posts in this draft. Cheers.

 

[The Red Viper]

Indeed



I pulled out my copy of Stillness and Speed, Bergkamp's autobiography to see if there was anything more about it and the book basically says the same thing, but its a more nuanced opinion than just "Bergomi is bad at zonal defending".

It was a really interesting time in Italy with Sacchi changing a lot of traditional Italian perceptions. Sacchi's Ajax influenced system of using a back four that marks and presses zonally had a profound influence on Italian theory about defense. Even at Milan there is a passage


Then for Inter


So from reading this and the IBWM article my conclusion is more that Bergomi was very used to classic Italian systems and did have an easy trying to adapt to Orrico's version of attacking football. After Orrico, Inter then goes with Bagnoli who was the classic old fashioned Italian style. This was as the article mentioned most of the root of the problem with Bergkamp being a bad fit for the system that Inter stuck with. So I think Bergomi just doesn't really have experience in a more Sacchi like zonal system. The issue probably wouldn't even get noticed except for the fact you have Ferri paired who gets mentioned in the same.

Funny side note is how in 95 Bianchi becomes Inter's coach,


I forgot how great that book was, definitely one of the better footballer bios.

That was a great read, mate. Cheers.

But back to discussion, I think the key is like you highlighted, "Sacchi style zonal system".

There's a reason why after 1990, Sacchi's style never really worked unless you have elite attacking players who are masters of retaining the possession like Pep's Barca. Even Sacchi had to tweak a lot during the 1994 World Cup. Prior to the 1990 offside rule change, you can be very aggressive with your defending and go play a very high line because all you need is to get that one player offside and the play would stop. So, it was easier for Sacchi to employ his defensive scheme and the 25 yards philosophy.

I think a young Bergomi could have worked and thrived in Sacchi like zonal system. But pre-1990. Because in terms of attributes, he had it all. He was fairly quick for a CB and read the really well. But after the offside rule changes, it wasn't going to be easy. Especially for a player who is no more in his physical prime and has lost a bit of pace and athleticism.

As for Inter, they were a hot mess. If there was a team which underachieved the most in the 90s and early 00s, it would be them. Bad management decisions combined with weird coaching choices. If not for Calciopoli, they would have still been looking for their first Scudetto for almost 30 odd years.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Excellent insight @oneniltothearsenal . Sounds like an interesting read.

It really is. Bergkamp is such a thoughtful and insightful player. A lot like Baggio in that regard IMO. There is an interview with Bagnoli that is really revealing along with Bergkamp's comments.

Even though the style on the pitch completely didn't mesh, Bergkamp liked Bagnoli a lot as a person and had tremendous respect for him. Bit of sad regret on both sides the styles just didn't mesh.

This contrast with the next Inter manager Bianchi. Bergkamp did not like or respect Bianchi at all. He brings up one incident when Bianchi went to play tennis with his assistant and Bianchi is on his 1994 cell phone while the assistant lugs all the bags and gear like some parody show.

So its interesting how the first year at Inter Bergkamp liked and respected the manager but the tactics just didn't fit his style at all, and then Sosa. But the next year he just doesn't even like or respect the manager.

The history of 1990s Inter is just so interesting. I'd love to read a book or watch a documentary just about Inter form 90 to 2000

That was a great read, mate. Cheers.

But back to discussion, I think the key is like you highlighted, "Sacchi style zonal system".

There's a reason why after 1990, Sacchi's style never really worked unless you have elite attacking players who are masters of retaining the possession like Pep's Barca. Even Sacchi had to tweak a lot during the 1994 World Cup. Prior to the 1990 offside rule change, you can be very aggressive with your defending and go play a very high line because all you need is to get that one player offside and the play would stop. So, it was easier for Sacchi to employ his defensive scheme and the 25 yards philosophy.

I think a young Bergomi could have worked and thrived in Sacchi like zonal system. But pre-1990. Because in terms of attributes, he had it all. He was fairly quick for a CB and read the really well. But after the offside rule changes, it wasn't going to be easy. Especially for a player who is no more in his physical prime and has lost a bit of pace and athleticism.

As for Inter, they were a hot mess. If there was a team which underachieved the most in the 90s and early 00s, it would be them. Bad management decisions combined with weird coaching choices. If not for Calciopoli, they would have still been looking for their first Scudetto for almost 30 odd years.

Indeed. Re: Bergomi I agree. I think he definitely could have adjusted had been in Sacchi Milan but Orrico Inter not so much. But the fascinating thing for me is like you say Inter is a hot mess. They just lurch all over the place during the 1990s and its kind of fascinating.

 

[The Red Viper]

It really is. Bergkamp is such a thoughtful and insightful player. A lot like Baggio in that regard IMO. There is an interview with Bagnoli that is really revealing along with Bergkamp's comments.

Even though the style on the pitch completely didn't mesh, Bergkamp liked Bagnoli a lot as a person and had tremendous respect for him. Bit of sad regret on both sides the styles just didn't mesh.

This contrast with the next Inter manager Bianchi. Bergkamp did not like or respect Bianchi at all. He brings up one incident when Bianchi went to play tennis with his assistant and Bianchi is on his 1994 cell phone while the assistant lugs all the bags and gear like some parody show.

So its interesting how the first year at Inter Bergkamp liked and respected the manager but the tactics just didn't fit his style at all, and then Sosa. But the next year he just doesn't even like or respect the manager.

The history of 1990s Inter is just so interesting. I'd love to read a book or watch a documentary just about Inter form 90 to 2000



Indeed. Re: Bergomi I agree. I think he definitely could have adjusted had been in Sacchi Milan but Orrico Inter not so much. But the fascinating thing for me is like you say Inter is a hot mess. They just lurch all over the place during the 1990s and its kind of fascinating.

Not just 90s. Even early 2000s.

 

[Gio]

Ultimately I think Idmanager's defensive set-up in the first half swung it for me for Enigma and TRV. Defensive quality was a concern as I didn't really remember Ayala doing all that much for Napoli and Collovati was a good 4-5 years past his best. Think Nedved could be a brilliant wing-back, so kudos for trying something new, but in a contain and counter approach it's not really playing to his strengths. Much more preferable to force Lombardo back the way rather than have him sitting high. That said, the 4-4-2 looks a lot more solid with that hugely protective Davids/Rijkaard base, and the defence getting the extra coverage it needs, and that might have sneaked it given the attacking punch of Zola, Crespo and Salas and their good record in the past. As excellent as Idmanager's midfield and attack are, the difference is that Enigma/TRV's team doesn't have a weak unit, just really solid throughout.

 

[Gio]

It really is. Bergkamp is such a thoughtful and insightful player. A lot like Baggio in that regard IMO. There is an interview with Bagnoli that is really revealing along with Bergkamp's comments.

Even though the style on the pitch completely didn't mesh, Bergkamp liked Bagnoli a lot as a person and had tremendous respect for him. Bit of sad regret on both sides the styles just didn't mesh.

This contrast with the next Inter manager Bianchi. Bergkamp did not like or respect Bianchi at all. He brings up one incident when Bianchi went to play tennis with his assistant and Bianchi is on his 1994 cell phone while the assistant lugs all the bags and gear like some parody show.

So its interesting how the first year at Inter Bergkamp liked and respected the manager but the tactics just didn't fit his style at all, and then Sosa. But the next year he just doesn't even like or respect the manager.

The history of 1990s Inter is just so interesting. I'd love to read a book or watch a documentary just about Inter form 90 to 2000



Indeed. Re: Bergomi I agree. I think he definitely could have adjusted had been in Sacchi Milan but Orrico Inter not so much. But the fascinating thing for me is like you say Inter is a hot mess. They just lurch all over the place during the 1990s and its kind of fascinating.

Yeah it's a good read. Coves a lot of reasons why Bergkamp didn't fit with Inter, style and management obviously, but personality too with the shyer Bergkamp, compounded by a lack of confidence as a result of what's happening on the park, not mixing as well as the extrovert Sosa. Different era where the dressing rooms were less cosmopolitan and the three foreigners had to sink or swim.

 

[Enigma_87]

cheers @idmanager but let's see it out as we've seen even in this draft some great comebacks

excellent read @oneniltothearsenal . I think Inter went on Liverpool's road in the mid/late 90's. They bought tons of players that weren't up to par, whilst also having some quality players in their ranks.

The defence itself IMO was really solid throughout but the attack(bar Ronaldo) was right mess. They would rarely concede at the back, but issues on and off the pitch were detrimental going forward. FYI love Sosa and think he was quality for them as well, but the cultural mix was too much. Bergkamp also didn't adjust well, he came from a much less physical and more technical league to a team that also didn't finish two seasons with the same manager.

As for Ferri and Bergomi and their "struggles" are more due to appointing a clown like Orrico who couldn't get his ideas through at any of the teams he managed, and he managed a lot...

The very next season after 91/92 they finished the season in style and were excellent at the back, I recall one great win at delle Alpi with Sosa scoring one of the goals and beating them 3-1 at home as well with Sosa on the scoresheet again.

They alternated from 5 to 4 at the back in that season if I recall correctly and both Ferri and Bergomi were in pretty good form.

 

[Moby]

It really is. Bergkamp is such a thoughtful and insightful player.

Yep, there's a great interview with him in the first issue of Blizzard.

 

[Enigma_87]

Ultimately I think Idmanager's defensive set-up in the first half swung it for me for Enigma and TRV. Defensive quality was a concern as I didn't really remember Ayala doing all that much for Napoli and Collovati was a good 4-5 years past his best. Think Nedved could be a brilliant wing-back, so kudos for trying something new, but in a contain and counter approach it's not really playing to his strengths. Much more preferable to force Lombardo back the way rather than have him sitting high. That said, the 4-4-2 looks a lot more solid with that hugely protective Davids/Rijkaard base, and the defence getting the extra coverage it needs, and that might have sneaked it given the attacking punch of Zola, Crespo and Salas and their good record in the past. As excellent as Idmanager's midfield and attack are, the difference is that Enigma/TRV's team doesn't have a weak unit, just really solid throughout.

Cheers, Gio.

BTW here is a classic game that I came upon while rehashing some old seasons - between Juve and Parma, where Di Livio played as a holder and Zola as a SS up top.

http://www.juvefc.com/classic-games-juventus-vs-parma-serie-a-199495/

Deschamps and Sousa were at either side of the diamond and going through some games, indeed during that season Deschamps was playing on the leftish side of a 4-4-2 when Baggio was in the hole.

 

[antohan]

Cheers, Gio.

BTW here is a classic game that I came upon while rehashing some old seasons - between Juve and Parma, where Di Livio played as a holder and Zola as a SS up top.

http://www.juvefc.com/classic-games-juventus-vs-parma-serie-a-199495/

Deschamps and Sousa were at either side of the diamond and going through some games, indeed during that season Deschamps was playing on the leftish side of a 4-4-2 when Baggio was in the hole.

Surely Di Chiara and Minotti are the wrong way around?

Stinks of that Juve defence being equally wrong. At least I've no idea what's going on there.

 

[Enigma_87]

Surely Di Chiara and Minotti are the wrong way around?

Stinks of that Juve defence being equally wrong. At least I've no idea what's going on there.

I wondered the same thing to be honest, but the Juve one looks spot on to me.

Tacchinardi is at the center with Porrini and Torriceli is on the right flank being flat back 4 most of the time in both phases.

Watched the game, mainly because of Vialli who was dropping deep lot of the time and there was much more to his game than being a simple goal threat in the box, despite this being the older version of him.The synergy between Ravanelli and Baggio on the left was really good

Juve were defending with Di Livio as holder, but as soon as they regained possession he went on the right midfield spot and was a bit like a double pivot in the middle with Deschamps and Sousa in line.

 

[antohan]

I wondered the same thing to be honest, but the Juve one looks spot on to me.

Tacchinardi is at the center with Porrini and Torriceli is on the right flank being flat back 4 most of the time in both phases.

Watched the game, mainly because of Vialli who was dropping deep lot of the time and there was much more to his game than being a simple goal threat in the box, despite this being the older version of him.The synergy between Ravanelli and Baggio on the left was really good

Juve were defending with Di Livio as holder, but as soon as they regained possession he went on the right midfield spot and was a bit like a double pivot in the middle with Deschamps and Sousa in line.

That's a draft worthy backline arrangement. I wonder if it was an injury crisis or thay were giving players games to qualify for a medal. Even Rampulla starts ffs

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Surely Di Chiara and Minotti are the wrong way around?

Stinks of that Juve defence being equally wrong. At least I've no idea what's going on there.

Aye, Di Chiara was clearly playing LWB as usual, and Di Livio was playing RM. That formation graphic isn't accurate at all. Unlike Baggio's passing in that match .

 

[antohan]

Aye, Di Chiara was clearly playing LWB as usual, and Di Livio was playing RM. That formation graphic isn't accurate at all. Unlike Baggio's passing in that match .

What Enigma says about Di Livio switching to RM on the ball makes sense. It's really the Porrini-Tacchinardi combo I was surprised to see.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

What Enigma says about Di Livio switching to RM on the ball makes sense. It's really the Porrini-Tacchinardi combo I was surprised to see.

Aye, if Enigma watched the full match then he'll have gleaned much more than I could from those highlights. You do tend to doubt the veracity of that graphic in general though when they plop Di Chiara in at RCB when he clearly wasn't playing there, and never did to the best of my knowledge.