Just in case people have not read whole of the write ups.
Serie A 90's QF - Idmanager vs Enigma_87/The Red Viper
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Just in case people have not read whole of the write ups.
Err, none of that counts.
An ageing defender used as a squad player shouldn't be starting in a QF in this draft.
You have to bear in mind that Balbo was at his peak during the mid 90's where the rules were a bit different - no back pass rule for example, hence there weren't many players(if any) to score more than 20 goals on regular basis.
On the other hand Salas in your team for example reached 15 and 12 in the two seasons he played in Serie A in the end of the century - far less than the 22 Balbo scored in a single season.
Just to throw some light on my attack.
Zola against Dunga is a much easier way to goal than Totti against Davids or Rijkaard.
Nedved getting past Lomardo can cost much more harm than the other way around.
While Branco was good at set pieces, he was never a flank dominator. Di Livio on the other hand was precisely that.
While Enigma does have the better defence, I do have the better and more routes to goal IMO.
Zola against Dunga is a much easier way to goal than Totti against Davids or Rijkaard.
Nedved getting past Lomardo can cost much more harm than the other way around.
While Branco was good at set pieces, he was never a flank dominator. Di Livio on the other hand was precisely that.
While Enigma does have the better defence, I do have the better and more routes to goal IMO.
No mate, it's light and day between Matthaus and Collovati.
Collovati in 91/92 started the following games:
Genoa posted much better results with him on the bench.
The season they finished 4th - they picked up their form in the second half of the season - the time Collovati was actually benched.
He started most of the games when they were 9th in the table and most of the time even in the bottom half:
He is playing along with 2 other centre backs in a counter attacking setup.
He should be fine as a stopper.
The easiest route to goal is through Collovati mate. He's by far the worst player on the pitch and his defensive record and appearances at the time speaks for itself.
No mate, it's light and day between Matthaus and Collovati.
Collovati in 91/92 started the following games:
Genoa posted much better results with him on the bench.
The season they finished 4th - they picked up their form in the second half of the season - the time Collovati was actually benched.
He started most of the games when they were 9th in the table and most of the time even in the bottom half:
Well, could you post Matthaus' stats in 1991-92 as well?
If not its a moot point regarding the 1992 table mate
And they were not very high in the table in 1990 considering the number of draws.
It was probably the strike pair getting into form in the 2nd half of the season.
Wouldn't be that sure myself. It's not like he is the only questionable defender here either, or next to a standout name who can hide him. That entire back 3 looks like it is just waiting to get ripped apart.
I'd like to see some discussion around Enigma's creator vs mine against what they are facing from the neutrals. Cheers
Erm Vialli, Balbo, Totti? It's not like he's choosing who to face here. He'll be targeted no doubt.
As @Moby said it's not like you have Baresi and Maldini around him to hide. You are also employing a three man defence so you need everyone of them to be top drawer.
If you look at the other side of the pitch - Maldini/Ferri/Bergomi - both in their sweet spot.
Collovati as a RCB in a back three, being 34 at this stage and not having the legs to cover extra ground is suicide at the back if you ask me.
It is fair to say Mihajlovic often wondered forward and Favalli tucked in to cover him but I would hardly compare players moving up the pitch in possession with a default 3-4-3 tactic.
I don't have an issue with him playing a left midfield role, as opposed to when someone had Carboni up there doing it.
It does mean he is either shackled by defensive duties or you have a bit of a gaping hole there for Lombardo to attack.
Mind, both of you have the same issue, but all in all Enigma/TRV are worse off as even if both got a bit wasted embroiled in defensive duties you still can exploit or cover that flank more effectively via Davids than they can via Dunga.
Well, could you post Matthaus' stats in 1991-92 as well?
If not its a moot point regarding the 1992 table mate
And they were not very high in the table in 1990 considering the number of draws.
It was probably the strike pair getting into form in the 2nd half of the season.
Matthaus missed like 7 games in those two seasons mate, it's hardly even remotely comparable.
Matthaus was the best player on the park for his team in almost all games he stepped on, whilst Collovati was a rotational player who happened to be on the pitch when his team underperformed.
He was 33 at the start of 1990 season. Not uncommon for top defenders to be good even at that point.
Especially in the right setup where his job is to be a stopper in his zone in a counter attacking setup.
His age is not a problem unless I have a problem of getting caught on counters when I attack no ends.
Totti is going to get eaten alive against what he is facing mate. As good as not existent in my books
Exactly why the risk was taken.
He stands to get harmed much more than me in the setup.
Whilst the attack under performed.
Skuhravy for example scored 2 goals in the first half and 13 in the second half. Same with Aguilera.
Checks your facts mate.
Genoa actually conceded almost same number of goals in the first half as the second half.
Anyhow on Matthaus:
With him on the pitch - Inter were fifth with 6 games to go. He scored against Juve, Parma, Foggia and Roma
Then he done his acl:
You can easily spot the difference
With him on the pitch - Inter were fifth with 6 games to go. He scored against Juve, Parma, Foggia and Roma
Then he done his acl:
You can easily spot the difference
In 1991-92? You are joking right? He had a terrible time that season both as a midfielder and sweeper.
End of april and may when the season was over for Inter and they had nothing to play for. Not even UEFA cup qualification in contention. They finished 8th
Moyes anyone?
Boy we have already reached close to 2 pages done. Good start mate @Enigma_87
I'll grab some dinner and get back.
I'll grab some dinner and get back.
90/91. Collovati never ever had the same impact.
The 91/92 season was bad for Inter, but he was still the best player in the games I've seen him. They were having issues in attack and he was having a lot of defensive work to do as well.
If Collovati was important for that 90/91 season for Genoa, why was he benched for the second part of the season, which coincided with the time they were on an upward trajectory?
aye in no time. I'll be responding to neutrals perhaps if any
Forget neutrals. Keep going.aye in no time. I'll be responding to neutrals perhaps if any
*Popcorn gif*
Great discussion in all honesty.
Impressive teams. Enigma's defence is looking superb, but never appreciated just how good Salas and Crespo's records were against the Milan clubs. Love Idmanager's midfield, proper Serie A full of gusto.
Went with Enigma - only just.
ID manager's midfield trio is superb and better than Enigma's.. out wide too, he's got Di Livio and Nedved.. which is a cracking pair.
I don't rate young Totti higher than Zola in his pomp. That said, attacking wise.. I rate Balbo highly due to his consistency factor and is one of the Serie A greats of the 90's for me and always liked Vialli, another underrated giant of the Italian game. Defensive midfield wise.. Id looks water tight, but Matthaus has the type of game to stamp his mark here which means it isn't like Enigma would be destroyed in midfield.
Defensively no contest, Enigma trumps him in central areas and Bergomi/Maldini.. wow. Pr
ID manager's midfield trio is superb and better than Enigma's.. out wide too, he's got Di Livio and Nedved.. which is a cracking pair.
I don't rate young Totti higher than Zola in his pomp. That said, attacking wise.. I rate Balbo highly due to his consistency factor and is one of the Serie A greats of the 90's for me and always liked Vialli, another underrated giant of the Italian game. Defensive midfield wise.. Id looks water tight, but Matthaus has the type of game to stamp his mark here which means it isn't like Enigma would be destroyed in midfield.
Defensively no contest, Enigma trumps him in central areas and Bergomi/Maldini.. wow. Pr
I'm checking them mate, and here they are:
Fulvio Collovati 90/91
From Matchday 12 till matchday 34, Collovati played the grand total of 5 full games, being at the losing end in 3 of them. And that is his "best" season there.
Two of them for 1-0. He was in Genoa, not AC Milan.
When your strikers don't score, you usually lose.
The games they won, they scored 3 in each. The games they lost, they scored 1 in 3.
He is not Baresi to defend, assist and score.
I don't like discussing based on stats mate without taking the context which I think you are doing.
I'd leave the Collovati discussion and the role he is assigned here for the voters to decide. Cheers.
aye, about time we leave the main thread for some discussion on the players/games
Cheers, Gio. Looking forward to your views on the game.
But he wasn't even on the pitch in 17 of those 23 games and only played 9 mins in the other. He wasn't even involved or broke into the squad for 2 of them.
He's up against one of the best attackers in the 90's in Totti, Balbo and Vialli and I'm afraid playing in a sample size of what 10 games as a starter is pretty poor record.
It's not only him, Favalli is mainly a left back, able to fit in as CB. Sure he can play in that role, but he's not Maldini and Ayala played for a Napoli side which was in disarray and fighting for relegation.
I don't think it sounds crazy that whenever our attackers take a stab at your back line it could end in tears. There isn't a defensive leader, nor the quality to pull a 3 men back line, not to mention Collovati at 34 having to also provide cover wide, whilst on a fringe form and not able to even string a half a season together in the time span.
Your midfield is great mate, and also attack is looking pretty good, but that defence is a real let down, especially when you consider the keeper as well.
I agree my defense is not the best in the draft, but the midfield and attack are much better and balanced than yours IMO
My defense though won't be exposed too much considering I am employing a counter attacking system with four of the most hard working players in the draft ahead of them.
Already mentioned in last game, Ayala was very good even amongst the bad times and the shit around him at Napoli. Of course, since you are relying purely on stats and not on performances or context, I'd not dignify that with too much of a response.
Favalli as well played quite a lot a LCB in his career. Had all the traits of a CB and LB.
Also, as I have mentioned earlier, I have way more routes to goal than what I think you do.
Hope the neutrals do put their views on this as earlier requested.
My defense though won't be exposed too much considering I am employing a counter attacking system with four of the most hard working players in the draft ahead of them.
Already mentioned in last game, Ayala was very good even amongst the bad times and the shit around him at Napoli. Of course, since you are relying purely on stats and not on performances or context, I'd not dignify that with too much of a response.
Favalli as well played quite a lot a LCB in his career. Had all the traits of a CB and LB.
Also, as I have mentioned earlier, I have way more routes to goal than what I think you do.
Hope the neutrals do put their views on this as earlier requested.
Very close but I went with a better (and significantly better) defence. That midfield battle though
If you are employing a counter attacking system then the defence is your base and should be your best outlet mate, I disagree there. That means you'll be inviting pressure and there is much more chance you'd leak goals.
That defensive line isn't best suited for succumbing pressure.
No doubt you have your routes to goal, but I disagree about balance. We have many combos all over the pitch - both in attack - Vialli and Lombardo - Lombardo finding Vialli in the box is a sight that you'd see pretty often at Samp. Balbo and Totti combining together up top for Roma and Bergomi/Ferri playing almost 15 years at the back for Inter - building telepathic understanding.
Stats aren't everything, my point on Ayala is - and I've watched him both a Napoli and mostly for Milan where he was a bit of a part player then - he can't be the defensive leader you badly need at the back to stitch your defence up as himself he was a defender in a badly functioning team that was in disarray in every line.
When you consider the theme in question, Ayala falls a bit short in terms of peak level compared to the Valencia one - playing at a team where he bossed the defence and functioned as a well oiled unit.
I have no problems with Favalli playing there, my point was looking at the defensive unit as a whole there are more goals in our team, compared to a defence bossed by Maldini and Bergomi.
Oh, 'epic bantz' about Sanchez and Guardiola from the Mingers' DavidBrentalike manager in this one, I wonder if that cost him in the final analysis? Obviously the sheer arrogance of the sinch vote as regards football opinions means he would not be outwardly swayed by such minor infringements of decency, but subliminally, couldn't really tell you.
In any case, this was a close match, and might have been even closer if both managers hadn't tried to shoehorn attacking players into their line-ups leaving both unbalanced and with dodgy 'wing backs who really aren't wing backs' on right and left respectively. Maybe it was Lombardo making a slightly better fist of it than the criminally deployed Nedved that swung it for the Eejits, or maybe it was the more handsome defensive threesome, not sure. Certainly, Maldini was happier in this one than in the last round when he had to contend with three right backs next to him, instead finding his old mate Bergomi and his old enemy Ferri alongside him. It was not an auspicious start, though, as our Riccardo, holder of the dubious honour of most ever Serie A own goals (8, ffs! Still might have earned him some lovely brown envelopes), kicked the scoring off in this one with a lovely header from a corner.... the only slight problem being it was a corner slung over by poor old Pavel and was therefore an og all the way. It might not have been if Rossi had been paying more attention but he was making the same old assumption that he was back playing for Milan and could pretty much slack off actual goalkeeping for the duration in favour of chatting up birds in the crowd (and at one stage, slightly embarrassingly, Pavel Nedved, though probably this was a haircut-led case of misidentification, and to be fair, those blond locks were lovely). 1-0 Mingers early doors.
However, within just a few minutes, Totti slipped in a pass from deep and Collovati was completely unable to deal with bilbo Balbo for pace, the latter sprinting away and sticking it low past Cervone for the equaliser. Cue also for a bit of handbags between Vialli and Ayala. Turned out Vialli had the nicer one - Gucci, proper Italian leather etc., beautiful craftmanship, Ayala back in his box for sure.
The rest of the game was played out with interesting battles across the pitch, but few breakthroughs, with Di Livio's slightly malcooordinated energy matching up well against Branco's insouciant power, Dunga and Matthaus battling nobly against the Dutch feckers, and Favalli and Vialli having a superb rhyming battle that thankfully did not make it into a shite radio advert for Coral. It was this matchup that finally proved decisive, though, after Lombardo did Nedved for pace, helped perhaps by his much improved head aerodynamics, and swinging over a peach of a cross for Vialli to nip in ahead of Favalli and volley in. 2-1 Eejits, Maldini without doubt man of the match, and not a hair out of place either. Might need to improve the midfield for next time though.
Smoochies,
Sinch
In any case, this was a close match, and might have been even closer if both managers hadn't tried to shoehorn attacking players into their line-ups leaving both unbalanced and with dodgy 'wing backs who really aren't wing backs' on right and left respectively. Maybe it was Lombardo making a slightly better fist of it than the criminally deployed Nedved that swung it for the Eejits, or maybe it was the more handsome defensive threesome, not sure. Certainly, Maldini was happier in this one than in the last round when he had to contend with three right backs next to him, instead finding his old mate Bergomi and his old enemy Ferri alongside him. It was not an auspicious start, though, as our Riccardo, holder of the dubious honour of most ever Serie A own goals (8, ffs! Still might have earned him some lovely brown envelopes), kicked the scoring off in this one with a lovely header from a corner.... the only slight problem being it was a corner slung over by poor old Pavel and was therefore an og all the way. It might not have been if Rossi had been paying more attention but he was making the same old assumption that he was back playing for Milan and could pretty much slack off actual goalkeeping for the duration in favour of chatting up birds in the crowd (and at one stage, slightly embarrassingly, Pavel Nedved, though probably this was a haircut-led case of misidentification, and to be fair, those blond locks were lovely). 1-0 Mingers early doors.
However, within just a few minutes, Totti slipped in a pass from deep and Collovati was completely unable to deal with bilbo Balbo for pace, the latter sprinting away and sticking it low past Cervone for the equaliser. Cue also for a bit of handbags between Vialli and Ayala. Turned out Vialli had the nicer one - Gucci, proper Italian leather etc., beautiful craftmanship, Ayala back in his box for sure.
The rest of the game was played out with interesting battles across the pitch, but few breakthroughs, with Di Livio's slightly malcooordinated energy matching up well against Branco's insouciant power, Dunga and Matthaus battling nobly against the Dutch feckers, and Favalli and Vialli having a superb rhyming battle that thankfully did not make it into a shite radio advert for Coral. It was this matchup that finally proved decisive, though, after Lombardo did Nedved for pace, helped perhaps by his much improved head aerodynamics, and swinging over a peach of a cross for Vialli to nip in ahead of Favalli and volley in. 2-1 Eejits, Maldini without doubt man of the match, and not a hair out of place either. Might need to improve the midfield for next time though.
Smoochies,
Sinch
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After reading the article about Inter that onenil posted in main thread, I'm thinking Bergomi/Ferri may not be as monstrous as it looks on paper. In here Bergomi is playing without the support of a wingback. This calls for more Zonal defending which the article says he's not really good at. I don't think him stepping out to handle Nedved and Ferri covering in would be effective. Edit, when Bergomi actually as a RCB in back 3, he had Battistini (a true sweeper) behind him.
On the flip side, Collovati seems to balance the scale again.
On the flip side, Collovati seems to balance the scale again.
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