It's got nothing to do with being the cool kids, look at our last truly great team, we had Scholes and Carrick in the midfield, like Real are using Kroos and Modric, these type of players are far more valuable than a player that is big or one that can run around a lot, these teams don't have them to be cool, they have them because they make you a better team, which is why most of them are so successful. Regardless of that though, even if we wanted to be "Uncool" and surrender posession in most games and use another box to box worker bee, Savic still isn't a good fit.
Sergej Milinkovic Savic
- Thread starter R'hllor
- Start date
It's got nothing to do with being the cool kids, look at our last truly great team, we had Scholes and Carrick in the midfield, like Real are using Kroos and Modric, these type of players are far more valuable than a player that is big or one that can run around a lot, these teams don't have them to be cool, they have them because they make you a better team, which is why most of them are so successful. Regardless of that though, even if we wanted to be "Uncool" and surrender posession in most games and use another box to box worker bee, Savic still isn't a good fit.
If we're swapping, give us PogbaMaybe we can buy him and swap you, that's Ed's new thing.
Problem is that I can't think of any players who can do that at an elite level that are available right now. Maybe Özil if he can play at a high level as a CM since I don't think 4-2-3-1 suits us. Eriksen might be good there too but I don't think he's available. Maybe if Madrid let Modric go but probably not.
Is Seri good enough against the top sides?
If we're swapping, give us Pogba
That United team was matched by a Chelsea that didn't have one. Had Terry not slipped, they'd have won the CL.
One problem I have with a Matic, Pogba, SMS midfield is that as physically imposing as that would be, it'd be a bit lacking technically from a play making perspective. I could see say City's midfield passing around them and resulting with us needing to hoof the ball to cause threat.
I think what our midfield really lacks at the moment is a third midfielder that can take some of the play making responsibilities from Pogba and also someone who's defensively solid and allows Pogba to roam forward with greater freedom. Perhaps SMS is exactly what I'm describing. But, from what I've seen, SMS looks more like a Pogba type player, rather than a player that will allow Pogba greater freedom going forward.
Another aspect of this transfer is the fee involved. Lazio will likely demand £80m+ for SMS and given that we have a set transfer budget, perhaps it'd be better to pursue another cheaper player and freeing up greater funds for other problem areas like the full back positions or an out and out right winger (assuming Sanchez comes in as a secondary striker).
Given we wont be buying a high end attacker now we've got Sanchez and Jose ios saying he only expects to buy two players, we can offer huge money for the CM target, Maybe Real or Juve can be tempted to sell Kroos or Pjanic.
I've not seen enough of Seri to say.
In a one off game yes, but our run of 3 back to back league titles and 3 CL finals speaks more to the consistency we got with our approach, again though, none of that alters the fact that Savic isn't even a fit with what you are suggesting.
This guy would be great. Would complement Pogba and Matic very well I think
That team was a decade or more ago, we saw today with Spurs how they missed Eriksen's control over their play, nearly every top side has one of them, Kroos and Modric at Real, Silva and De Bruyne at City, Thiago at Bayern, Verratti at PSG, Iniesta at Barcelona, Pjanic at Juve, Jorginho at Napoli, Weigl at Dortmund. However even if we tried without one we lack a real creator in the front 3 and Savic is still a poor fit with Pogba and Matic, you'd want a very mobile and dynamic ground coverer in their with them at the very least, like prime Vidal or what Essien was in that old Chelsea team.
Maybe we can buy him and swap you, that's Ed's new thing.
I would love to have Milinkovic-Savic at OT but I have to agree that we need either Jorginho or Pjanic first to complete the midfield jigsaw. A deep-lying playmaker of some sort.
I really do like him and I think a midfield with him and Matic would be bossing teams, giving Pogba loads of freedom. I don't see us going for a top level midfielder and Ozil. And how can you not like Ozil? I'm a bit conflicted with this, but I think it's more logical to go for a midfielder, not only to partner him with Matic, but because we seriously lack depth in quality in midfield.
With Ozil being free and Savic probably costing something similar to Lukaku, I'd be surprised to see us pursue that..
With Ozil being free and Savic probably costing something similar to Lukaku, I'd be surprised to see us pursue that..
Id happily this fella. He is good on the ball, a serious goal threat and defensively sound. Ala a Naigolan or Vidal he'd give Pogba all the freedom to shine.
Chelsea's Mourinho team of 2005 never had a midfield controller and were devastating. Besides, that Chelsea side we bested in 2008 were only inconsistent compared to us due to manager turn over. Not midfield personnel.
We won 3 leagues in a row and made 3 CL finals, you can't overlook that no matter what excuses are made, but again, Savic still isn't a fit for this decade old Chelsea model.
At their best, Nainggolan and Vidal both played as the most advanced player in a midfield three, either as a no.10 or as the one with the most licence to empty the midfield area in attack - essentially the position the majority of folk want to see Pogba in (and the one I think you are referring to Pogba playing in).
I’m not saying they couldn’t play as the link between the deepest and most advanced midfielders as they were also utilised there and are very capable of playing that role, and having not seen Milinkovic-Savic I have no idea what his favoured position is and what kind of midfield partners he would best compliment. I’m just saying, if we are to bring in a midfielder to play as an #8 in a midfield three specifically to partner Pogba and enable him that freedom to shine as you put it, better to be a player for whom that is their ideal role and so, in effect, Pogba also allows them the freedom to shine in their own way.
I'd argue that Chelsea also had players that were quite comfortable in possession. Makelele was constantly underrated in that respect as was Keane.
The thing about those 2 is they are very comfortable and actually world class with their defending, even with those attacking instincts. They are two of the best two way players over the last 5 seasons. IMO Pogba would be best served with a box to box work horse down the right, who is super defensively but has proper top tier attacking instinct. A good example of it is the balance Herrera gave us second half, away to Everton. A player who can ensure the deep 6 never gets out numbered, whilst being able to break forward and support both Pogba and the attack is exactly what we need to make our 4-3-3 work. Get a balance like Chelsea had with Essien on the right and Lampard on the left as Makelele stayed back mopping up behind them.
There is nothing to overlook. They changed managers like IPHONES. I have zero doubt of they had stayed with one boss post 2007/2008 they'd have given us an even bigger head ache domestically than they put up. For whenever we faced them we were largely evenly matched. I disagree about Savic.
For me Jorginho and a box to box midfielder who can play down the right are must buys
As good as SMS is, there is an arguement that a more ‘conservative’ CM would free Pogba up, offer more control of the game and even be able to partly cover for both Pogba and Matic when they don’t play.
It’s a difficult situation because he is very talented. It also looks like Fellaini and Carrick are gone after this year. Mourinho has also been clear that he wants Fellaini to stay, so it seems he wants another box to box option in the team.
It’s a difficult situation because he is very talented. It also looks like Fellaini and Carrick are gone after this year. Mourinho has also been clear that he wants Fellaini to stay, so it seems he wants another box to box option in the team.
Fellaini and Carrick going, we'll need to 2 CM's. Hope he's one of them.
We already have the more conservative CM in Matic, if you play with another and Pogba, you're limiting Pogba to the final third in a 10 role which doesn't suit him.
To get the best out of Pogba we need a second number 8, someone who provides some balance to what he does. If Pogba want's to play forward, the other CM can give Matic some support, if Pogba gets deep, the other CM can support the attack.
Jorginho is a great player but I'm concerned of his physicality, too slow and I don't think he will fit in PL.
Agreed. David Pizarro 2.0.
Yeah sorry, I meant more conservative than Pogba but less than Matic. The in between that offers the balance.
Been watching a fair bit of Seria A lately as it is free on telly here in Iceland. It´s safe to say that this fella is on hell of a player. Can tackle, shoot and pass. But the best thing is he is still only 22 but he is still a bit rough around the edges.
If we can sign him this summer he will be a great signing for years to come and will slot into this midfield without any problems.
If we can sign him this summer he will be a great signing for years to come and will slot into this midfield without any problems.
If one paced dwarfs like Makelele can thrive. (No disrespect to him) Why cant he? When he has just as much class ability wise? IMO he'd thrive ala Pirlo provided he has two box to box work horses ahead of him on either side.
I have decided that SMS will be the object of my muppetry during the next transfer window. He's an absolute machine and he's only 22! If we play a 3 man midfield consisting of Pogba, SMS, and Matic we will have one of the most physically imposing and balanced midfields in the league.
Was amazing yesterday the volley he scored was sublime. He's on 7 league goals for the season now which is very good for a midfielder!
That's just guess work though, what we did is actual fact and part of that great run, especially in the CL, was down to adding a proper playmaker like Carrick into the team, Savic isn't even a proper box to box with the mobility and ground coverage to play the Vidal/Essien role let alone a player that can control the tempo of the game.
It makes no sense to claim our great run was down to having Carrick in the team. Then at the same time down playing that Chelsea by calling it "guess work" when it is stated that matched us pound for pound in the champions league and only lost to us on penalties. Doing similar to us again the following season losing to Barca the eventual champions.
How is it guess work that we signed Carrick and he was a huge part of that team winning 3 back to back titles and making 3 CL finals? That's a fact, you don't know what would have happened if Chelsea had just kept the same manager year after year, some teams go stale like that, it depends. However it all goes back to the point that Essien was a huge part of the Chelsea midifled working due to how much ground he covered and how dynamic and athletic he was, it covered the space between the very deep sitting Makelele and the AM Lampard, that's a totally different type of player than Savic who is essentially a slower, less mobile version of Pogba with the same positional issues.
In the thread discussing where Pogba should play I pointed out that we miss him wherever he isn’t. He’s a huge asset when he’s deep and when he’s allowed to push into the final third.
Everything I’ve seen from Savic suggests he’d be the perfect signing. Everything Mourinho looks for in a midfielder is there and would give us another huge physical presence. I think people overstate the importance of having someone to control the game – I think both Pogba and Matic can do this relatively well but obviously not at the level of a Kroos, Xavi etc. Mourinho sides don’t really tend to rely on those types though – Only Xabi Alonso was really of that mould when you look through his best sides.
The biggest disappointment by a long way this season has been Herrera’s form. I’ve seen a lot of excuses made for him but the reality is he’s been really poor – I think it’s held us back too as the plan was almost certainly going to be a midfield 3 of Pogba, Matic and Herrera heading into the season, especially for big games. I think Fellaini has surpassed him in the pecking order and expect him to get the start in a three at Wembley. He’s seemingly off in the summer so I think Savic would be the ideal replacement, however much he costs. Herrera can remain as a squad player unless he dramatically turns around his form.
Everything I’ve seen from Savic suggests he’d be the perfect signing. Everything Mourinho looks for in a midfielder is there and would give us another huge physical presence. I think people overstate the importance of having someone to control the game – I think both Pogba and Matic can do this relatively well but obviously not at the level of a Kroos, Xavi etc. Mourinho sides don’t really tend to rely on those types though – Only Xabi Alonso was really of that mould when you look through his best sides.
The biggest disappointment by a long way this season has been Herrera’s form. I’ve seen a lot of excuses made for him but the reality is he’s been really poor – I think it’s held us back too as the plan was almost certainly going to be a midfield 3 of Pogba, Matic and Herrera heading into the season, especially for big games. I think Fellaini has surpassed him in the pecking order and expect him to get the start in a three at Wembley. He’s seemingly off in the summer so I think Savic would be the ideal replacement, however much he costs. Herrera can remain as a squad player unless he dramatically turns around his form.
Huh? Who called it guess work? I certainly didn't. I said rather that you can't praise our run in Europe as down to having a Carrick and dismiss as "guess work", a claim that says with more stable management they'd have given is more head ache domestically. For its a fact that Chelsea matched us for results in Europe, only losing to us on penalties, matched us again the following year by only falling to Barca, and outmatched us in 2012 by winning in a final, in which we had lost the previous year. And domestically too we were evenly matched most times we clashed. Yet they never had a Carrick. Even when Essien got crocked and was replaced.
You're guessing that they would have done better than they did had their manager remained the same throughout that period, your central claim at the start was that our superiority over them was down to this, and I said you can't possibly know that, which is true, where as I can know that our superior consistency was helped greatly by having a top class playmaker in our side, and we had Scholes at the time as well. However again, even with the Chelsea model you are trying to equate to us, Savic still doesn't fit and that is the crux of the matter, whichever type of midfield we go with he's not a fit, he has all of Pogba's flaws while not being as good as him, we need a player that balances it out which is another factor, Pogba was best at Juve when he had someone else control the game and feed him the ball at the right times, in Pirlo, that's not Matic, and the other piece was Vidal who is much more dynamic and sound all round than Savic.
Fair enough
He had Marchisio too, who was neither Vidal nor Pirlo. Im personally unconvinced about the need for a controller. Not when Pogba has the playmaking skills he possesses. All Pogba needs is freedom to operate any where. Rather than another player leading the playmaking instead of him.
I don't think Pogba is a playmaker, he's a game changer, he's the guy with the final ball, to me a playmaker is like Scholes, Xavi, Modric, Alonso etc....players that set the rhythm of the team, that think 3 passes ahead as they move the play around, they don't have assist stats in double figures, but they are the hub of the team that sets the tempo and adds a sense of calmness and control. All too often in our team Pogba has to come and fetch the ball because that link isn't there and Matic isn't a DLP like Pirlo or Carrick who can get the ball to him through the lines over and over. Marchisio isn't that disimllar to Vidal, he offers a degree of attacking threat but primarily worked like a trojan to free up Pogba, so even if we don't go for a playmaking #8 we still would need someone like Koke a lot more than someone like Savic.
All the best ball playing deep lying midfielders have all been criticised at one point or other about their lack of mobility and defensive contribution. Busquets, Carrick, pirlo, kroos, alonso.
Jorginho is a really really good midfielder. His one touch play really reminds me of Scholes. His long passing of pirlo. He can probably get better defensively but he isn't terrible and tactics will be devised to protect him. Players like him don't come along very often, usually there are only 3 or 4 of them in all of elite football. For me he is a must buy if not we will regret it as much as passing on kroos.
Milinkovic-savic is an upgrade on Fellaini. An all rounder who can score goals and be a target man but can also pass and distribute and win the ball in the middle. I would love to have him if Fellaini is leaving.
A muppet needs a name to follow.