I get what you mean but you are conflating being a declining United's most important midfielder to being world class which it ain't. Note that during this period we no longer a heavyweight on the world stage and were not delivering world class performance. Even when we won in 2013 it was uncomfortable and relied on RVP brilliance. 2014 we were trash. It's interesting you would not replace Carrick with anyone when you had Bayern winning the treble with a midfield that competed with Barcelona (something we could never do at our pomp).
Sean Longstaff
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I'm talking about his numbers when he was the same age.
Playing more games, performing better.
Didn't Hendo earn his clubs player of the year at the same age?
True. If our scouts were doing their jobs then they would know that Inter has a good academy and a tendency to throw kids away for cheap. Hence why not break the deadlock and ask 50m +bastoni for lukaku? We would get an excellent young Cb with the right characteristics to do well in the EPL while still having enough money to replace lukaku
Dont remember. He was quite good!
Young player of the year 2 years in a row 09-10 and 10-11
Utter nonsense.
He has the worst agent ever, he worths 50 million, and he has a ridiculous wage there
Also England under 21 player of the year and Liverpool young player of the year but Longsquets is better because;
a) linked to United and we only buy the best in the biz.
b) 9 EPL games that nobody here watched.
c) YouTube highlights.
From what I remember Henderson was highly rated as a youth. I just didn't like him as a player but he has done well for himself
I also remember him as a very good young player. But as I said, that does not say much about potential or how good he will become. Comparing dont make much sense. For instance, Henderson at 21 was probably more influential and better than Englands best midfielder for the last three decades (Paul Scholes). But his potential was not higher, and Scholes became a better player.
Then again, Henderson is a regular on a CL-winning side. If we can say the same for Longstaff in 7 years time, £50 mill will look cheap.
25 million is a fair price for Longstaff, no more than this.
And that fee should include bonuses
Lampard/Gerard, as every in other England team, are picked by the press. That’s the fecking state of England at international level. If Messi played for United and was English, they’d still pick Andy Carrol instead. They played peak Scholes out on the left wing ffs, to accommodate Lampard and Gerard. As for Carrick, he was class long before the United match goers started singing “its Carrick, y’know...” then suddenly everyone started to notice. His understated style has always obscured “expert” recognition of how good he really was, although I’ll concede that if only he had a more imposing personality, he would’ve been even better. He probably stuck to his brief too much for his own good, when a few more pot-shots would’ve benefitted. A few Gerard-style 40 yarders out to the wing would’ve got him noticed, regardless how ineffective. Vastly underrated and an integral part (alongside Scholes) of arguably, United’s greatest side in 2008. Interesting how Pirlo only became “world class” in his latter years and the media piled it on, followed by knowing nods and educated murmurings. A late bloomer but to hear people talk... most had never heard of him before he was 26. Interesting perceptions driven by knee jerks and hindsight.
20m plus bonuses max.
I'm talking about his numbers when he was the same age.
Playing more games, performing better.
As @andersj suggests, that's a very reductive way of comparing players. We could all name a host of brilliant players who underperformed compared to obviously inferior players at a young age but who nonetheless had more potential.
When I watch Longstaff now (albeit in a small sample size of games that could be unrepresentative) I see more potential than I ever did from Henderson, whose limitations as a footballer were always present even when he was being showered with praise as a youngster. Largely because Longstaff appears to have a more cultured skillset.
I think he has a bit more composure but other than that looks quite similar to a young Henderson. I didnt think Henderson looked that great, perhaps I undervalued his defensive contributions at the time.
So I think both old Henderson and and Longstaff are doing a decent amount defensively. But in terms of on the ball I didnt think Henderson was worth the hype and neither do I think Longstaff is worth the hype of this £50 million price tag rumor or being our first choice. He looks a good young prospect who may or may not make it, worth a punt if available for cheaper than an established first team starter at a premier league club.
He has a useful style, decent technique, a bit of composure, decent passing and isnt afraid to put his foot in and make a tackle. But at less than 10 premier league games and not being someone who looks another level compared to everyone else on the pitch when he plays, I dont see him as a very good midfielder who would instantly join and play every match, like with AWB at right back for example. He still has much to prove and he may do that next season. And then he'd be in that category but its a season too soon.
Just to be clear about that, I do not know Longstaff well enough to say much about that. But if Man Utd are interested, this is obviously the way the club see it aswell. It is not like Man Utd are not aware that he has not proven much in the PL.
I’m sure some in here would have made a case for Cattermole just because he was decent (or managed to get much game time in the PL) at a very young age.
Pretty much this
Same.
We obviously saw something in Djemba Djemba, Nick Powell, Alan Smith etc too.
We're talking about PL games against some of the league's best sides, not random Serie C games or something.
I'm sure a large number of the posters here have seen at least some of those games. They weren't exactly low profile or difficult to find.
Longstaff for sure doesn't have the experience of Schneiderlin. But what the Geordie does look to have over him is better passing with either foot and composure, which will be invaluable in our build up from a deeper role.
Over 60 scouts and they can't find us any top players.???
Have you watched him play much? Don't see why you are arguing so much if you haven't
Shame for this lad. Only reason for this being so high profile is the lack of activity elsewhere. This is the type of signing that should have gone under the radar.....
Schneiderlin was unplayable at Saints. He was certainly way better then longstaff was last season
Check your over sensitivitypost sheepish blurb get called out on it.
Over sensitivity? Where is this conversation going?
He was a player I even wanted but he was a limited player when it comes to passing etc. He was a plodder that I appreciated at the time but Longstaff from what I've seen is more talented on the ball.
9 games mate. Taibi was MoM on his debut
The thing is he doesn't make a particularly high amount of passes in all his games.
This is against Burnley where he scored and statistically had one of his best games last season
He made the same amount of passes as Rondon. More than his CM partner but Newcastle passed the ball mostly from the back with Schar and the defenders
The match before (Huddersfield) he got on the ball much more :
He almost got on the ball as much as Schar this time. Thats a lot more like what you'd expect from a player people are suggesting might be like Carrick
Against Wolves, again he was up there getting on the ball and making passes.
But then the match before that against Spurs :
Barely on the ball with Hayden having the most passes in CM.
Obviously as a young player you expect inconsistancy, but people are talking like he had 9 or the majority of 9 games where he was an outstanding midfielder for Newcastle in the Carrick kind of mold. But to me it was a handful of games where he got on the ball a lot, and some others where he was on the fringes in terms of on the ball play.
Have you ever seen him play in a full game?
Because I'm being told he's a bit like Carrick or looks better than Henderson did at his age. I've only seen a bit but I can see that its another case of people being desperate to make comparisons with another really good player when really he still has lots to prove to be mentioned in the same breath
He's playing for a struggling Newcastle team hence it's easy to see why he doesn't make a high amount of passes. Newcastle fans rate Longstaff as the bigger talent compared to Hayden who was released from Arsenal.The thing is he doesn't make a particularly high amount of passes in all his games.
This is against Burnley where he scored and statistically had one of his best games last season
He made the same amount of passes as Rondon. More than his CM partner but Newcastle passed the ball mostly from the back with Schar and the defenders
The match before (Huddersfield) he got on the ball much more :
He almost got on the ball as much as Schar this time. Thats a lot more like what you'd expect from a player people are suggesting might be like Carrick
Against Wolves, again he was up there getting on the ball and making passes.
But then the match before that against Spurs :
Barely on the ball with Hayden having the most passes in CM.
Obviously as a young player you expect inconsistancy, but people are talking like he had 9 or the majority of 9 games where he was an outstanding midfielder for Newcastle in the Carrick kind of mold. But to me it was a handful of games where he got on the ball a lot, and some others where he was on the fringes in terms of on the ball play.
Well of course they do, he's 21 and Hayden is 24.
Football fans tend to think young players are obviously going to always improve so even if its close they'll choose the younger and newer one because they seem more exciting
As for not making a high amount of passes because its Newcastle, the defense are making plenty of passes and its a #6's role to help give options, drop deep and get on the ball. If the CBs have a lot more of the ball then that isnt happening.
Yes. And Falcao, Veron, Schneiderlin (bet you would have been a fan since he looked good at WhoScored) and many more.
The club have made alot of mistakes in the transfer market. Most do. Reason being it is hard to predict the future. That does not make the case for lazy arguments.
Someone obviously see something special in Longstaff. They could be right or they could be wrong. But I do not think that they buy him without having a lot of information about the players. They have more stats on him than what is available to the public (and probably more players to compare him to). The stats we are provided today by sites like WhoScored and Squawka where used by clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal for more than fifteen years ago.
So, if his stats are not that good in the PL last year, and we still want him, why is that do you think? They lack your sophisticated ability to use whoscored? Probably not..
Have you seen him play for more then 10 full games?
Lampard and Gerrard were picked because of a combination of exceptional performances and consistency at both domestic and European level.
Scholes should of performed better for England when he had the chance. If you look at his timeline, he was there way before Gerrard and Lampard started playing and he didn't do enough to make himself indispensable.
Define "latter years". In 2005 United fans should of been well aware of Pirlo as he was part of an AC Milan midfield which played us off the park and reached the CL final, also playing Liverpool off the park. This was one of the best midfields I had seen in a while. Pirlo then starred in the world cup which his nation won, the following year.
That year he made the Fifa world 11, world cup all star team, was leading assister in the world cup, won the world cup bronze ball, was rated IFFS best playmaker, finished 5th in Ballon D'or. All of this was at the age of 27. The following year Pirlo once again was in top 10 Ballon D'or players and world player of the year. This is all before Juventus. He was also the star player of the under 21 championship for Italy in 2000 winning top scorer. I bought him on an old FM and he became insane. 20 for basically everything
Maybe he was a late bloomer to the ignorant
Longstaff is considered a bigger talent even by the Newcastle coaching staff at u23 level. I know this because I know Mason Greenwood very well and he played away with the u23 team at St James's in April which gave us the opportunity to have a chat with some of the Newcastle coaching staff.
Sorry unless you were a Longstaff fan, no one knows rock all about him or can come to any conclusion watching him for 9 games. Clearly the club have and rate him highly....can only think he'd be coming to be close to a first team start.
Yes I was happy we signed Schneiderlin.
I'm sorry but if you really think United are better at analyzing data and identifying transfer targets with our transfer record in the past 5 years than some of the people on the transfer forum, you're having a laugh.
Clubs that consistently make good signings? Absolutely. Of course they are
Us? Give me a break
We barely make a successful signing.- Status