Spain didn't veto other applicants from state break-ups, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, or the former components of Yugoslavia. My gut feeling is that Scotland would be given all the benefits of EU membership on a temporary basis, without any influence of course, but fast-tracked to actual membership.
Scottish Politics
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
They should wait it out and see what Europe is like in 2 years time. What happens if Le Penn and Wilders getting elected and take France and the Netherlands out. It would probably be the end of the EU, will Scotland then want to join the U.K again...
Back in June before the referendum Ferdinand Mount said that Brexit would lead to a call for a second referendum in Scotland. No surprises there, but he went on to argue that if Westminster refused to allow one, it would lead to a level of civil strife unknown in Scotland since the Jacobite rebellion.
I don't know how real a possibility that is but I found it quite a shocking thought.
I don't know how real a possibility that is but I found it quite a shocking thought.
I love it when politicians mention said queue - it's actually a pretty short one, and the process of joining isn't one of 'first come, first serve' but based on criteria.
I don't know any of these polls but most likely Scots have no idea yet to what extent May considered their needs in Brexit negotiations or disregarded them. Inform them so they can make an informed decision.
It'll be decided within the next months if Wilder and/or Le Pen are elected. The timing sought by Sturgeon - between fall 2018 and spring 2019 - gives a good idea how the EU will look like and how a Brexit deal (if any) will look like.
I'd say it's to emphasise that that it's not automatic and a rigorous precedure has to be followed. It aims to prevent Balkanisation, I imagine. What does an independent Scotland or Catalonia offer that it doesn't provide already ? In Scotland's case more positivity, I guess but that could change too. But Catalonia offers nothing new and I strongly believe that the EU would like fewer bigger states rather than more smaller ones. Spain was one of the keenest member states before the crisis but now less so.
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I actually don't think that Scotland would be given a special treatment, there's simply no legal basis for it.
Don't legislatures create the legal basis? It's certainly not my subject though, I did say 'gut feeling'
I wouldn't mind if politicians were pointing out that Scotland must follow the process and adhere to all criteria. I actually agree with them on this. But the word 'queue' implies that membership is in any way related to the time of application, and that's not applicable.
I know and actually based my post on gut feeling, too.Don't legislatures create the legal basis? It's certainly not my subject though, I did say 'gut feeling'
There's no legal basis for a special treatment and I believe the EU won't change the treaties just to accommodate Scotland.What you described above resembles the EEA but it would complicate things further if Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland were to get involved.... and Scotland would surely seek influence as only a EU membership guarantees.
I think they're deliberately keeping it low key for the time being so as not to upset the apple cart even more. If or when it happens, the criteria will be given but that may depend on whether the Brexit goes relatively smoothly or gets nastier and nastier. Scotland could be fast-tracked or offered a transitory deal or something in order to get it over with quickly - or to settle scores.
And in that would be a major problem
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...-wouldnt-be-accepted-as-members/#423b68ad3b6f
There's not, but a country if former EU citizens sequestering from a larger state is, I think, unprecedented. I suspect we'd be in unknown territory, but it's difficult to believe it wouldn't be a seen as a different situation to a normal EU entrant.
Then what does that say for all the other countries that are trying to become members yet have to go through rigorous changes to actually be allowed membership?
Scotland can't just break free as an independent country and be fast tracked into the EU... they'd have to go through the same membership process as everyone else. I'm not hugely knowledgeable on EU entry requirements (though i know they're easily googleable) but i'm sure that Scotland would fall short on a couple of the requirements wouldn't they?
An France/Netherlands referendum probably wont be for 6 months and then to 2 years to leave if they decide. Scotland leaving now just seems like a final attempt by a party that is hell bent on Scotland leaving the U.K. I dont for one second believe the SNP would be happy staying in the U.K if the U.K remained part the single market. they might be content, but its not their ultimate goal
I still think the stumbling block may be getting the Spanish on board (catalonia etc)
But certainly as all the laws and standards are already harmonised it could make accession to the eu easier.
Would Scotland be obligated to take the Euro?
How about the issue over the nation's very sizeable national debt?
How would the border issue with England be resolved?
How about the issue over the nation's very sizeable national debt?
How would the border issue with England be resolved?
Pretty sure Scotland would immediately fulfil all of the Copenhagen criteria.
The second point is the big one...
Indeed. The idea that the EU is held dear to the hearts of the Scottish electorate is nonsense.
The SNP actually campaigned during indyref partly on the warning that the UK could Brexit after the referendum so it isn't like this is a new unforeseen dynamic that 'changes everything'.
The Scottish economy is struggling at the moment and that is likely to get worse for the foreseeable future. The SNP need to hit their end goal before the prospect of the electorate starting to question their governance on the most crucial of all things, the economy.
This has been a great snooker shot by the SNP though. Personally I hope that May blanket refuses any dictating of any timetable from the SNP.
I believe that beyond the symbolism of 'breaking up of the union' Scotland leaving the UK would be good for England, they are after all propped up fiscally by Westminster and the bulk of their financial services industry will relocate to England.
And over a period of time, I wouldn't like to guess how long, Scotland would become prosperous again.
Well to be honest it's not just big it's crucial. So crucial in fact that it would certainly kibosh 'fulfilling all the criteria' you referred to in your other post.
Also you can hardly discount the importance of point one either. What currency Scotland ends up using will be massive determining factor in the lives of all those residing there.
62% Remain is pretty convincing.
Sure it does, no-one actually thought Brexit would actually happen. It sounded like a ridiculous scare tactic.
So do I, but only so I can watch and laugh at her squirming as everyone in the world points at the startling hypcricy.
Why would financial services relocate to London? It's more likely it'd be the other way around, given that then Edinburgh would have EU passporting rights.
We're going to build a wall...
That's why leaving the UK and remaining in the EU gives them a great opportunity to turn that around.
Turn what around exactly?
The decline in their financial services sector.
That would rely on London losing its status and that no other European nations, like say France or Ireland, win out in attracting the major banks to major Cities like Paris or Dublin.
Realistically Scotland would have to waltz right into the EU to even have a chance of entering that competition I would have thought.
Kind of sounds like a plan a Brexiteer would come up with.
I don't think for a second they'd get all the business London loses, but they could certainly compete for a decent chunk of it. Given the adversarial way May is dealing with the EU, I just don't see Scotland having that big an issue getting back into the EU. Just in terms of perception, it would be a great coup for the EU having a nation want to stay so badly that it was willing to break up a 300 year old union just to stay in the European project. Obviously they'd be asking the EU for assurances in advance.
So you think that Spain will wilt easily on their opposition to Scotland's membership as an independent nation or that the EU will give them special dispensation and not impose austerity on them to sort out their not inconsiderable budget deficit, as two examples?
And all this to get back at England for democratically deciding to leave the Union!
I think we tend to overplay the Spain/Catalan issue. First and foremost in Spanish minds is going to be the economy, and Spain are probably the EU country most likely to take the biggest hit from Brexit. They need the EU to be strong and successful to help drive their own economy, and I'd be willing to bet that will matter more to them than paranoia about Catalonian seperatism.
As for imposing austerity, those rules are always open to interpretation. We also have no idea what Scotlands debt would actually be, given that in any seperation deal they also get a sizeable share of assets.
It has nothing to do with 'getting back at England', its about ensuring the strength and prosperity of the EU for the 27 countries remaining in it. That is far and away the biggest concern for the EU now, and I don't know why people seem to be overlooking this.
Scotland's deficit is estimated at between 8-10% by a number of bodies. It is fallacious to claim that there is 'no idea' about their debt and it falls well foul of the EU's required limit.
So your idea to to make the EU stronger is to bring in a failing economy and get it to adopt a failing currency in an economically stagnant trading block?! Furthermore you think that Spain will be happy with this because it definitely won't encourage their wealthiest region from leaving their own failing economy?
Ah, I thought you were actually talking about debt not deficit. Yeah the deficit would be an issue, but if it suited the EU to get Scotland in, then they'd doubtless work around it.
Well describing Scotland as a 'failing economy' is a bit much, considering they still haven't had the opportunity to manage their own affairs. I don't have any belief they'd become some economic powerhouse, but then again neither are many other of the countries in the EU.
Basically though your reply there is just euro-sceptic buzzword bingo. The euro isnt having an easy time, but its far from failing, and last time I checked the EU was still the largest trading block on earth. If you want to see what 'failing' really means, watch the UK's economic performance over the next 3-5 years.
Regions don't have international rugby and football teams. It's a country that joined as an "equal" partner over 300 years ago.
Let the English in on the vote too and make it a majority vote.
Let the English in on the vote too and make it a majority vote.
1, We know that the last plan put forward by the SNP was a fantasy and with oil at 50-60 dollars a barrel you are talking about a retrenchment in public spending on an unprecedented level and one which makes the Tory austerity program look mild.
I notice those people who are convinced the UK has to pay the EU vast sums of money in order to leave are strangely quiet about the charges for Scotland leaving.
2, That will be a nice change for those countries remaining in it because it has done nothing like that so far.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39282094
She's such a boost for the SNP isn't she?
She's such a boost for the SNP isn't she?
Probably wants her historical name to be something cool like Theresa the Terrible rather than Theresa Maybe.
Theresa Mayhem! Trump would love that bigly.