Scott McTominay | Transfer discussion not performance discussion

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Borussia Teeth said:
I mentioned in my post that mid table clubs might spend on attacking players so I don't think Diaby is good example. I also think Villa are above McTominay's level these days; they're in the Newcastle/Spurs bracket now.

Which teams outside of the top eight (McTominay's level) spend £40ish million on midfielders?
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Villa are a mid table side though.
West Ham have 2/3 defenders that cost 30/35 million range alone.
The problem seems to be that the top of the tables quality and Financial might goes so far down the table that fans don’t consider them lower to mid table clubs. I could quote last years top 5 and you would still not have Spurs or Chelsea near it.
If your argument is teams outside of those then maybe fair enough but West Ham 100 percent belong close to that bracket and not below them. Below the top 8/9 are newly promoted sides, sides who barely survived last year and Palace. Then again you have Everton offering 40m for Gallagher but they’re such a mess that including them would be cheating.
They can’t spend 45m on Haller a few years ago and be categorised as not big spenders. The only reason they didn’t spend big on CM or CDM is simply because they already had Rice there
 
The fees paid for players these days and we are constantly claiming were asking too much for players. McTominay is a full international, played for a top club for the whole of his career and held his own within the squad. If he'd have been playing for Birighton and turning in box to box performances his fee wouldn't be an issue.

40 million is cheap in this day and age for his position.
 
cyberman said:
Villa are a mid table side though.
West Ham have 2/3 defenders that cost 30/35 million range alone.
The problem seems to be that the top of the tables quality and Financial might goes so far down the table that fans don’t consider them lower to mid table clubs. I could quote last years top 5 and you would still not have Spurs or Chelsea near it.
If your argument is teams outside of those then maybe fair enough but West Ham 100 percent belong close to that bracket and not below them. Below the top 8/9 are newly promoted sides, sides who barely survived last year and Palace. Then again you have Everton offering 40m for Gallagher but they’re such a mess that including them would be cheating.
They can’t spend 45m on Haller a few years ago and be categorised as not big spenders. The only reason they didn’t spend big on CM or CDM is simply because they already had Rice there
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Ok, fine. Villa are a mid table team. I still think they're too good (under Emeray) for McTominay and I doubt they'll be in for him.

You mention Everton. They're in an FFP mess and won't be spending large fees on anyone.

So I if we overplay our hand with West Ham, which looks like we may we'll be doing; who do you think will cough up £40m for him?
 
If we manage to sell McTominay for 40M he'd be the 4th most expensive player we'd sold. Only after Cristiano, Lukaku and Di Maria.

Currently 4th is Beckham for 25M back in 2003. God we must be the worst club at selling players no doubt.
 
Fred should be sold first before Scott i feel. But if a 40M offer really comes in, can’t blame the club on cashing it. This and the Fred fee + Dean Henderson’s fee is enough to pay most of it for Harry Kane? :wenger:
 
SAFMUTD said:
If we manage to sell McTominay for 40M he'd be the 4th most expensive player we'd sold. Only after Cristiano, Lukaku and Di Maria.

Currently 4th is Beckham for 25M back in 2003. God we must be the worst club at selling players no doubt.
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Didn’t Dan James go for £30m?
 
Kag said:
Rice is on a different planet to McTominay.
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Then you’re criminally overrating what Rice brings to a team. The reason he looks great at West Ham is because he has the ball all to himself in his own third, just like McTomminay would. You’re about to see that Rice will look just like McTomminay does in a top team when he’s asked to do things he’s not capable of.
 
Borussia Teeth said:
Ok, fine. Villa are a mid table team. I still think they're too good (under Emeray) for McTominay and I doubt they'll be in for him.

You mention Everton. They're in an FFP mess and won't be spending large fees on anyone.

So I if we overplay our hand with West Ham, which looks like we may we'll be doing; who do you think will cough up £40m for him?
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West Ham? Why would they walk away? Why are we being framed as desperate sellers?
Maybe we actually don’t want to sell him and maybe it would take a good bid to let him go?
 
I think he's the biggest fluke I've ever seen at a top level football club.

I don't think he ever even made a Scotland youth team. That's wild. The likes of Rice and co had to go and play youth football for Ireland - that's how competitive the English youth set up is, and here we have McTominay not making a single Scotland youth team at any level.

Yet, here we are 200 caps for Man Utd later. Just shows you how timing and luck plays a huge part in making it.

Mourinho decided he was going to be his pet project to prove that he does in fact develop young players, and he became a keystone part of Ole's Brexit FC. Below average talent, who became average through a lot of time and effort invested in him by the club.
 
cyberman said:
West Ham? Why would they walk away? Why are we being framed as desperate sellers?
Maybe we actually don’t want to sell him and maybe it would take a good bid to let him go?
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(Last post of the day unfortunately)

West Ham may walk away because McTominay is nothing special, 40m is a lot and there are alternatives as a Hammers fan on here already provided.

I'm not suggesting we should 'frame ourselves as desperate sellers.' I just fear if we overvalue him and West Ham move on, we won't get another taker for a decent price this summer and he will be lower in value next summer after a season on the bench. I've asked you previously to name which mid table clubs spend £40m on midfielders and you've not provided an example. You've referred to Diaby and Haller, neither of which are midfielders. Both are attackers who traditionally cost more.

If we genuinely want to keep him (can't see why) and need a massive fee to twist our arm, then fair enough. If the 40m is a negotiation tactic to get around 28-35m then also fair enough.

I just feel it would be very foolish to be left in a situation where we overprice and lose a sale. We've been here before with likes of Lingard, Rojo, Darmian, Romero and Bailly. The longer we keep deadwood, the less value they retain.
 
Devil81 said:
The fees paid for players these days and we are constantly claiming were asking too much for players. McTominay is a full international, played for a top club for the whole of his career and held his own within the squad. If he'd have been playing for Birighton and turning in box to box performances his fee wouldn't be an issue.

40 million is cheap in this day and age for his position.
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All that's true, I guess, but you forgot the part where he's actually pretty terrible at football.

£40m is an absurd price for him. Moyes is probably the only manager in any league that would entertain that figure.
 
Borussia Teeth said:
(Last post of the day unfortunately)

West Ham may walk away because McTominay is nothing special, 40m is a lot and there are alternatives as a Hammers fan on here already provided.

I'm not suggesting we should 'frame ourselves as desperate sellers.' I just fear if we overvalue him and West Ham move on, we won't get another taker for a decent price this summer and he will be lower in value next summer after a season on the bench. I've asked you previously to name which mid table clubs spend £40m on midfielders and you've not provided an example. You've referred to Diaby and Haller, neither of which are midfielders. Both are attackers who traditionally cost more.

If we genuinely want to keep him (can't see why) and need a massive fee to twist our arm, then fair enough. If the 40m is a negotiation tactic to get around 28-35m then also fair enough.

I just feel it would be very foolish to be left in a situation where we overprice and lose a sale. We've been here before with likes of Lingard, Rojo, Darmian, Romero and Bailly. The longer we keep deadwood, the less value they retain.
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My sentiments entirely.
 
Borussia Teeth said:
(Last post of the day unfortunately)

West Ham may walk away because McTominay is nothing special, 40m is a lot and there are alternatives as a Hammers fan on here already provided.

I'm not suggesting we should 'frame ourselves as desperate sellers.' I just fear if we overvalue him and West Ham move on, we won't get another taker for a decent price this summer and he will be lower in value next summer after a season on the bench. I've asked you previously to name which mid table clubs spend £40m on midfielders and you've not provided an example. You've referred to Diaby and Haller, neither of which are midfielders. Both are attackers who traditionally cost more.

If we genuinely want to keep him (can't see why) and need a massive fee to twist our arm, then fair enough. If the 40m is a negotiation tactic to get around 28-35m then also fair enough.

I just feel it would be very foolish to be left in a situation where we overprice and lose a sale. We've been here before with likes of Lingard, Rojo, Darmian, Romero and Bailly. The longer we keep deadwood, the less value they retain.
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I don't think we should frame ourselves as desperate sellers, but here are reasons why we should be desperate to sell.
:lol: :lol:
First rule of negotiation: Be the party who is most willing to walk away. It put you in position of power.
West Ham aren't trying to do us a favour by taking Scott you know, they honestly see him as someone who can come in and improve them. If they could find someone better for less they'll not be attempting to take Scott at all.
 
OrcaFat said:
I know this is true. And we now have different people in the positions dealing with sales and purchases. But aren’t you worried that we’re still in the mindset that has made it difficult for us to sell players in the past? We over-value our surplus players - players who can’t get into our team even when we’re not doing that well.
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Ah I don't really do worry anymore. I'm treating it like a negotiating position and we seem to be better at selling players these days. If we feck it up then I'll criticise but I don't really get the complaining in fear of what might happen thing.
 
Tbf I think £40m is a good valuation for Mctominay, he's pretty underrated around these parts. He'd do pretty much exactly what Soucek does for them, but to a higher standard with more energy and a more dynamic goal threat. And Soucek starts pretty much every game.

A combination of Mctominay + Gallagher with change left over for Rice isn't a bad deal for West Ham.

I don't think we should be short changing ourselves when the likes of Mount go for £50m. A player like VDB who has about a tenth of Mctominays use went for £40m. At a fee of £30m? I'd rather we kept him, he's a very useful squad player for us. Especially since we didn't resign Sabitzer. He has had many games for us where he was everywhere. West Ham wasted £100m+ on the likes of Kehrer, Scammaca etc, getting a player like Mctominay that fits there style of play exactly and is guaranteed to be good is easily worth £40m. Any lower and it's a bad deal for us.
 
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40-45 million sterling might seem steep, but in a market where we might end up paying 70 million EUR for Højlund it’s probably a fair amount. Glad we finally seem able to do some sensible business.
 
Skills said:
I think he's the biggest fluke I've ever seen at a top level football club.

I don't think he ever even made a Scotland youth team. That's wild. The likes of Rice and co had to go and play youth football for Ireland - that's how competitive the English youth set up is, and here we have McTominay not making a single Scotland youth team at any level.

Yet, here we are 200 caps for Man Utd later. Just shows you how timing and luck plays a huge part in making it.

Mourinho decided he was going to be his pet project to prove that he does in fact develop young players, and he became a keystone part of Ole's Brexit FC. Below average talent, who became average through a lot of time and effort invested in him by the club.
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If he was about 4 inches shorter I don’t think Mourinho would’ve ever given him a second look. Crazy how things work like that
 
crossy1686 said:
Then you’re criminally overrating what Rice brings to a team. The reason he looks great at West Ham is because he has the ball all to himself in his own third, just like McTomminay would. You’re about to see that Rice will look just like McTomminay does in a top team when he’s asked to do things he’s not capable of.
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I do think Rice is somewhat overrated, but he's clearly better than Scott. He's got much better defensive positioning , and on the ball he has a better first touch and dribbling ability, makes himself available to receive a pass more often, and is a better passer in general. It's not even that he's particularly good in those latter aspects, it's that Scott is literally below average for a PL midfielder in them.
 
Trex said:
I don't think we should frame ourselves as desperate sellers, but here are reasons why we should be desperate to sell.
:lol: :lol:
First rule of negotiation: Be the party who is most willing to walk away. It put you in position of power.
West Ham aren't trying to do us a favour by taking Scott you know, they honestly see him as someone who can come in and improve them. If they could find someone better for less they'll not be attempting to take Scott at all.
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How do we make ourselves most willing to walk away? And how can we tell from the outside who is walking away? If we won’t go below £40m but Hammers won’t go above £30m, who’s walking away. Bottom line is we don’t want any walking away going on if it means McT stays here.

Anyway, we’ve sold a few players so maybe we’ve learnt our lessons.
 
OrcaFat said:
How do we make ourselves most willing to walk away? And how can we tell from the outside who is walking away? If we won’t go below £40m but Hammers won’t go above £30m, who’s walking away. Bottom line is we don’t want any walking away going on if it means McT stays here.

Anyway, we’ve sold a few players so maybe we’ve learnt our lessons.
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Mctominay is our player, he is on tour preparing for the new season. He'll be a squad player unless West Ham pay up. That should be the message we're conveying via the media. Do you think Ajax got 100m for Antony by being willing negotiators?
Fact is Mctominay staying or leaving does not make or break our season. Our priority deals are Onana, Mount and a striker and getting the striker has nothing to do with Mctominay leaving. Even Mctominay staying means not getting Amrabat it still won't make or break our season. If that happens then we can always wait for next summer where we'll allocate funds to that position as a priority and probably land a better player.
 
crossy1686 said:
Then you’re criminally overrating what Rice brings to a team. The reason he looks great at West Ham is because he has the ball all to himself in his own third, just like McTomminay would. You’re about to see that Rice will look just like McTomminay does in a top team when he’s asked to do things he’s not capable of.
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Could you explain what you mean by this? If he's able to move the ball forward on his own that sounds like a good skill to me, and not one that McTominay possesses.
 
crossy1686 said:
There’s no way we’re going to offer Fred a new contract so it makes sense to sell him. McTomminay isn’t really for sale unless the right offer comes in, which means we’ve probably got other players lined up. There will surely be a plan at this point.
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That's it at the moment. Fred is the midfielder we definitely want rid of. McTominay, no unless a good offer. VDB, we wouldn't mind going.
 
No matter what, we absolutely need to make sure to do some kind of business with West Ham & Moyes during the next weeks. They just won a title, have a full bank account from Rice and need players. We shouldn´t focus on the extra 1 or 2 mill and then maybe lose out completely. Maguire, McT .. anything, just do some kind of business with them and do it quick.
 
Withnail said:
Ah I don't really do worry anymore. I'm treating it like a negotiating position and we seem to be better at selling players these days. If we feck it up then I'll criticise but I don't really get the complaining in fear of what might happen thing.
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Yeah, who cares, tbh? I don’t want to be mean but I get fed up with players who aren’t good enough hanging around and stinking the place out.
 
Trex said:
Mctominay is our player, he is on tour preparing for the new season. He'll be a squad player unless West Ham pay up. That should be the message we're conveying via the media. Do you think Ajax got 100m for Antony by being willing negotiators?
Fact is Mctominay staying or leaving does not make or break our season. Our priority deals are Onana, Mount and a striker and getting the striker has nothing to do with Mctominay leaving. Even Mctominay staying means not getting Amrabat it still won't make or break our season. If that happens then we can always wait for next summer where we'll allocate funds to that position as a priority and probably land a better player.
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I just prefer him gone. Surely it’s best for him too.
 
Josep Dowling said:
I’ve seen plenty of McTominay to know he’s not good enough for United. He had less involvement last season because he hides in games and not good enough on the ball. He thrives in games when we set up defensively, he’s perfect for West Ham in that respect. If we want to progress our football he needs to be moved on.
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He had less involvement last season because he was injured at points where he would have been played and we also got better players in Eriksen and Casemiro. ETH played him fairly regularly when he was available.
 
The fee is good when you consider that McT is rather well suited to West Ham style of play. He is also not as incompetent at football as some may have us believe.
 
We might be the only PL fans who go about telling everyone that all our "can be sold" players are crap at football and low ball offers for those players is a steal.
 
OrcaFat said:
I just prefer him gone. Surely it’s best for him too.
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Yes best case scenario for me is they pay up and ETH gets his man. But we should let Mctominay and Westham push for this deal, we can sit back and watch it unfold. That's how you get clubs paying up and how you earn the reputation for being tough negotiators.
 
PieCrust said:
All that's true, I guess, but you forgot the part where he's actually pretty terrible at football.

£40m is an absurd price for him. Moyes is probably the only manager in any league that would entertain that figure.
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He's not terrible at all, he's just playing above his station. West Ham or Everton would be perfect for him, he'd be the main man in their midfield.

40 million is the going rate for a midfielder around that level these days.
 
OrcaFat said:
Yeah, who cares, tbh? I don’t want to be mean but I get fed up with players who aren’t good enough hanging around and stinking the place out.
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Yeah he isn't good enough for top PL side but he's not as bad as he's made out either. He'll be a good addition to a side like West Ham so we should get a decent fee for him.
 
Ish said:
We can shift him for a decent amount because fortunately for us, he is one of the players on a reasonable wage and not a stupid wage. Fecking Woodward.
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I feel these two words are integral to the reason why we can’t sell some of our long standing fringe players and underperformers.
 
OrcaFat said:
My sentiments entirely.
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West Ham have a gaping hole in central midfield - and McTominay is a Rice-light. They sold Rice for £105 million - are you saying they will walk away from let's say £35+5 million including add-ons ? I am pretty certain they wouldn't, because it wouldn't be easy to find that kind of player who is better than McTominay, cheaper than McTominay and who wants to play for West Ham - in addition to the fact that Moyes needs an established player - he can't gamble on signing a replacement for Rice who needs 6 months to get used to the P.L

If West Ham really want McTominay - £40 million wont scare them away
 
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