Scott McTominay | Transfer discussion not performance discussion

[Champ]

god there is nothing i hate more than people trying to point that multiple managers play a certain player or that managers know better than us. Maybe people should ask themselves why multiple managers have had the opportunity in a relatively short time to play people like mctominay. Managers arent infallible.

No you're right, managers aren't infallible,

but when he has plaudits from SAF, his international manager Clarke, Jose, Ole, Carrick, RR, Rio, Diego Simeone (who hailed him as one of the best in the world), Klopp amongst many others I think it's fair to say they probably know more than someone posting nonsense on an internet forum.

Unless you're of the thought process that you know better than the curtailed list above?

 

[lex talionis]

god there is nothing i hate more than people trying to point that multiple managers play a certain player or that managers know better than us. Maybe people should ask themselves why multiple managers have had the opportunity in a relatively short time to play people like mctominay. Managers arent infallible.

I wouldn't be too hard on Champ. It is true that McTominay has had a total of 5 or 6 matches over the last five seasons when he was pretty decent and of course he had that one MOTM performance against Leeds when for 90 minutes he was BEAST. But over that span of time -- five seasons I think -- he's looked dreadful far more often than he's looked useful.

No hard feelings, but the McTominay experiment has to come to an end.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Ever since i wachted that McT hides from the ball YT compilation i dont see him as a United starter

 

[FerociousCorgis]

No you're right, managers aren't infallible,

but when he has plaudits from SAF, his international manager Clarke, Jose, Ole, Carrick, RR, Rio, Diego Simeone (who hailed him as one of the best in the world), Klopp amongst many others I think it's fair to say they probably know more than someone posting nonsense on an internet forum.

Unless you're of the thought process that you know better than the curtailed list above?

if anyone called mctominay one of the best in the world id like to see them get drug tested to see what good shit they are on.

 

[Abraxas]

No you're right, managers aren't infallible,

but when he has plaudits from SAF, his international manager Clarke, Jose, Ole, Carrick, RR, Rio, Diego Simeone (who hailed him as one of the best in the world), Klopp amongst many others I think it's fair to say they probably know more than someone posting nonsense on an internet forum.

Unless you're of the thought process that you know better than the curtailed list above?

I always get a bit worried when I see opposition managers praising our players that have been mediocre to decent at the very best. It's almost as if they want to see us keep them playing. Similar to when Pep etc would praise us under Ole.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

I always get a bit worried when I see opposition managers praising our players that have been mediocre to decent at the very best. It's almost as if they want to see us keep them playing. Similar to when Pep etc would praise us under Ole.

i mean if so many of them are praising mctominay he should have quite a market when we sell him. Screw 20 million he is such a talent that clearly needs to be in the 50-60 million range as im sure buyers are queuing up for him

 

[ayushreddevil9]

if anyone called mctominay one of the best in the world id like to see them get drug tested to see what good shit they are on.

Exactly. Same for those who actually believe that.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I always get a bit worried when I see opposition managers praising our players that have been mediocre to decent at the very best. It's almost as if they want to see us keep them playing. Similar to when Pep etc would praise us under Ole.

Pep once said this about Maguire -
"He's strong in the air, good with the ball, the build-up, he drives with the ball, he's fast, so fast. He has all the qualities. Congratulations to United for this signature."

You need to be completely blind if you think that Maguire is fast. This oppo managers praising players is complete nonsense.

 

[Champ]

I always get a bit worried when I see opposition managers praising our players that have been mediocre to decent at the very best. It's almost as if they want to see us keep them playing. Similar to when Pep etc would praise us under Ole.

That's a fair comment!

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I'd say the bigger reason is the fact we haven't had a cohesive team/managerial appointment/plan since he's been around.

Looked brilliant in Jose's first season, albeit in a handful of games, but in a strong team he excelled.
Has also looked decent this season, again in a strong team that has a cohesive plan.

He has been scapegoated massively, it's not controversial to say that. He's had his fair amount of good games along with some big goals, he has also had some shockers. No worse or better than most in the team since he's been involved.

But fans on here have permanently tried to blame the ills of a team on one player, for a while it was Maguire, then it was DDG, then McT, then Bruno for a bit and now Maguire hasn't been involved it's back to McT when he plays.
Always thought it was strange that multiple managers kept playing him despite the clubs 'supporters' seemingly knowing better.

You would have a point if McTominay had shown any sort of high level ability even in flashes though. But he hasn't, and you trying to act like players that aren't up to standard are all just being "scapegoated" is absurd to me. Christ you can see the clear difference this year in an actual system between McTominay and Casemiro (a player that actually belongs at a top club looking to compete). Criticizing players that lack quality or are in terrible form (or both) isn't fecking "scapegoating", and it's clear as day that it's not scape goating when we kicked many of them to the bench and went on to immediately improve performances and results.

And if you're one of those that thinks no manager can do any wrong then it's pointless to debate anyways. Every one of those managers that repeatedly played him has had essentially 0 success anyways, he doesn't play in midfield for his own country, and as soon as some structure and a proper couple of midfielders were brought in he looks like a youth player in comparison in every game hes got in here recently.

 

[Erik the Red]

i just dont get the importance we place on "giving his all" to the club. Pretty much any of us would "give our all" if united said hey heres 50k a week or whatever go play some footy. Doesnt make him magically good enough. If you can get 20 mill for him cool, sell and bring in players who can become top class hopefully at some point. Accepting mediocrity is how we got into stupid situations where we wonder how a player is still here after 10 seasons.

The importance of "giving his all", is that fans have no right to have a go at a player that gives it his all. Ultimately Mctominay may not have been good enough, and fans can criticise that, and that is why he will leave eventually. However, what I (and many other fans) find unforgivable is when a player does not "give his all". There is a video of Mbappe not bothering to run, and I went viral. When a player continuously looks like he can't be bothered, it riles up the fans. The other thing that really annoys me is when a player thinks he is bigger than the club. When Rashford came late, ETH did not criticise him in public, but Rashford publicly apologised, and deserves a lot of respect for this. Ronaldo, on the other hand, had an interview to criticise the owners, the manager, other players, etc. Fans will have a lot more time for a player that gives his all, than one who has the raw talent, but has a bad attitude, and quite rightly so. Fortunately, ETH puts a lot of importance on a players attitude when he is scouting, and he seems to have a good ability to pick gooduns.

 

[Roboc7]

The importance of "giving his all", is that fans have no right to have a go at a player that gives it his all. Ultimately Mctominay may not have been good enough, and fans can criticise that, and that is why he will leave eventually. However, what I (and many other fans) find unforgivable is when a player does not "give his all". There is a video of Mbappe not bothering to run, and I went viral. When a player continuously looks like he can't be bothered, it riles up the fans. The other thing that really annoys me is when a player thinks he is bigger than the club. When Rashford came late, ETH did not criticise him in public, but Rashford publicly apologised, and deserves a lot of respect for this. Ronaldo, on the other hand, had an interview to criticise the owners, the manager, other players, etc. Fans will have a lot more time for a player that gives his all, than one who has the raw talent, but has a bad attitude, and quite rightly so. Fortunately, ETH puts a lot of importance on a players attitude when he is scouting, and he seems to have a good ability to pick gooduns.

But the vast majority of player do give there all, that’s why it’s not a compliment. The players that don’t are in the minority. It’s just another cliche used for players who aren’t good enough. It’s not a badge of honour just the standard requirement so not worthy of being put on a pedestal.

 

[Roboc7]

No you're right, managers aren't infallible,

but when he has plaudits from SAF, his international manager Clarke, Jose, Ole, Carrick, RR, Rio, Diego Simeone (who hailed him as one of the best in the world), Klopp amongst many others I think it's fair to say they probably know more than someone posting nonsense on an internet forum.

Unless you're of the thought process that you know better than the curtailed list above?

Well ETH quickly dumped him as a starter, rarely starts him unless he has too, has subbed him off quickly in last two starts and now looks likely to sell him. Maybe some of the fans saying he wasn’t good enough knew something after all.

 

[Champ]

Well ETH quickly dumped him as a starter, rarely starts him unless he has too, has subbed him off quickly in last two starts and now looks likely to sell him. Maybe some of the fans saying he wasn’t good enough knew something after all.

Or maybe we have just brought an upgrade in Casemiro?!

He has always been a squad player and that he still is under EtH. Yet he is still playing his part despite there being other options.

 

[pacifictheme]

Just laughing at the thought of someone seriously calling mctominay one of the best in the world.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Just laughing at the thought of someone seriously calling mctominay one of the best in the world.

Mourinho?

 

[Champ]

You would have a point if McTominay had shown any sort of high level ability even in flashes though. But he hasn't, and you trying to act like players that aren't up to standard are all just being "scapegoated" is absurd to me. Christ you can see the clear difference this year in an actual system between McTominay and Casemiro (a player that actually belongs at a top club looking to compete). Criticizing players that lack quality or are in terrible form (or both) isn't fecking "scapegoating", and it's clear as day that it's not scape goating when we kicked many of them to the bench and went on to immediately improve performances and results.

And if you're one of those that thinks no manager can do any wrong then it's pointless to debate anyways. Every one of those managers that repeatedly played him has had essentially 0 success anyways, he doesn't play in midfield for his own country, and as soon as some structure and a proper couple of midfielders were brought in he looks like a youth player in comparison in every game hes got in here recently.

Criticism is fair, what isn't fair is calling a professional player who has several years experience at the highest level under his belt a 'youth player' or claiming he can't play football.

We improved because we brought in better players in Casemiro and Eriksen, that doesn't mean McT is a poor player, as it's possible for both McT to be decent yet Casemiro to be better.

As I say, I'll look forward to whom the next player to be scapegoated for our future I'll is.

 

[Champ]

Mourinho?

Simeone

 

[Roboc7]

Or maybe we have just brought an upgrade in Casemiro?!

He has always been a squad player and that he still is under EtH. Yet he is still playing his part despite there being other options.

No he was a starter under Ole and Ralf not a squad player and looks like he won’t even be that soon. You listed all those names of managers saying how great Mctominay was but ETH clearly doesn’t agree.

Your argument seems to be people are wrong if they don’t agree with people like Simeone because he knows more. Therefore you must regard Mctominay as one of the best in the world not a squad player because he knows more than you by your own logic.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

He will do well hiding from the ball in that Newcastle midfield.

 

[crossy1686]

A move to Newcastle would suit everyone. Hopefully they’re planning a ‘raid’ on us for Maguire also.

 

[SirScholes]

Simeone

In the interview he also said this

“With the new manager, Ralf Rangnick, it’s given the team solidity, teamwork, and commitment”

Safe to say managers and players talk shit in pressers

 

[Bondi77]

I always get a bit worried when I see opposition managers praising our players that have been mediocre to decent at the very best. It's almost as if they want to see us keep them playing. Similar to when Pep etc would praise us under Ole.

Maybe Pep would lose games against Ole just to keep him in a job???
Gives a whole new meaning to a caring manager

 

[Champ]

No he was a starter under Ole and Ralf not a squad player and looks like he won’t even be that soon. You listed all those names of managers saying how great Mctominay was but ETH clearly doesn’t agree.

Your argument seems to be people are wrong if they don’t agree with people like Simeone because he knows more. Therefore you must regard Mctominay as one of the best in the world not a squad player because he knows more than you by your own logic.

My argument is that 'supporters' on here are claiming he's a poor footballer, yet multiple class managers have said something to the contrary,
He keeps getting picked despite other options being available,
He has interest from another top four rival,
So maybe, just maybe, the 'supporters'on here aren't actually right and are only seeing things through their own biased eyes.

Was only a few months ago Ten Hag was speaking about how McT was keeping Casemiro out of the team for example.

 

[pacifictheme]

My argument is that 'supporters' on here are claiming he's a poor footballer, yet multiple class managers have said something to the contrary,
He keeps getting picked despite other options being available,
He has interest from another top four rival,
So maybe, just maybe, the 'supporters'on here aren't actually right and are only seeing things through their own biased eyes.

Was only a few months ago Ten Hag was speaking about how McT was keeping Casemiro out of the team for example.

What is your opinion on mctominay then? What do you think his strengths and weaknesses are? What teams do you think should be looking at him and if he was currently at Newcastle would you be interested in buying him?

 

[SirScholes]

My argument is that 'supporters' on here are claiming he's a poor footballer, yet multiple class managers have said something to the contrary,
He keeps getting picked despite other options being available,
He has interest from another top four rival,
So maybe, just maybe, the 'supporters'on here aren't actually right and are only seeing things through their own biased eyes.

Was only a few months ago Ten Hag was speaking about how McT was keeping Casemiro out of the team for example.

haha how long did that last ?

 

[Bebestation]

Weird the hate that a player who was on our youth team gets for not being good enough but players like Sancho who cost 80 odd million gets less hate after being wanted by most of the ‘faultless’ fan base itself.

We get it, Mctominay isn’t good enough- but he cost shit all and we are actually going to make a profit off the guy compared to other footballers with a flashy name that we can’t even sell for free.

Thanks Mctominay! Thanks for giving it your best!

 

[Roboc7]

My argument is that 'supporters' on here are claiming he's a poor footballer, yet multiple class managers have said something to the contrary,
He keeps getting picked despite other options being available,
He has interest from another top four rival,
So maybe, just maybe, the 'supporters'on here aren't actually right and are only seeing things through their own biased eyes.

Was only a few months ago Ten Hag was speaking about how McT was keeping Casemiro out of the team for example.

So supporters have biased eyes and should believe a manager who says Mctominay is one of the best midfielders in the world. You must agree with Simeone because if you think he’s wrong it’s pointless referring to him because that completely undermines your point.

Mctominay has started one league game since then, and that was only due to a suspension so that tells us all we need to know.

 

[Champ]

What is your opinion on mctominay then? What do you think his strengths and weaknesses are? What teams do you think should be looking at him and if he was currently at Newcastle would you be interested in buying him?

He's a useful squad player. Not up to the standards of Casemiro, not many are, but in a strong hard working team he will and has excelled.
He chips in with goals, can pick a pass despite protestations on here that he can't and is a strong individual.

If I was at Newcastle I would buy him for circa £20/30m for sure. He would improve the options they have and provide depth.

He is certainly a step up from Joelinton and Longstaff for sure.

 

[MadDogg]

My argument is that 'supporters' on here are claiming he's a poor footballer, yet multiple class managers have said something to the contrary,
He keeps getting picked despite other options being available,
He has interest from another top four rival,
So maybe, just maybe, the 'supporters'on here aren't actually right and are only seeing things through their own biased eyes.

Was only a few months ago Ten Hag was speaking about how McT was keeping Casemiro out of the team for example.

The other options were an even poorer Matic who could barely play 60 minutes a week and a Pogba who by that stage was massively struggling with injury and was a fraction of the player he once was. McTominay was getting picked and rightfully so as he was actually the best option to play next to Fred, but it was a case of being the best of an incredibly bad set of options. This season he did start fairly well so rightfully kept his place while Casemiro was bedding in and struggling a bit, but his own form obviously dropped off massively and as soon as Casemiro got going Scott barely got a look-in.

I actually do think Scott can be a decent player for a fairly good team, but his mentality holds him back. He's had the odd period here and there when he's shown decent ability, but most of the time when his team have possession he seems to go out of his way to avoid the ball and (despite the narrative) he is regularly quite lazy defensively. There's this myth that he's a particularly hard working midfielder, but he really isn't. He has the occasional game where he absolutely is and that's what everyone seems to focus on, but most of the time he's average if not below average in terms of his workrate.

The one hope I have for him is that when he drops down a level he'll actually step up and take more responsibility on the field, which would indicate that it was more a confidence issue where he struggled with the pressure of Man Utd. If he does that, he could reach a level where he would be a good squad player for us. But by this point I think it's obvious that he won't take that step up while with us, so it's time for him to move on. And if he doesn't take that step up in terms of taking responsibility on the field, I do think he will end up in a team closer to the bottom of the league within two seasons.

 

[mikeyt]

This would be a great move. McT has never been good enough for us and he's been exposed even more so with the way ETH wants to play. Anything north of £20million would be decent business.

 

[Bilbo]

Hard to put a valuation on Scott. He isn't a cultured passer of the ball but he does have certain skills that soke managers would value in a certain system. Above average ball carrier and will chip in with 6-10 goals when played regularly.

Talk of £20m. Sounds like a lot of money but I'm sure if we looked at, say, McGinn we'd be quoted double that so I'm not sure I'd be happy with anything below £30m. Worse players go for that sort of money all the time

 

[mshnsh]

United should let him go. A good lad, hardworking but never at the level required in a team aspiring to win everything. Representative of an era of mediocrity at United (hoping the said era ends this season).

I'd also let Fred go. Ditto Elanga.

 

[RyRy11]

I'm interested to hear from everyone that thinks he'll be good for a mid table side: what attributes do you think he has and how do they fit?

Because from my POV, McTominay is probably best suited in a true box to box role without any real passing or reserved defensive responsibilities past just chasing the ball around. His highest level quality is that he's a pretty good striker of the football and finisher for a midfielder, so you need him closer to goal, but there aren't many set ups in modern football for that sort of player. Generally you want your advanced midfielders to be creative and technically proficient on the ball under pressure, but he's neither. And of course so many look at his size and just assume he's a DM, where he's genuine low level Championship quality in that sort of role.

I've always thought he (and Fred) would be better suited further up the pitch and as we've seen in glimpses with Fred it can actually be quite effective. Like you said he's not a DM and hes not particularly present as a box to box so in reality he doesn't fit this team (or many modern teams). I think when people say "he'll be good for a mid table side" they really mean his weaknesses wouldn't stand out next to players also of inferior quality.

 

[Roboc7]

He's a useful squad player. Not up to the standards of Casemiro, not many are, but in a strong hard working team he will and has excelled.
He chips in with goals, can pick a pass despite protestations on here that he can't and is a strong individual.

If I was at Newcastle I would buy him for circa £20/30m for sure. He would improve the options they have and provide depth.

He is certainly a step up from Joelinton and Longstaff for sure.

So what you are saying is you don’t rate him as highly as all the managers you were name dropping earlier. So they are all wrong and their opinions have no relevance to your own.

 

[Champ]

So what you are saying is you don’t rate him as highly as all the managers you were name dropping earlier. So they are all wrong and their opinions have no relevance to your own.

Nice try.

I rate him highly, hence the reason I've just stated that if I was the manager of Newcastle I'd buy him.

And I'd do so based on what previous managers have said along with wanting a good player to add depth to a potential top four team.

 

[Roboc7]

Nice try.

I rate him highly, hence the reason I've just stated that if I was the manager of Newcastle I'd buy him.

And I'd do so based on what previous managers have said along with wanting a good player to add depth to a potential top four team.

Where did any of those managers say he was worth just 20-30m and would add depth to Newcastle. Is that what SAF said?. One said he was one of the best midfielders in the world yet you’d only pay 20-30m for him and he only add depth to Newcastle?.

You clearly don’t agree with what all those managers said and have come up with something different so why are other fans biased for saying he wouldn’t be good enough for Newcastle?. You can decide he’s not one of the best in the world but someone else is biased if they rate him lower than what you have?.

 

[Champ]

Where did any of those managers say he was worth just 20-30m and would add depth to Newcastle. Is that what SAF said?. One said he was one of the best midfielders in the world yet you’d only pay 20-30m for him and he only add depth to Newcastle?.

You clearly don’t agree with what all those managers said and have come up with something different so why are other fans biased for saying he wouldn’t be good enough for Newcastle?. You can decide he’s not one of the best in the world but someone else is biased if they rate him lower than what you have?.

What are you on about?!

The price being thrown about is circa £30m, hence me saying what I did.

Not really sure what your saying is really having the desired impact here.

I showed you several managers who have rated McTominay to show you he isn't a poor player or someone comparable to a 'youth team' player, as people have tried to claim that they are correct and the managers aren't. Despite several managers saying otherwise.
But do carry on regardless.

 

[Roboc7]

What are you on about?!

The price being thrown about is circa £30m, hence me saying what I did.

Not really sure what your saying is really having the desired impact here.

I showed you several managers who have rated McTominay to show you he isn't a poor player or someone comparable to a 'youth team' player, as people have tried to claim that they are correct and the managers aren't. Despite several managers saying otherwise.
But do carry on regardless.

So Simeone is correct by saying he’s one of the best midfielders in the world then?. Or did he actually mean he’d just add depth at Newcastle.

Those managers rated him differently to you, just as other fans are. You haven’t demonstrated anything other than quotes are unreliable. When Klopp praised Mctominay as having good potential he also had much higher praise for a ‘wonderful player’ who was none other than Robert Snodgrass.

 

[NLunited]

He is a good player, but can‘t be relied on being the playmaker. As soon as he has to do that, he looks poor. Like when Casemiro and Eriksen aren‘t available, we are rightly fecked.

I‘m convinced he will have a great time elsewhere. He can be a backup for us or a starter elsewhere, so it is up to him.