Scott McTominay | Napoli

Hammondo said:
True but as soon as we did the subs we were on top of them, pinned them back.
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Marwood said:
See below comments on Bruno:













I mean the difference between how you talk about Bruno and how you talk about McTominay. Baffling.

You don’t want Bruno in the middle of the pitch because that doesn't allow us control. But you do want McTominay there.

Take a step back and think that through.
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Marwood said:
See below comments on Bruno:













I mean the difference between how you talk about Bruno and how you talk about McTominay. Baffling.

You don’t want Bruno in the middle of the pitch because that doesn't allow us control. But you do want McTominay there.

Take a step back and think that through.
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So you can't criticize Bruno on here or what? And excuse me for asking again, how I am talking about McT? And why do you run away from your stupid correlation from "Mount is better" based on absolutely nothing, but waste time to drag my criticism of Bruno when he had shocking games? And he has lots of crap games but that's irrelevant for your original take.

Can you please elaborate how and based on what shown by Mount you were slating McT? And I didn't even say to you that I wanted McT "there", you pulled that out of your imagination.
 
mctrials23 said:
Its weird isn't it. People can watch a player for years being decent enough but not amazing and then magically watch them do much better in a different league and instead of thinking "hmm, perhaps that different league is easier" they think that magically the player has transformed overnight. Antony is having a great time in La Liga. You can watch him in the highlights and he has acres of space compared to the PL, the players are slower and less physical as well. It suits him. Thats great. Thats where he should be playing to make the most of his talent. Same with McTominay. Italy suits him.

I don't see why we need to always try and use these things as sticks to beat our own team with. I'm happy McTominay is having a good time in Italy. Guy was a model professional for us and seems like a great guy. I wish him all the success and trophies he can get his hands on over there. Doesn't mean I think he should still be at United.

I feel similar of Antony. I think he should be playing in a league that suits him. No hard feelings, hes just not suited to the PL.
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Agree with that. Them dropping a level is just not mentioned. I'd say Sociedad were physically poorer than any Prem League team we've played this season.

And what I'd add is there's an element of brainwashing going on as to how they're performing for their new clubs.

For McTominay in particular there hasn't been some mad transformation even when playing in a weaker league.

Even Antony. Our main criticism was his lack of goals. Good start in the Spanish league for him and then 1 in 9. 3 in total. It's better but not some incredible leap from his time here.
 
He's the reason we didn't finish lower than 8th last season. Took his goals out of the team plus losing Rashford and Antony (which I agree with) and you get the current season.
 
At the top of Serie A with 4 games left to play, he probably has no regrets leaving United. He's now competing for titles and playing in the CL.
 
So good to see him doing well there. Always gave his all. No regrets in seeing him leave, he would've struggled in our team right now.

Both the goals yesterday were classic Scotty, get into the box late and show good movement to get on the end of a cross.
 
Kostov said:
So you can't criticize Bruno on here or what? And excuse me for asking again, how I am talking about McT? And why do you run away from your stupid correlation from "Mount is better" based on absolutely nothing, but waste time to drag my criticism of Bruno when he had shocking games? And he has lots of crap games but that's irrelevant for your original take.

Can you please elaborate how and based on what shown by Mount you were slating McT? And I didn't even say to you that I wanted McT "there", you pulled that out of your imagination.
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Bruno deserves some criticism, he was sloppy as feck yesterday, and he's not great against the press.
 
giorno said:
Lukaku's not doing so well actually. He's old. Think Napoli might try to upgrade on him if they can
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He's got 22 goals and assists in 33 league games right? I'm sure he's not the player he once was but sounds like he's doing well to me.
 
Napolis last 4 games are against teams currently 13th, 15th, 16th & 17th

Run ins rarely go entirely to plan but it could be a procession for Napoli and if Scott keeps scoring he may very well get those individual awards. Which is mad given how limited he is but I'd be over the moon for him - fair play to Conte he really knows how to identify the right players for his system

One thing that's not mentioned enough is how big an asset he is on defensive set pieces - there's no question in my mind we'd have conceded far less set piece goals this season with him in the side. He attacks the ball really well with a lot of aggression

He also ran 12.5k+ yesterday more than any other player by a margin
 
Of course, Serie A being less physically demanding than the PL and him acting as a well-crafted, specialist clog in a well-oiled, pragmatic Conte's machine does not make him himself a world beater CM all at once. The underlying point, as usual in these topics, is a lot of your former players just need their niche to thrive and show they are not so bad as when playing for United.
 
Bepi said:
Of course, Serie A being less physically demanding than the PL and him acting as a well-crafted, specialist clog in a well-oiled, pragmatic Conte's machine does not make him himself a world beater CM all at once. The underlying point, as usual in these topics, is a lot of your former players just need their niche to thrive and show they are not so bad as when playing for United.
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Is he genuinely playing CM? A lot of the goals I've seen he seems to be already in an advanced position, rather than where you'd expect a midfielder to be, but when I look on transfermarkt they have him down as 29 games centre mid and 2 as an attacking mid.
 
DOTA said:
He's got 22 goals and assists in 33 league games right? I'm sure he's not the player he once was but sounds like he's doing well to me.
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He's hit and miss. Either very good, or they play with 10 men. Overall he's not doing badly or anything, but Napoli shouldn't currently be relying so much on McT to carry them to the finish line. Mind you, they planned to have Kvara for the season and then Neres who'd been doing really well too got injured as well
 
DOTA said:
Is he genuinely playing CM? A lot of the goals I've seen he seems to be already in an advanced position, rather than where you'd expect a midfielder to be, but when I look on transfermarkt they have him down as 29 games centre mid and 2 as an attacking mid.
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They have a midfield 3 with a pure DM in Lobotka, flanked by box-to-box Anguissa on the right and incursor Scotty on the left. It works!
 
Solius said:
He's the reason we didn't finish lower than 8th last season. Took his goals out of the team plus losing Rashford and Antony (which I agree with) and you get the current season.
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This is 100% accurate. Although it also doesn't make the decision to try and move on from those three players any less correct.
 
giorno said:
He's hit and miss. Either very good, or they play with 10 men. Overall he's not doing badly or anything, but Napoli shouldn't currently be relying so much on McT to carry them to the finish line. Mind you, they planned to have Kvara for the season and then Neres who'd been doing really well too got injured as well
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Ahh right, that does sound problematic in fairness.
Bepi said:
They have a midfield 3 with a pure DM in Lobotka, flanked by box-to-box Anguissa on the right and incursor Scotty on the left. It works!
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Thanks, I can see how he'd thrive in that.
 
Red_Aaron said:
Napolis last 4 games are against teams currently 13th, 15th, 16th & 17th

Run ins rarely go entirely to plan but it could be a procession for Napoli and if Scott keeps scoring he may very well get those individual awards. Which is mad given how limited he is but I'd be over the moon for him - fair play to Conte he really knows how to identify the right players for his system

One thing that's not mentioned enough is how big an asset he is on defensive set pieces - there's no question in my mind we'd have conceded far less set piece goals this season with him in the side. He attacks the ball really well with a lot of aggression

He also ran 12.5k+ yesterday more than any other player by a margin
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Thats pretty impressive. He was decent in terms of stamina even for us but I don't remember him as an endless runner. Maybe because Fred next to him skewed all metrics in that.
DOTA said:
Is he genuinely playing CM? A lot of the goals I've seen he seems to be already in an advanced position, rather than where you'd expect a midfielder to be, but when I look on transfermarkt they have him down as 29 games centre mid and 2 as an attacking mid.
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From what I read on reddit during his first few month, it appeared pretty similar to us. He started in midfield and against the ball, that his sphere of influence but on the ball, he is pushing forwards and isn't very involved in the buildup. Anguissa is the playmaker in Napoli and the duo of him and Lobotka were described as pretty functional even as a two because they are pretty well rounded and have good athleticism. Don't know whether that changed over time though. But at the beginning, he was described just as with us - you notice that he is there when he scores or is on the end of a chance, apart from that, there isn't a lot.
 
Napoli are running out of centre backs in the run in. Depending on boungiorno's injury, they'll be down to just two and one of them is Rafa Marin who has played about 140 minutes all season
 
Lay said:
Napoli are running out of centre backs in the run in. Depending on boungiorno's injury, they'll be down to just two and one of them is Rafa Marin who has played about 140 minutes all season
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If only they had a central midfielder who's a beast in the air and has often played as a centre back for his country.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This is 100% accurate. Although it also doesn't make the decision to try and move on from those three players any less correct.
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It kind of does when we're not replacing the positive attributes they brought to the team.

It's a bit different in cases where there's an attitude or application problem such as with Rashford. In the case of McT though, it's one thing to decide he's not good enough for where we want to be long term, it's another thing altogether to get rid of a midfielder that does a lot of running and has a knack for grabbing goals for the team to then be scoring less goals and for the fans to be complaining about the lack of pace and physicality in the side.

We look to have done the same with the keeper as well. That's just really poor management and planning from the clubs perspective, and is the main reason we've continued to stagnate/decline with each passing season.

It's OK to decide a player isn't good enough long term, or that they don't necessarily fit a system or whatever....we have to upgrade on them though, or there's really no point in getting rid in the first place, ie the decision was incorrect in the short term (and probably the longer term if the replacement is less productive).
 
I think we were right to move him on but because we replaced him so poorly it just looks like a bad decision.

In Italy he has a lot more time and space in midfield then he would ever receive in the premier league but also playing more advanced which he rarely did for us unless those sub performances where he did score some winning goals for us coming off the bench. Great decision for him to move to Italy though because it seems like he is thriving and loving it in Naples.
 
Hammondo said:
Bruno deserves some criticism, he was sloppy as feck yesterday, and he's not great against the press.
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He does, but he is not in the same bracket as McT, Bruno is frustrating since we all have much much higher expectations of him. Every United fan understands how important he is to our play. Yet some choose to ignore that players like Bruno are much bigger problems than some squad player like McT was. Our so called game changers are often lacking and Bruno is no different.
 
I said at the time he was leaving it’s a mistake to sell him, and I stand by that. Glad he’s smashing it in Italy I hope they get it over the line and win the title.
 
Bruno Fernandes would look like a god among mortals in serie A

Just so you know
 
Bepi said:
Of course, Serie A being less physically demanding than the PL and him acting as a well-crafted, specialist clog in a well-oiled, pragmatic Conte's machine does not make him himself a world beater CM all at once. The underlying point, as usual in these topics, is a lot of your former players just need their niche to thrive and show they are not so bad as when playing for United.
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Can't work out if this is a typo or a little dig at Scott
 
Bepi said:
Of course, Serie A being less physically demanding than the PL and him acting as a well-crafted, specialist clog in a well-oiled, pragmatic Conte's machine does not make him himself a world beater CM all at once. The underlying point, as usual in these topics, is a lot of your former players just need their niche to thrive and show they are not so bad as when playing for United.
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But how he is thriving this season compared to last season? What's the significant change in his performances?
 
giorno said:
Bruno Fernandes would look like a god among mortals in serie A

Just so you know
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Nope imho, he was out of his pond at Sampdoria 10 years ago as a hail mary attacking mid and would be today as well, not being a Chalanoglu or a Mikhytarian type of CM... same as Douglas Luiz (a set pacer CM among olympic sprinters in the PL, just another overthinker among similar yet smarter CMs in Italy)

Jimmy Greenhoff's Chest said:
Can't work out if this is a typo or a little dig at Scott
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Marwood said:
But how he is thriving this season compared to last season? What's the significant change in his performances?
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Ahah no it was a typo, I meant a COG not a CLOG ... and significant change = meaningful impact in a clearly designed setup?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If only they had a central midfielder who's a beast in the air and has often played as a centre back for his country.
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No doubt but then he is sorely missed in attack. Anyway, if Napoli can't beat the remaining teams than they only have themselves to blame.
 
Marwood said:
But how he is thriving this season compared to last season? What's the significant change in his performances?
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It's a fair question. Maybe individually his stats tell a story.

However, he's thriving in the sense that he may very well win a title with Napoli. Something that was miles off when he was here and even further off since he left. He's in a team that is clicking and title chasing and he's a big part of that squad.
 
There’s a version of United that needed McT’s goal contributions/impact and there’s a version that needed the money from his sale.

The version that doesn’t prioritize the fee has enough talent and is set up right to maximize his talent and minimize any risks (basically a better more balanced team which we clearly haven’t been for a while).

He’s no longer at the club so fans shouldn’t view his success's as a slight on the club. In either scenario McT holds no blame for being the player he is. He’s one of ours so should be celebrated and supported in his own right. Good luck Scotty.
 
McLvnsMuse said:
There’s a version of United that needed McT’s goal contributions/impact and there’s a version that needed the money from his sale.

The version that doesn’t prioritize the fee has enough talent and is set up right to maximize his talent and minimize any risks (basically a better more balanced team which we clearly haven’t been for a while).

He’s no longer at the club so fans shouldn’t view his success's as a slight on the club. In either scenario McT holds no blame for being the player he is. He’s one of ours so should be celebrated and supported in his own right. Good luck Scotty.
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That aside United would have been a far better team if we kept Scott + Elanga AND never signed Antony + Mount.

That team wouldn’t necessarily challenge for the title or maybe even top 4 *without spending the £100m saved on at least 2 world class players to raise the squads level*
 
baskinginthesun said:
It's a fair question. Maybe individually his stats tell a story.

However, he's thriving in the sense that he may very well win a title with Napoli. Something that was miles off when he was here and even further off since he left. He's in a team that is clicking and title chasing and he's a big part of that squad.
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Yeah it's where he's performing that's changed. The situation he's performing in has changed. From a struggling team to a team going for a title. That's what's skewering the perception.

The actual performances themselves I'm waiting for someone to tell me why they're so different from last season.
 
Marwood said:
Yeah it's where he's performing that's changed. The situation he's performing in has changed. From a struggling team to a team going for a title. That's what's skewering the perception.

The actual performances themselves I'm waiting for someone to tell me why they're so different from last season.
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His performances are not significantly different, but here is the thing, as much as people detest it McTominay was one of Utds most effective players last season, he has taken that to Napoli and instead of his flaws(of which he has many) being the focus the things he does well are bring employed and celebrated, and it is winning his club games and possibly a title.

Mentioned it before and you see it in this thread that people refused to give him credit for the things he was doing well, he had become such an easy target that people resented giving him even qualified praise when he played well, denied it ever happened. It was pathetic, especially given that he was one of the lowest paid members of the first team squad in an era when people were pining for years for actual shit like Donny to get games.

It was the right move for him at the right time. In an era when Utd were run like a competent club he would have been a decent squad option, not his fault Utd have been a shambles for a decade. Good player, happy for him, just like when Chris Smalling went to Roma and showed he was a still bloody good player away from the toxicity of Utd.
 
Delighted for him.
Watched Ederson yesterday against Lecce though and the space and time players get in Serie A is huge compared to the PL.
Scott always had a good finish in him.
 
Marwood said:
Yeah it's where he's performing that's changed. The situation he's performing in has changed. From a struggling team to a team going for a title. That's what's skewering the perception.

The actual performances themselves I'm waiting for someone to tell me why they're so different from last season.
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He's the same player as he was, it's just he's now playing further forward rather than the idiotic DM position he played here for years.

His game is basically getting into the box to get on the end of chances and when defending he's an extra man in midfield but the on the ball midfield work is done by Lobotka and others
 
Marwood said:
Yeah it's where he's performing that's changed. The situation he's performing in has changed. From a struggling team to a team going for a title. That's what's skewering the perception.

The actual performances themselves I'm waiting for someone to tell me why they're so different from last season.
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Why though? You started that argument back on page 27 or something.

Most posters are pretty happy for him and you decided to bring up his passing stats. For the record, passes don't win games. Bloody goals do. He's still banging in important goals for Napoli just as he did for us last season in a team that was shite. He's now doing the same thing in a better team that's on its way to a possible title. Meanwhile, we've regressed further and some could argue he was the difference in our position last season because of his goals.

We have a right to clamour for him because we're awful at scoring. A key aspect of winning football matches.

At the end of the day, it was right to let him go because we were supposed to get somebody better. But, that didn't pan out and here we are having an even worse season with a team that can't score goals.
 
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