For the way we want to play he isn't good enough - not good enough with passing, not good enough with the ball to his feet, his dribble is trash
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But he was a starter according to you at the start of this thread and not someone ETH was looking to replace. You were wrong and you’ve clearly changed your mind so he’s obviously not as good as you previously made out or thought he was.
Under Ole and Ralf he was a guaranteed starter, he now isn’t even trusted to start Europa games against weak teams. He’s been well and truly demoted along with likes of Maguire and Fred who were also guaranteed starters. That’s shows you how manager rates them, their first players he’s made sure he doesn’t have to start.
Not everyone can be replaced straight away, but assuming the fact he gets subbed on is some sort of backup for your argument is just as misguided as when you were wrong to assume ETH would start him and wasn’t looking to replace him. If anything him not being trusted to start suggests he isn’t a good squad player and he’ll lose more game time when some are brought in.
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Passes leading directly to a shot on goal
I think if you read back I have always stated McT is a squad player, and a useful one at that. It does appear that the management team feel the same. I don't think that's a controversial statement to be honest and I haven't changed my stance on that.
Can we do better? For sure, but only City van get away with having two world class players in every position, United can't. So squad players are useful and have their purpose.
You have referred to him as a sure fire starter under SAF and said that ETH wasn’t looking to replace him in the starting lineup so he’s clearly getting worse in your eyes.
You may he is a good squad player but he’s not performing like one and guessing what manager thinks of him to backup what you are saying doesn’t make sense. When he isn’t even trusted to start in the Europa it doesn’t seem like the coaches think he’s a good squad player.
Mctominay and Maguire have bad biggest demotions under ETH, they’ve gone from first names on team sheet to not starting and being behind likes of Lindelof, Fred and DVB. ETH’s assessment of them clearly isn’t that favourable.
From the way we want to play Fred, Lindelof, Maguire, Awb and Martial are not good enough. He is a DM and he is better than Fred so if we dont change half of the squad wich I dont see happening he is a useful part of 30 men who we have at our disposal.
he's a squad player and has shown he's good enough, otherwise why is he still picked despite the changes in coaching teams?
Going back to the beginning of the thread, this is what I said.
So it's clear I've stayed consistent in my viewpoint, unlike some other knee jerk views in this thread.
He's a good squad player, all this hyperbole that he's useless or a championship player et al, is hilarious to read.
You said he was a sure fire starter for SAF, that’s just as silly as some of bad stuff said about him and isn’t consistent with what you’re saying now.
I suggested he would be, mainly due to Sir Alex's tendancy to have players such as Fletcher, Cleverly, O Shea, McClair, P. Neville, most of which have to most apps in SAFs tenure.
He loved a squad player, someone who will work hard but who may not have been the best player in the world.
Here's what Sir Alex said about McT: "Scott McTominay is now emerging as one of Man United's big players. When you watch Man United pick their team for a big game, McTominay's name is in it. He's a good character, a great trainer.
Oh and as a final word ...who signed McT as a young kid??
I suggested he would be, mainly due to Sir Alex's tendancy to have players such as Fletcher, Cleverly, O Shea, McClair, P. Neville, most of which have to most apps in SAFs tenure.
He loved a squad player, someone who will work hard but who may not have been the best player in the world.
Here's what Sir Alex said about McT: "Scott McTominay is now emerging as one of Man United's big players. When you watch Man United pick their team for a big game, McTominay's name is in it. He's a good character, a great trainer.
Oh and as a final word ...who signed McT as a young kid??
I think joined the club when he was about 6 or 7 so I can assume it wasn’t SAF, you obviously know who it was though or maybe you just didn’t think that through. What are your thoughts on Phil Jones, next Duncan Edwards I would guess.
That period of his absolutely awful side footed shot, followed by a 10 yard pass straight to the opposition shows why he just keep being a starter.
I feel like I never see this kind of inconsistency at other top clubs.
I feel like I never see this kind of inconsistency at other top clubs.
Awb is better passer than him.
The one thing that immediately lets you know he's a poor midfielder at this level is how many touches he needs to take to make a pass of medium length.
If he's on the right side of the centre circle in our half and Eriksen for example is on the left side, instead of getting the ball out of his feet and passing in two touches, he runs with the ball for a few yards to get closer then passes. At this point he has completely closed the window of opportunity to open up teams as they are able to get back in shape. Casemiro plays instant passes and you can see the impact it has on the team in an attacking sense.
If he's on the right side of the centre circle in our half and Eriksen for example is on the left side, instead of getting the ball out of his feet and passing in two touches, he runs with the ball for a few yards to get closer then passes. At this point he has completely closed the window of opportunity to open up teams as they are able to get back in shape. Casemiro plays instant passes and you can see the impact it has on the team in an attacking sense.
Jesus man, it was Sir Alex who brought him to the club.
As a 5 year old, don’t quite get how a football club works do you.
I take it you've never watched Darwin Nunez? Raheem Sterling? Hugo Lloris? Granit Xhaka? Martinelli? John Stones? None of them are shit players either. Well, maybe Xhaka.
He sticks out like a sore thumb at times when we try to build one touch moves in the final third. I like Scott for his attitude but the quality will always be lacking at a club like United.
SAF helped deliver his birth. Held him up by his ankles and vowed to see him sign for United as soon as he could walk.
And has continued to sing his praises and claim he needs to play in every big game the club has.
Yeah, I guess Sir Alex (and I) don't know how a club works
He just seems like the kind of player who’d naturally fit into a Southgate side. I’m sure he’d be selected ahead of Rice, if he played for England.
He’s been pretty good this season so far. Good enough to keep Casemiro out of the team for a few games.
He was really bad vs Burnley though. Horrific. Must be short of match fitnesss.
He was really bad vs Burnley though. Horrific. Must be short of match fitnesss.
And has continued to sing his praises and claim he needs to play in every big game the club has.
Yeah, I guess Sir Alex (and I) don't know how a club works
No it’s just you that thinks SAF was going around recruiting 5 year olds so no need to bracket him with you.
Scott had a great ultrasound apparently and that’s what tipped Fergie off. Huge focus for him in the mid to late 90s was personal recruitment of embryos to 5 year olds.
He is the kind of player you want when your team dont want to play football due to the opposition having a much better quality, especially in midfield. He will run his socks off, foul players and be annoying. Maybe thats why Jose liked him so much.
As to why Sir Alex said he always plays in big games, thats... partially true bcause we have been shite in midfield and had to rely on his dirty tricks to win the ball back. The priority has shifted now Ten Hag is the manager.
As to why Sir Alex said he always plays in big games, thats... partially true bcause we have been shite in midfield and had to rely on his dirty tricks to win the ball back. The priority has shifted now Ten Hag is the manager.
With all due respect, and this will be my last word to you in this as you are offering absolutely nothing constructive to the conversation.
Sir Alex, Jose and Ole have heaped praise on McT repeatedly. Jose so far as to create an award for him.
Southgate wanted him to change national teams.
ETH has praised McT and stated that his form was actively keeping Casemiro out.of the team, and has recently praised him for fighting for his spot since Casemiro has stepped in and his playing time has been reduced.
I'd take what they say over someone who didn't even know that Sir Alex was the one who signed him at youth level.
You may not like him, but it's evident several managers have and do still like him, and as long as he is prepared to be a squad player he will be used by ETH.
We can’t have 6 Casemiros fighting for 2 spots.
He's definitely a good squad player.
He’s a weird one. In the next 20 games he’ll have 3 world class performances and the rest we’ll be questioning his football ability.
What I look for in young footballers as they mature is whether they improve in any facet of their game. That just happened with McTominay.
This is the hottest goddamn take I've seen in a while
Not uncommon among really good athletes who are also just mid-table types. Onana is that right now and he'd be the exact same, for instance.
Gotta bump this thread because I was one of his biggest critics and people disagreed a lot with me and few others back then saying we were wrong for cticising him that much and that there is a reason previous managers played him a lot. It's quite clear we play much better without him, and thankfully ETH doesn't find him important at all anymore, even VDB is more important these days. He is simply not good enough for us, and we play much better without him in our midflmield.
Where is he anyway?
On the bench.
McTominay is backup to Casemiro. Everyone has their role, it's not just a generic midfield group. Casemiro/McTominay is the DM, Eriksen/Fred is the CM, Bruno/Donny is the AM. Anyone goes down, and their direct replacement comes in. That's all there is. McTominay is very good to have as a squad player for us.
He’s literally been involved in every single game this season - regularly as the first sub - until he got ill this week.
Disagree. Any of his strengths are massively downplayed by his inability to show for and get involved in the game on the ball. He averages the lowest attempted passes at the club in central midfield by a considerable distance (and probably across the top 6 clubs). It’s such a simple but huge flaw in his game.
Yeah but again - he's a squad player. He's a backup to Casemiro. He can come in during big games and we aren't completely fecked, as he's shown regularly in big games. A squad player behind the best in the world in his position will never be a complete, top player. It's normally very tough to even get a decent player there. So I'm very happy to have McTominay as that, because he'd be content with that role too.
He literally didn't. Fred is the first midfield sub these days and he's not been involved tonight, and he didn't play against Villa one minute either. Last game he started was 11 games ago against City and was hooked of after 59. minutes, and since then he's missed one game for suspension, two for ilness, and played total of 95 minutes out of 630 available. Of course it coincidented with our best run of form this season too in which we basically dominatwd every game in midfield.
He's a squad player isn't very good argument because he is that because we have no one better. Martin Dubravka was also squad player and backup to de Gea. Elanga is also backup to the likes of Rashford and Martial. He used to be first XI player too, but doesn't mean he was good at that.
He is not a good backup to Casemiro because that's not even his best midfield position, I mean he plays there because we have no one else but defensive midfielder is literally the worst position suited to his skills, only thing he is good at there is winning defensive headers, he is much better as box to box midfielder.
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