[El__Jingo]

Said it before and ill say it again, the worst midfield player to have 100 apps for us.

to put it into context Gibson has 31apps, Cleverley had 55 !!

Mctominay 101 and counting ... and we wonder why the clubs on its ass.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

About four times in the game against Chelsea, he invited the wrath of other players, including Fred's by not seeing a forward pass and instead passing it back/sideways. He looked like he was playing nervously. He will need to learn to do more first time passes and see the available forward players.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Fair enough giving him praise for containing some of Chelsea’s attacking play. But he also encouraged it with sideways passing and poor fouls.

There either needs to be a shift in attitude towards how we approach the big games where by we control it or we but a player who can do what he does and more 10 times better.

 

[Ekeke]

About four times in the game against Chelsea, he invited the wrath of other players, including Fred's by not seeing a forward pass and instead passing it back/sideways. He looked like he was playing nervously. He will need to learn to do more first time passes and see the available forward players.

When you say it like this its funny because Pogba and other CMs dont play every forward pass either. Fred certainly doesnt. But yes its a bit too often with McTominay and an area he needs to do better with. So does Fred

McTominay even on a good day in an easier match than against Chelsea is content with 1 nice pass forward into space, and 1 nice switch from one side to the other - while we need someone in midfield doing that 3 or 4 times a half not once per game. So I think its about character and workrate on the ball too as well as making the right choices of when to play a forward pass

 

[largelyworried]

Article on McTominay from the Athletic

https://theathletic.com/2985230/202...than-a-midfielder-to-halt-chelsea-wing-backs/

McTominay played more as a defender than a midfielder to halt Chelsea wing-backs

...Instead of remaining in his midfield role, he spent much of the game dropping in as a right-sided centre-back, turning Manchester United into something more like a 5-2-3 and roughly matching Chelsea’s system....

Worth a read.

 

[Ekeke]

Article on McTominay from the Athletic

https://theathletic.com/2985230/202...than-a-midfielder-to-halt-chelsea-wing-backs/



Worth a read.

McTominay was almost as far forward on average as Bruno. Very slightly further than Matic, and Fred was clearly furthest forward. He doubled up a couple of times, it was nowhere near the majority of time. Most of the time he was playing towards the right of midfield, because he was picked on the right of the CMs and thats his area

 

[largelyworried]

McTominay was almost as far forward on average as Bruno. Very slightly further than Matic, and Fred was clearly furthest forward. He doubled up a couple of times, it was nowhere near the majority of time. Most of the time he was playing towards the right of midfield, because he was picked on the right of the CMs and thats his area

Did you read the article?

 

[Bestietom]

Said it before and ill say it again, the worst midfield player to have 100 apps for us.

to put it into context Gibson has 31apps, Cleverley had 55 !!

Mctominay 101 and counting ... and we wonder why the clubs on its ass.

Don't know what you are looking at mate.

 

[Oranges038]

I think McTominay and Fred could both flourish under Rangnick with some proper coaching. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens.

Doesn't matter who the coach is, these two just aren't good enough for Utd. What they lack can't be coached.

 

[dutchred]

I would try him at right back. Cant be any worse then AWB

 

[stoinz]

I really like him. He can be our new O-Shea. During the Chelsea match, he was almost playing as a central defender. He shouldn't be in our starting 11 but he is more than good enough to be part of the squad. The issue now is when we rely on him to be our starting midfielder expecting him to do things that he cannot. The matter is made worst when our midfield and tactics is such a mess.

He can still do a job in a rigid system. But he is still youngish for a midfielder and maybe Rangnick can do some magic.

 

[Lentwood]

I have been critical of both Fred and McTominay but to be fair, we haven't been playing to their strengths.

Ole wanted to use them in a double-pivot, whereby their role would be/should be taking the ball from the CBs and progressing the ball. Now, this was never going to be a strong point for either, both look uncomfortable receiving the ball with their back to the opposition goal and McT in particular is too large to be really mobile/nimble enough to play effectively on the half-turn.

What it looks like we might do under Rangnick is look to bypass the slow build up through the midfield and instead turn oppenents round and utilise McT and Fred much higher up the pitch to go and join the press.

I would anticipate we will almost end up defending with a 4-2-4. The CF, the two wide players and one of the midfielders (Bruno, Fred, McT) will press the opposition back four/DMs and the two midfielders will be nice and high and aggressive in setting traps in the passing channels

 

[TsuWave]

what does this guy even do

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

When you say it like this its funny because Pogba and other CMs dont play every forward pass either. Fred certainly doesnt. But yes its a bit too often with McTominay and an area he needs to do better with. So does Fred

Not passing forward every time is fine. Our midfielders are ponderous, I agree. But not passing forward when a blatantly obvious choice to pass forward is present during transition and instead passing sideways/backwards is not so fine. Especially when it was easier to pass forward compared to passing it sideways/backwards. No wonder even Fred was flabbergasted. It was poor by even his (Fred's) standards.

 

[Black Adder]

what does this guy even do

Someone once said he's master of making himself look busy without doing anything of note.

He regularly hides behind players so he can't receive a pass, when having ball he either opts for safe sideways passes or passes to the first teammate available. Can't hit right weight of pass, it's either too soft or too hard, bouncy so that receiver has hard time controlling it and likes to jog around while everyone else burst their guts out.

Below average player.

 

[arnie_ni]

Rashford was incredibly lazy and anonymous. Barely realised he was playing at half time. He had a very brief good patch (with the rest of the team) after the goal - which he did his best to mess up by being offside the entire time, so forcing Sancho to effectively go it alone rather than being able to square it for a tap-in.
Bruno was Bruno. Worked hard, capable of magic, but also very sloppy in possession and prone to taking risks when he shouldnt - essentially a hero complex of trying to do it all himself. There have been times when we have needed that, but as a team we need to move past it.
Sancho did well for the goal. He was shocking in the first half - giving away possession constantly and just looking on a different wavelength to the rest of the team. Did better in the second half, but hardly what I would call a great performance. For me, Sancho's best moments have always come through linking up with Donny - we should be playing them together where possible.

This post perfectly sums up the front 3 from Sunday.

I just wish someone on sky would name drop rashford the next time they say Ronaldo doesn't press because he barely fecking moves.

 

[Kostov]

Not passing forward every time is fine. Our midfielders are ponderous, I agree. But not passing forward when a blatantly obvious choice to pass forward is present during transition and instead passing sideways/backwards is not so fine. Especially when it was easier to pass forward compared to passing it sideways/backwards. No wonder even Fred was flabbergasted. It was poor by even his (Fred's) standards.

Just a few days ago there was an identical incident when Maguire was annoyed with Fred doing absolutely the same thing, does it say the same thing? I am not sure who watches us play and can say that Fred is any better than McT, he is just as appalling.

 

[Walrus]

what does this guy even do

Listens to his tactical instruction, which clearly appears to be more about staying back and covering the defense, than running around like a headless chicken a-la Fred.

 

[L1nk]

By all accounts he wasn't that bad against Chelsea, but did anyone else see this blatant backwards pass during the game and get irrationally annoyed by it? Because I did

 

[Andersons Dietician]

By all accounts he wasn't that bad against Chelsea, but did anyone else see this blatant backwards pass during the game and get irrationally annoyed by it? Because I did

That wasn’t even the worst one of the day. I was pulling my hair out at some of the things he turned away from when they were perfectly easy passes.

 

[Isotope]

I'm fine with square and backpasses from him. It's his hiding from passes, back off from opponent when defending, and just prounching around like peacock off the ball making him look bad, imho. Loved him when he first emerged because he did the basic things superbly as a DM.

We did need his height against Chelsea's famous set-pieces.

 

[Teja]

Did you read the article?

Was wondering the same.

He ran quite a bit yesterday covering RB + CM even if he didn't put in the volume of tackles. Probably why he got MoTM.

One thing the article doesn't mention is him getting back into the midfield to block up spaces as soon as AwB is in position and constantly shuttling between these two roles. I think Fred even yelled at him once during a counter attack when McT zoned out and was jogging back in the middle of the park instead of going towards Alonso on the right.

If they tracked sprints independently of pressures, I think he'd be pretty high up there.

 

[TsuWave]

Listens to his tactical instruction, which clearly appears to be more about staying back and covering the defense, than running around like a headless chicken a-la Fred.

you might be a generational talent when it comes to fictional novels

 

[Shimo]

By all accounts he wasn't that bad against Chelsea, but did anyone else see this blatant backwards pass during the game and get irrationally annoyed by it? Because I did

I didn't notice that one during the game but, there was another incident where Fred went off him when it was easier to move forward than turn around and find a back pass.

IMO I think it's a result of the coaching approach he has developed under, first Mourinho and then Ole where his role has been one of safety first and foremost. He follows the managers wishes absolutely. That I think might be a good thing once Ragnik comes in - think he'll take in the direction to look forward and back/side passes are a last resort.

I look at it this way, there are many so called smaller teams that have manager that play with a more forward first approach and through training, even those players often are able to start playing with that mentality - they may not always have the aptitude for pulling off the passes and such but, mindset is there. If so many of those players can be trained to play that way, no reason why Scott and others won't be able to do the same if that's the approach.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

Just a few days ago there was an identical incident when Maguire was annoyed with Fred doing absolutely the same thing, does it say the same thing? I am not sure who watches us play and can say that Fred is any better than McT, he is just as appalling.

I did not say Fred is a better than McT or vice versa. If anything, I was implying Fred too is very erratic with his passing when I said McT was poor by even Fred's standards. I shouldn't need to explain this.

This was a comment about McT's on the ball performance in a single game i.e. against Chelsea which had no bearing or correlation with quality of any other players in any other games or Mctominay's performance as a ball winner or his off the ball performance in the same game. I don't know why every conversation on this forum has to be watered down to simplistic, 'whataboutery' and squabbling around X player vs Y player.

 

[Kostov]

I did not say Fred is a better than McT or vice versa. If anything, I was implying Fred too is very erratic with his passing when I said McT was poor by even Fred's standards. I shouldn't need to explain this.

This was a comment about McT's on the ball performance in a single game i.e. against Chelsea which had no bearing or correlation with quality of any other players in any other games or Mctominay's performance as a ball winner or his off the ball performance in the same game. I don't know why every conversation on this forum has to be watered down to simplistic, 'whataboutery' and squabbling around X player vs Y player.

Sorry maybe I got it wrong, to me it was not poor even by Fred standards, it's their typical level, Fred does the same just as often and I just described a similar incident of Fred's "standard", since you are the one that mentions how the other one was flabbergasted you said? My point is, not the best example, it just shows the lack of self awareness from many of our own players.

 

[Dante]

He'll almost certainly be first choice under Rangnick.

It's been hilarious/depressing seeing people try to gaslight the Caf into believing he hides from the ball or that his positioning is bad. Those two accusations are patently untrue. But if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth...

McTominay's pass-and-move ability and his one-touch play is already at a fairly high level - something that will make him invaluable in Rangnick's passing triangles.

And his pressing is much more efficient than the 'chase after the ball wherever you see it' approach that Fred and Pogba tend to adopt. That's another respect in which I think Scott will adapt better to a structured German style gegenpress.

He'll be getting lots of game time in the remainder of this season. Then people will inevitably give the credit to RR for improving him. But the fundamentals have been there since the Ole and Jose regimes.

 

[romufc]

I have seen enough of McTominay to know that he shouldn't be a regular in this team.

He constantly is in poor positions defensively, going forward he is constantly ignoring a forward pass to make a back pass and then run away.

He does not know how to play the role of a CM.

 

[Dante]

I have seen enough of McTominay to know that he shouldn't be a regular in this team.

He constantly is in poor positions defensively, going forward he is constantly ignoring a forward pass to make a back pass and then run away.

He does not know how to play the role of a CM.

Rubbish.

You don't know how to judge the role of a CM.

 

[Jackal981]

Rubbish.

You don't know how to judge the role of a CM.

Maybe its you who dont know. He's garbage. Worst starter we had ever with 100 apps plus. Every pass is sideways and backwards. His positioning is utter garbage

 

[Dante]

Maybe its you who dont know. He's garbage. Worst starter we had ever with 100 apps plus. Every pass is sideways and backwards. His positioning is utter garbage

Both of those points are obviously untrue.

You don't gain anything by talking shite to try and drown out moderate responses. It just makes you look silly.

 

[romufc]

Rubbish.

You don't know how to judge the role of a CM.

As a CDM, which he has been deployed under Ole, he is constantly caught out of possession.

Liverpool - First goal, he is telling AWB to push and he is caught doing nothing.


Chelsea - Numerous times he is caught in a position where there is no one around him. He is not pushing or watching his man, a pass from back to in between the line is played and there is no cover for CB's.

 

[luke511]

He'll almost certainly be first choice under Rangnick.

It's been hilarious/depressing seeing people try to gaslight the Caf into believing he hides from the ball or that his positioning is bad. Those two accusations are patently untrue. But if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth...

McTominay's pass-and-move ability and his one-touch play is already at a fairly high level - something that will make him invaluable in Rangnick's passing triangles.

And his pressing is much more efficient than the 'chase after the ball wherever you see it' approach that Fred and Pogba tend to adopt. That's another respect in which I think Scott will adapt better to a structured German style gegenpress.

He'll be getting lots of game time in the remainder of this season. Then people will inevitably give the credit to RR for improving him. But the fundamentals have been there since the Ole and Jose regimes.

He's not good enough to be a regular starter for a top side, it's as simple as that. He's too limited technically for a no.8, and not good enough defensively for a no.6. His positioning and awareness needs work (bad coaching probably to blame), I don't think he excels at one touch football at all either, he takes at least 3 touches majority of the time.

 

[The Siege]

I think the two things that shockingly stand out are just how jittery he still looks sometimes even after a 100 apps, and his terrible positioning when he's trying to make himself available to receive the ball. Just shows how much trouble a single player can create if he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing on a football pitch.

 

[Stacks]

He'll almost certainly be first choice under Rangnick.

It's been hilarious/depressing seeing people try to gaslight the Caf into believing he hides from the ball or that his positioning is bad. Those two accusations are patently untrue. But if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth...

McTominay's pass-and-move ability and his one-touch play is already at a fairly high level - something that will make him invaluable in Rangnick's passing triangles.

And his pressing is much more efficient than the 'chase after the ball wherever you see it' approach that Fred and Pogba tend to adopt. That's another respect in which I think Scott will adapt better to a structured German style gegenpress.

He'll be getting lots of game time in the remainder of this season. Then people will inevitably give the credit to RR for improving him. But the fundamentals have been there since the Ole and Jose regimes.

not even a main player for Scotland

 

[luke511]

not even a main player for Scotland

He's in a battle with Stuart Armstrong as 4th choice centre mid

 

[Roboc7]

He'll almost certainly be first choice under Rangnick.

It's been hilarious/depressing seeing people try to gaslight the Caf into believing he hides from the ball or that his positioning is bad. Those two accusations are patently untrue. But if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth...

McTominay's pass-and-move ability and his one-touch play is already at a fairly high level - something that will make him invaluable in Rangnick's passing triangles.

And his pressing is much more efficient than the 'chase after the ball wherever you see it' approach that Fred and Pogba tend to adopt. That's another respect in which I think Scott will adapt better to a structured German style gegenpress.

He'll be getting lots of game time in the remainder of this season. Then people will inevitably give the credit to RR for improving him. But the fundamentals have been there since the Ole and Jose regimes.

Its pretty obvious his positioning on and off the ball is really poor, it’s also the fundamentals that are lacking and it’s his physicality that sometimes papers over that. His ball watching is as bad as I’ve ever seen at this level as well.

He’ll get chances though because we won’t be buying anyone until the summer but dramatic improvement is required and very quickly.

 

[RedDribble]

I have a feeling that he has to rather go further up the pitch almost as a AM or rather down the pitch as a CB.
As the former he does show some effective runs and lethal in the box, and as a CB he does have that toughness in him.
But as a DM, he doesn't understand positioning and progressive passes.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

not even a main player for Scotland

sure. Because operating at center back for them mysteriously makes him less important. Because supposedly a Scotland would rather have its few good players sitted on the bench rather than find a way to put all their good players into the team to its greater benefit[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[United in sin]

Both of those points are obviously untrue.

You don't gain anything by talking shite to try and drown out moderate responses. It just makes you look silly.

Rubbish.

You don't know how to judge the role of a CM.

Almost like different people posted these.

I think McTominay will be afforded a fair chance under Rangnick but will likely see less and less game time as the vision for how we should be playing comes to fruition with more capable players. If we purchase a DM this January I believe McT and Matic will suffer more in terms of game time.

Your evaluation of Fred and Pogba being chase the ball merchants is a poor attempt to make them appear less intelligent in footballing terms than McTominay which can't be further from the truth