[Chripper]

If you grew up watching Maldini, you would have known he is the GOAT at slide tackling. Also you would be old enough to know "Lahm special tackle" too.

Yes. As a last resort.

The best defenders stay on their feet as much as humanly possible.

 

[Chripper]

He has his own thread for that.

So. Tell.me about McTominay's simply misplaced pass.

How many goals did it lead to?

 

[roonster09]

Yes. As a last resort.

The best defenders stay on their feet as much as humanly possible.

For CBs, yes. Not for every position.

Just check Maldini slide tackles and you will see how many times he did that and how awesome he was. It was an art, not many has that ability. Somehow taking one quote people came up with "slide tackling is bad" posts.

 

[roonster09]

@anyone can you post the Hollywood ball that Bruno passed (towards his own box) that lead to the Palace goal?

Keeping things neutral.

No, you are not keeping things neutral. You are getting defensive just because people don't rate a Scottish player.

There is Bruno thread where you can make that request.

 

[GifLord]

@GifLord Can you post the simple pass he misplaces around 50:15

He's never been good enough as a midfielder and it was a shock when Mourinho promoted him.

 

[Adnan]

So. Tell.me about McTominay's simply misplaced pass.

How many goals did it lead to?

The question you should be asking is that how many times has a midfield containing McTominay ceded the midfield against decent teams.

 

[GifLord]

Yes.

Paulo Maldini is many things: A world class footballer, extremely good looking, awesome in the sack (I'm told), a distant relative of Zeus, the next superhero to be introduced into the MCU, but humourist, he is not.

It's true. If you go in for a (slide) tackle then it's the last resort. Translation: stay on your feet.

I grew up watching the great AC Mila defence of Maldini, Baresi, Costa curtains and Tassotti. Don't recall any of them sliding around like Vinny Jones.

You do realize sliding tackles are part of the football and everyone does them?

 

[Chripper]

No, you are not keeping things neutral. You are getting defensive just because people don't rate a Scottish player.

There is Bruno thread where you can make that request.

When I say that I rated him? I want him nowhere mear the Scotland midfield.

Personally, I'm not throwing any player (apart from that Bruno jab) under the bus. We haven't had a manager since Ferguson left. No wonder all of the players look lost.

I don't see what "insult, rinse and repeat" will achieve.

 

[Idxomer]

The way he passes the ball here screams someone who thinks he's much better than he really is, too careless and arrogant.

 

[Adnan]

That's a shocking pass with all the time in the world.

 

[Chripper]

You do realize sliding tackles are part of the football and everyone does them?

Oh. As I said, I grew up watching him.

You'll also notice that all of those tackles were either last resorts or he knew 100% he'd get the ball.

As I said, the very best defenders stay on their feet as long as is humanly possible.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

There's going to a few pissed off people when ET


I get it. But as a new manager, you have no other alterative but to come into things with a fresh eye and forget about the past.

I'm a Scotland fan, so I've seen McTominay more than most United fans. I know what his weaknesses are. But I also have faith that they can be ironed out.

I'm confident that ETH will take a real shine to him. And I'm also confident that ETH will improve him.

From Ralf saying that McTominay can be a future United captain, I'm fairly certain that RR will give Ten Hag a glowing reference about McTominay.

At 25, poor passing, poor technique, amongst other things are not something EtH will simply iron out, he’ll improve players of course but he can’t turn water into wine. In the short term McT will stay due to lack of options, nothing else.

 

[Bondi77]

Awful today.....but he had nine others to keep him company!

 

[Chripper]

The question you should be asking is that how many times has a midfield containing McTominay ceded the midfield against decent teams.

You could drop McTominay's name and insert any United player.

Having scapegoats is rather dumb. If McTominay's teammates were all playing brilliantly, then find, burn McTominay at the stake. But the last time I looked, that ain't the case.

 

[roonster09]

When I say that I rated him? I want him nowhere mear the Scotland midfield.

Personally, I'm not throwing any player (apart from that Bruno jab) under the bus. We haven't had a manager since Ferguson left. No wonder all of the players look lost.

I don't see what "insult, rinse and repeat" will achieve.

We need manager to have the template, i agree but that doesn't mean every player should get free pass.

Is McTominay good enough? I don't think he is and I don't think he should be starting games for us. He doesn't even work hard, for a player who lacks skillset of a CM, his work rate is very poor.

 

[Chripper]

At 25, poor passing, poor technique, amongst other things are not something EtH will simply iron out, he’ll improve players of course but he can’t turn water into wine. In the short term McT will stay due to lack of options, nothing else.

The main thing that lets McTominay down is his spacial awareness. This can be coached.

 

[roonster09]

The main thing that lets McTominay down is his spacial awareness. This can be coached.

Things that lets down McT - work rate, passing ability both short and long, not able to pass between lines, off the ball movement to receive pass, picking right passes, quick decision making.

I'm sure there are few more too.

 

[Adnan]

You could drop McTominay's name and insert any United player.

Having scapegoats is rather dumb. If McTominay's teammates were all playing brilliantly, then find, burn McTominay at the stake. But the last time I looked, that ain't the case.

We need to drop McTominay and insert a new name or else we'll carry on underwhelming, because the deeper midfield players are very important in the build up phase in a team that wants to exert zonal and positional control, both with and without the ball.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

You could drop McTominay's name and insert any United player.

Having scapegoats is rather dumb. If McTominay's teammates were all playing brilliantly, then find, burn McTominay at the stake. But the last time I looked, that ain't the case.

So he has no responsibility over his own performances?

The main thing that lets McTominay down is his spacial awareness. This can be coached.

It’s rather funny you mention spacial awareness when you show a complete lack of awareness to the many deficiencies in McTs game. It’s fans like yourself who take to players & get blinkered that are the problem. We’d all have loved nothing more than for Scott to be a great midfielder but we’ve seen enough at 25 to know what he can be. At other clubs it would be abundantly clear that his future lays elsewhere but we watch this guy stink the place out under Jose, OgS & RR yet you say he only needs help with one element of his game.

He isn’t good enough.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Who slide tackles anymore? This isn't the 50s-90s.

"If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake."

~ Paulo Maldini

No player never made a mistake, so sliding tackle is a MUST skill for a defensive midfielder.

Even attacking players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Giggs put in nice sliding tackles once a while back in the days.

When McTominay got dribbled past, he either jogs slowly back or fouls. It gives our back 4 so much pressure.

The big reason that we concede so many goals is that almost all our defensive players - including Dalot, Lindelof, Telles, McTominay who played yesterday are bad tacklers and adopt a "stand still and retreat" policy when defending. It makes our opponents feel comfortable when they are in position and shift the momentum of the games away from us.

Just go rewatch all 30 PL games McTominay this season, you can't even see a single instance of McTominay putting in a tackle like Kante did in the youtube clip above. This is atrocious for a defensive midfielder.




Even Alan Smith, a made shift midfielder, was better at tackling than McTominay.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The main thing that lets McTominay down is his spacial awareness. This can be coached.

His passing, technique and movement has been shite and not even up to PL level. I think this can’t be coached.

 

[meamth]

Gallagher really humiliated him tonight running straight for the tackle, McT floored like a toddler. If that were Scholes or Carrick, they would have dummied and humiliated Gallagher.

If he can't do that, then he is simply not going to be a Manchester United player any longer.

We need a technical midifield maestro, we can't win anything until we signed one.

 

[Caesar2290]

His passing, technique and movement has been shite and not even up to PL level. I think this can’t be coached.

You can say that about our entire team, so this can be coached.

Doesn't mean he'll be good at it though.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You can say that about our entire team, so this can be coached.

Doesn't mean he'll be good at it though.

Not true. Mctominay is one of worst passer in the team and also the league, not just this season, but throughout his career. His technique has also been lacking since day 1. He can’t even play as midfielder in Scotland - they have better ones in their team and he was shifted to full back over there.

 

[Bogga]

The scary part is... He keeps getting picked for the starting eleven. How crap is our alternatives if he gets picked ahead of them? Cause I doubt all the managers that he's played under are so blind that they don't see how crap of a player he is...

 

[RopersReturn]

McTominay, probably the most overstated midfielder currently playing in the PL. Obviously he’s guaranteed in the starting eleven by default.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Not true. Mctominay is one of worst passer in the team and also the league, not just this season, but throughout his career. His technique has also been lacking since day 1. He can’t even play as midfielder in Scotland - they have better ones in their team and he was shifted to full back over there.

I concur, as I have said before, McTominay is one of the most limited passer in the premier league in terms of variety of pass.
He basically can only perform two kinds of passes using his right foot with average accuracy:
1. standard inside of the foot pass with the ball stuck on the ground
2. kicking the ball with toe/top of the foot for 30-40 yards aerial passes.

That's it.

- He can't cross (it is BS to say a midfielder doesn't need to cross since Keane, Scholes, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Carrick, or even Cleverley, Gibson, OShea whipped in good crosses from time to time)

- He can't pass diagonal ball
(which even Fred could do it at 00:55, can you recall McTominay ever made a pass like that?)


- He can't pass with his left foot

- He can't do any back heel flicks

- He can't do one touch passes

- He can't pass with his outside of foot
see 00:52
(you can't recall McTominay ever made a pass like that)

- He can't make any lob passes or chip passes
see 00:44
(you can't recall McTominay ever made a pass like that)

- He can't apply curves in his long passes (which even Maguire could do it from time to time)

- He can't make any passes 50+ yards. Hence we have one less source for cross field passes.

He is so predictable and easy to defend against.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Not true. Mctominay is one of worst passer in the team and also the league, not just this season, but throughout his career. His technique has also been lacking since day 1. He can’t even play as midfielder in Scotland - they have better ones in their team and he was shifted to full back over there.

and the better Scottish midfielders play in Villa, Newcastle, Celtic or even EFL Championship

 

[RussellWilson]

I have no doubt he'll somehow be starting again next season. Will really be depressing when that happens.

 

[Long Time Red]

Clearly didn't get or didn't read the scouting report on Conor Gallagher yesterday.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I think there's a few players who we know will get atleast until January under our new management and McTom is one of them.
If Hag ,and crew, get something out of him then Hag's a genius.

 

[RopersReturn]

Its make or break time for most of this squad, and that includes McTominay. But then I really don’t think any world class manager would be capable of getting a tune out of this lot, it’s a team full of individuals who clearly have little respect for each other or the coaching staff.

 

[Bebestation]

He is not being picked because he is better than the other players we have -

he is being picked because Fred & Mctominay is still the best partnership we have playing with the least weaknesses.

Matic and Pogba can’t do it anymore. Fred can’t do it defensively deep.

We don’t just lack players - we lack partnerships, cohesion and team.

 

[Chripper]

We need manager to have the template, i agree but that doesn't mean every player should get free pass.

Is McTominay good enough? I don't think he is and I don't think he should be starting games for us. He doesn't even work hard, for a player who lacks skillset of a CM, his work rate is very poor.

It may sound like I'm sticking up for McTominay, but I'm not.

I understand why United fans want him away from the midfield, because as a Scientist fan, I don't want him anywhere near the Scotland midfield.

I'm just hoping that ETH can bring something more of of him. Is it possible? Stranger things have happened.

So he has no responsibility over his own performances?

It’s rather funny you mention spacial awareness when you show a complete lack of awareness to the many deficiencies in McTs game. It’s fans like yourself who take to players & get blinkered that are the problem. We’d all have loved nothing more than for Scott to be a great midfielder but we’ve seen enough at 25 to know what he can be. At other clubs it would be abundantly clear that his future lays elsewhere but we watch this guy stink the place out under Jose, OgS & RR yet you say he only needs help with one element of his game.

He isn’t good enough.

Oh. I'm well aware of the deficiencies in McTominay's game.

So. You're going to write him off because he's 25? Nice. Have you heard of Paul Lambert? He was a decent player for Motherwell in the SPL. Attacking midfielder. He was good but not good enough to play for Scotland.

He moves to Borussia Dortmund at 27 years old. Within 9 months of working under a world class manager (Ottmar Hitzfeld) he transformed from a decent attacking midfielder to a world class anchorman. He left Germany with a European Cup Winner's medal in one pocket and Zinedine Zidane and Paul Scholes in the other.

I'm not saying the same will happen with McTominay, however, I've seen decent players being transformed into top players, under the right manager.

Who said I'm a fan of McTominay? So, I wouldn't really say that I'm blinkered. As a Scotland fan, I don't want him anywhere near the Scotland midfield.

You'd all love for Scott to turn into a great midfielder? I highly doubt it. I remember the abuse Fletcher received for most of his United career. Yes, he managed to turn most of those boos into cheers, but in the end, there was still fans who were so stubborn as to not change their tune.

Who said anything about one element? The spacial awareness thing is the fundamental failure in his game. If he could improve that aspect of his game, he would give himself more time on the ball, therefore, his first touch wouldn't be glaringly exposed.

Did you watch the match where we played Chelsea? People were blaming McTominay for not showing for the ball, for not offering himself, etc. Watch the match again. There was numerous times when Havertz, Werner and Mount were touch tight to Lindelof and Varane. Not giving them even a second's peace. Which lead to Lindelof and Varane losing composure and lumping the ball forward/out of play.

And yes, McTominay was blamed. Forgetting the fact that it woud McTominay who pressed Kante, leading to our goal.

Talking of that match. Modern football is played from the back. If you look at the EPL stats you'll find centerbacks having the most touches and the most passes.

Let's focus on the Chelsea match: Varane (33 touches) and Lindolof's (39 touches) as opposed to Azpilicueta (93 touches), Silva (77 touches) and Rudiger (80 touches)

Rudiger and Azpilicueta each got more touches than Varane and Lindelof combined.

I would love to hear how "McTominay hiding from the ball" affects our centerbacks barely touching the ball.

The aftermath of that match sums up the United fans to a tee. "We're being outplayed. The goalkeeper is lumping it forward. The defenders are being pressed so high that they have no time on the ball, so they launch it forward, etc. The team is struggling to string three passes together. So let's blame one player and make it all his fault".

It's fans like yourself who are arbitrarily blaming individual players when it's abundantly clear that the team is the issue. The coaching is the other issue. Crystal Palace knew their jobs more than our players do.

All this "blame, rinse and repeat" stuff is such a waste of time. How many of the same faces on this thread have repeated themselves? Tons. Yes. We get it. X thinks McTominay "hides". X thinks McTominay can't plass. Etc.

What's the point of the Groundhog day routine? What'll it achieve? Nothing. Absolutely bugger all.

 

[Chripper]

I concur, as I have said before, McTominay is one of the most limited passer in the premier league in terms of variety of pass.
He basically can only perform two kinds of passes using his right foot with average accuracy:
1. standard inside of the foot pass with the ball stuck on the ground
2. kicking the ball with toe/top of the foot for 30-40 yards aerial passes.

That's it.

- He can't cross (it is BS to say a midfielder doesn't need to cross since Keane, Scholes, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Carrick, or even Cleverley, Gibson, OShea whipped in good crosses from time to time)

- He can't pass diagonal ball
(which even Fred could do it at 00:55, can you recall McTominay ever made a pass like that?)


- He can't pass with his left foot

- He can't do any back heel flicks

- He can't do one touch passes

- He can't pass with his outside of foot
see 00:52
(you can't recall McTominay ever made a pass like that)

- He can't make any lob passes or chip passes
see 00:44
(you can't recall McTominay ever made a pass like that)

- He can't apply curves in his long passes (which even Maguire could do it from time to time)

- He can't make any passes 50+ yards. Hence we have one less source for cross field passes.

He is so predictable and easy to defend against.

Get off the fence, do you rate Scott McTominay or not?

 

[roonster09]

It may sound like I'm sticking up for McTominay, but I'm not.

I understand why United fans want him away from the midfield, because as a Scientist fan, I don't want him anywhere near the Scotland midfield.

I'm just hoping that ETH can bring something more of of him. Is it possible? Stranger things have happened.

Yeah, football is unpredictable. Many players had good success when manager changed position or made some changes in their games. Also Jose, Ole, Rangnick all played him, all of them + SAF rated him. So maybe we all are missing very obvious.

Whatever it is, hopefully ETH makes the right decisions and drops/sell any player he thinks is not good enough.

 

[Chripper]

Yeah, football is unpredictable. Many players had good success when manager changed position or made some changes in their games. Also Jose, Ole, Rangnick all played him, all of them + SAF rated him. So maybe we all are missing very obvious.

Whatever it is, hopefully ETH makes the right decisions and drops/sell any player he thinks is not good enough.

Exactly.

The Paul Lambert example that I gave above was extraordinary. Literally, everyone in Scotland thought that he'd return to Scotland with his tail between his legs.

No. He returned with a European Cup Winner's medal and Juventus trying desperately to sign him. They would have, but his kid was ill so they wanted to return to Scotland.

It just shows what a world class manager can do. And as you say, so many manager's played him and saw something in him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Typical Mctominay

 

[JeffFromHK]

Get off the fence

I think he should be the 4th or 5th choice midfielder in our squad. He is very average each at Premier league's standard, may not be good enough to start for a team ranked 10-12 in PL.

 

[Adnan]

He is not being picked because he is better than the other players we have -

he is being picked because Fred & Mctominay is still the best partnership we have playing with the least weaknesses.

Matic and Pogba can’t do it anymore. Fred can’t do it defensively deep.

We don’t just lack players - we lack partnerships, cohesion and team.

I completely agree.

I think the issue is that the likes of Matic and Pogba don't provide anywhere close to the intensity off the ball that the McFred (especially Fred) partnership provides. And that needs to be addressed with new recruits who are strong in both the offensive and defensive transitions.