Schürrle on his way to Chelsea?

Status
Not open for further replies.
The only time I've seen him play was in the last Euro's, he played from the left so are Chelsea just looking to add depth to the trio that play in behind the striker?
 
Oscar, Hazard, Mata, Schurlle and Marin. How do they fit all of them in? Safe to say Marin will hardly feature.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Oscar, Hazard, Mata, Schurlle and Marin. How do they fit all of them in? Safe to say Marin will hardly feature.
Click to expand...

They are finally grasping the idea of rotation. They understand they need depth to compete for all the titles. The usual 3 will be first choice, with the likes of Schurrle, Marin and Moses being back up.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Oscar, Hazard, Mata, Schurlle and Marin. How do they fit all of them in? Safe to say Marin will hardly feature.
Click to expand...

You forgot Moses. They have De Bruyne on the book too.

This will give them amazing depth but I wonder how will the next manager manage to give them game time that will keep them happy.

Send in your loan applications.
 
RDCR07 said:
They are finally grasping the idea of rotation. They understand they need depth to compete for all the titles. The usual 3 will be first choice, with the likes of Schurrle, Marin and Moses being back up.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that a player who has to be thinking of getting the German national team plans for next years World Cup would accept a back up role.

Shinjisan said:
You forgot Moses. They have De Bruyne on the book too.

This will give them amazing depth but I wonder how will the next manager manage to give them game time, that will keep them happy.

Send in your loan applications.
Click to expand...

Isn't De Bruyne going to Dortmund?
 
Devil may care said:
It's interesting that a player who has to be thinking of getting the German national team plans for next years World Cup would accept a back up role.
Click to expand...

Money talks. Plus he aint getting into that German side anytime soon. The likes of Reus, Götze, Muller, Ozil and Kroos are all ahead of him and they all play the AM roles whether its on the wing or centrally. He has a chance if they employ him as a striker.

And regarding de Bruyne, I doubt he is going to stay at Chelsea for long. He is good enough to start for them if they didnt get Oscar but I think maybe next season he will be off. He is young and improving and will want to play week in week out. I hope he goes to Dortmund since he has had a fantastic season in Germany. He will already be used to their game. Martinez, Benteke and one of de Bruyne or Eriksen and they will be set for next season Dortmund.
 
Marin will surely leave. Seemed to be hyped to high heaven as a kid but I've never seen anything special in the few games I've seen and I wouldn't be surprised if his performances at training suggested the same, hence his lack of playing time.
 
Schurrle, Mata, Oscar, Hazard all imminent world class players who can behind the 3 in a 4-2-3-1. Add to Mourinho coming in and a brand new world class striker set to come in (Cavani?) and they are surely the favourites for the title next year, especially with us being an unknown quantity with Moyes.
 
wonnie said:
Schurrle, Mata, Oscar, Hazard all imminent world class players who can behind the 3 in a 4-2-3-1. Add to Mourinho coming in and a brand new world class striker set to come in (Cavani?) and they are surely the favourites for the title next year, especially with us being an unknown quantity with Moyes.
Click to expand...

'Favourites' is too strong. We just won the league at a stroll, and Chelsea already had three of the four players you just mentioned. Schurrle, whilst good, is not quite Oscar/Hazard special, so essentially Mourinho is the big difference. It's fair to say that they have as good a shout as anyone, but to call them favourites based on a managerial change and this one transfer is knee-jerk.

EDIT: Missed the bit about adding an actual striker, which is a fair point. But they finished fourteen points behind us last season, and it would probably have been significantly more if City had forced us to keep our foot on the gas in those five dead rubbers at the end. Plus they've already spent £50mil on one striker, and then bought one of the form strikers in the league when that didn't work out - so buying a top striker clearly doesn't always solve that problem.
 
Brightonian said:
'Favourites' is too strong. We just won the league at a stroll, and Chelsea already had three of the four players you just mentioned. Schurrle, whilst good, is not quite Oscar/Hazard special, so essentially Mourinho is the big difference. It's fair to say that they have as good a shout as anyone, but to call them favourites based on a managerial change and this one transfer is knee-jerk.

EDIT: Missed the bit about adding an actual striker, which is a fair point. But they finished fourteen points behind us last season, and it would probably have been significantly more if City had forced us to keep our foot on the gas in those five dead rubbers at the end. Plus they've already spent £50mil on one striker, and then bought one of the form strikers in the league when that didn't work out - so buying a top striker clearly doesn't always solve that problem.
Click to expand...

Adding a top striker makes a huge difference, especially if they are at the level of Cavani. I don't even know how good Cavani is seeing as I've hardly seen any games of his, but judging by most his right up there with the likes of Falcao, RvP etc. so I don't think it's absurd to think he would transform their fortunes ... look how big a difference it made for us by signing a top, world class striker.

With Mourinho coming in, and 4 AMs too choose from (don't forget Hazard and Oscar have now had one year of being bedded into the PL which makes a huge difference to a lot of the foreign players as it takes them one year to adjust).

They are at least joint favourites for the title, in my eyes. If you don't think so fair enough, but there are so many positives for Chelsea that I've outlined in my post its hard for anyone to think they won't be favourites.
 
Schuerrle world class player? You must be joking.

Brightonian, the margin of a title win matters little for next season as there are so many changes. There are lot of opinions on here which hinge on ceteris peribus type of logic but I don't know how it works in football.

We won by huge margin THIS but we could finish third next season.
 
Platato said:
Schuerrle world class player? You must be joking.

Brightonian, the margin of a title win matters little for next season as there are so many changes. There are lot of opinions on here which hinge on ceteris peribus type of logic but I don't know how it works in football.

We won by huge margin THIS but we could finish third next season.
Click to expand...

The point of my post was that judging by this past season is just as valid as judging based on guesswork about how well transfers will turn out. Cavani is excellent, and we can make an educated guess that he'll solve Chelsea's forward problem. But we might also have made that guess about Torres or Ba. Similarly, Mourinho did very well with Chelsea last time he was here, but the circumstances were also very different - he got to ride the wave of the first of this generation of sugar-daddy clubs, taking everyone else in the league by surprise somewhat. He came to Real with an even better reputation than he has at the moment, and he's hardly been a storming success there, given how much money he's been able to spend.

It's not certain that our dominance last season will do much for us this season. But nor is it certain that Chelsea's changes this summer will automatically make them the strongest side. It's definitely knee-jerk to declare them favourites based on a couple of signings who haven't even laid foot on the turf in Stamford Bridge yet.
 
I certainly agree Brightonian. Good points. People like to analyse situations based on what they see on paper. Problem is, results aren't handed out on paper. I think the Mourinho factor plays a part in the predictions.
 
Brightonian said:
The point of my post was that judging by this past season is just as valid as judging based on guesswork about how well transfers will turn out. Cavani is excellent, and we can make an educated guess that he'll solve Chelsea's forward problem. But we might also have made that guess about Torres or Ba. Similarly, Mourinho did very well with Chelsea last time he was here, but the circumstances were also very different - he got to ride the wave of the first of this generation of sugar-daddy clubs, taking everyone else in the league by surprise somewhat. He came to Real with an even better reputation than he has at the moment, and he's hardly been a storming success there, given how much money he's been able to spend.

It's not certain that our dominance last season will do much for us this season. But nor is it certain that Chelsea's changes this summer will automatically make them the strongest side. It's definitely knee-jerk to declare them favourites based on a couple of signings who haven't even laid foot on the turf in Stamford Bridge yet.
Click to expand...
They should be favorites for even if they don't bring in Cavani. They bring in world class manager that on top of that has won the Premiership multiple times and did it with the same team. He knows some of the players, he knows the team.

Regardless what we do on the transfer market we lost our manager who has been our manager for 27 years and bring in a manager who has never been in contention for the title. We need time to rebuild and I pretty much doubt we will be favorites for the championship come next year.
 
Good on them for having the initiative to promote youth development within the c-

Oh wait...
 
Enigma_87 said:
They should be favorites for even if they don't bring in Cavani. They bring in world class manager that on top of that has won the Premiership multiple times and did it with the same team. He knows some of the players, he knows the team.

Regardless what we do on the transfer market we lost our manager who has been our manager for 27 years and bring in a manager who has never been in contention for the title. We need time to rebuild and I pretty much doubt we will be favorites for the championship come next year.
Click to expand...

Rebuild what? Yes, we lost Fergie and we've got Moyes, but there's nothing to 'rebuild'. The players that won the competition are still all there. The infrastructure of the club is the same. I know losing Fergie is a massive blow by any measure, but to give Chelsea an extra 14 or more points on us simply based on the assumption that Mourinho is going to work some kind of magic is just silly. They might do it, but there's just not enough evidence to call them 'favourites'. At the moment, I think us, Chelsea and, depending on what Pellegrini does, City are all in the mixer.

The only thing that is less of a 'sure thing' in football than that a new player will automatically bring a team success, is that a new manager will automatically bring a team success. It just doesn't work that way. Ask Madrid.
 
Brightonian said:
Rebuild what? Yes, we lost Fergie and we've got Moyes, but there's nothing to 'rebuild'. The players that won the competition are still all there. The infrastructure of the club is the same. I know losing Fergie is a massive blow by any measure, but to give Chelsea an extra 14 or more points on us simply based on the assumption that Mourinho is going to work some kind of magic is just silly. They might do it, but there's just not enough evidence to call them 'favourites'. At the moment, I think us, Chelsea and, depending on what Pellegrini does, City are all in the mixer.

The only thing that is less of a 'sure thing' in football than that a new player will automatically bring a team success, is that a new manager will automatically bring a team success. It just doesn't work that way. Ask Madrid.
Click to expand...

Not a fair comparison. Madrid managers aren't really managers, they are coaches. Particularly Madrid managers are puppets more than everything.
 
Brightonian said:
The point of my post was that judging by this past season is just as valid as judging based on guesswork about how well transfers will turn out. Cavani is excellent, and we can make an educated guess that he'll solve Chelsea's forward problem. But we might also have made that guess about Torres or Ba. Similarly, Mourinho did very well with Chelsea last time he was here, but the circumstances were also very different - he got to ride the wave of the first of this generation of sugar-daddy clubs, taking everyone else in the league by surprise somewhat. He came to Real with an even better reputation than he has at the moment, and he's hardly been a storming success there, given how much money he's been able to spend.

It's not certain that our dominance last season will do much for us this season. But nor is it certain that Chelsea's changes this summer will automatically make them the strongest side. It's definitely knee-jerk to declare them favourites based on a couple of signings who haven't even laid foot on the turf in Stamford Bridge yet.
Click to expand...


That's an insult to Cavani. He is right now as good as Torres at Liverpool. If Chelsea had signed the same player physically he would have been a great for them but he is now slow, sluggish and has lost confidence. I think Mourinho with his man management might be able to get more out of him, perhaps another 20 goal season but more goals in the league.

Schurrle good player adds depth to that front 3 he is also more comfortable wide than Oscar and better than Moses. I would not call anyone favourites though Mourinho will be the slight favourite in terms of cv the best manager in the league. This will be a very interesting season many things going on at ll the top clubs, not just here but Bayern, Real, PSG the emergence of Moncao. Plus all the big names are moving I can't wait for next season.
 
Not to worried about this signing really, it's a lot of money to spend on a squad player who more then likely won't ever even turn into a starter there considering the quality of mata, Oscar and hazard. He is well behind those 3. Personally I rate de Bruyne more as well, so it's a bit of a pointless signing.
However, if they manage to bring in cavani or someone like that, then I would have them as favourites because of Jose.
 
JaffyJoe said:
That's an insult to Cavani. He is right now as good as Torres at Liverpool. If Chelsea had signed the same player physically he would have been a great for them but he is now slow, sluggish and has lost confidence. I think Mourinho with his man management might be able to get more out of him, perhaps another 20 goal season but more goals in the league.
Click to expand...

Don't you see how that exactly backs up my point? Chelsea bought Torres from Liverpool, and they might be buying Cavani from Napoli. Cavani now is very good, just as Torres at Liverpool was very good. My point is that the Torres transfer shows that buying in a great player doesn't always bring success, especially not automatic success. So it's no insult to Cavani to say that his signing doesn't, if we're rational about it, magically make Chelsea favourites for the title. It's too knee-jerk - let's at least see him play for them for a month or two before we decide that they'll suddenly be 16 points better than last season.

JaffyJoe said:
I would not call anyone favourites though Mourinho will be the slight favourite in terms of cv the best manager in the league.
Click to expand...

Then we agree on the main point anyway.
 
Brightonian said:
Don't you see how that exactly backs up my point? Chelsea bought Torres from Liverpool, and they might be buying Cavani from Napoli. Cavani now is very good, just as Torres at Liverpool was very good. My point is that the Torres transfer shows that buying in a great player doesn't always bring success, especially not automatic success. So it's no insult to Cavani to say that his signing doesn't, if we're rational about it, magically make Chelsea favourites for the title. It's too knee-jerk - let's at least see him play for them for a month or two before we decide that they'll suddenly be 16 points better than last season.

Then we agree on the main point anyway.
Click to expand...
I just feel Torres was not the same player physically so it's a bad comparison. Cavani is on the level of a Van Persie, Ibrahimovic, Falcao these kind of players will improve any team they are on. Just Cavani will not cause a 16 point gain the need a better defence and a partner for Ramires but it is a great start. We do agree.
 
Brightonian said:
Rebuild what? Yes, we lost Fergie and we've got Moyes, but there's nothing to 'rebuild'. The players that won the competition are still all there. The infrastructure of the club is the same. I know losing Fergie is a massive blow by any measure, but to give Chelsea an extra 14 or more points on us simply based on the assumption that Mourinho is going to work some kind of magic is just silly. They might do it, but there's just not enough evidence to call them 'favourites'. At the moment, I think us, Chelsea and, depending on what Pellegrini does, City are all in the mixer.

The only thing that is less of a 'sure thing' in football than that a new player will automatically bring a team success, is that a new manager will automatically bring a team success. It just doesn't work that way. Ask Madrid.
Click to expand...

It's not giving them an extra 14. If you think Moyes can do exactly as well as SAF could with this team or better then his retirement could only be a positive thing, right? We'll most likely not do as well in the league next season. The league is not often won by that many points.

So that puts United in a hypothetical minus next season. Mourinho will improve them. Of course he will. They've got Oscar and Hazard with a season under their belt and a stronger squad overall next season. Plus they won't be in a managerial turmoil and Torres will likely be featured much less.

The evidence of calling them favorites is that their team is only won of two teams with a manager that has won the league so unless you want to throw Arsenal in the mix then I think it's fair to call them favorite. They'll be a 3/5 and we'll be 1/2. Won't be a bigger difference than that.
 
Brightonian said:
Rebuild what? Yes, we lost Fergie and we've got Moyes, but there's nothing to 'rebuild'. The players that won the competition are still all there. The infrastructure of the club is the same. I know losing Fergie is a massive blow by any measure, but to give Chelsea an extra 14 or more points on us simply based on the assumption that Mourinho is going to work some kind of magic is just silly. They might do it, but there's just not enough evidence to call them 'favourites'. At the moment, I think us, Chelsea and, depending on what Pellegrini does, City are all in the mixer.

The only thing that is less of a 'sure thing' in football than that a new player will automatically bring a team success, is that a new manager will automatically bring a team success. It just doesn't work that way. Ask Madrid.
Click to expand...


I think you are simplifying things though to decreases the issues we have. Fergie is probably the greatest in terms of performing above your material. If you judge every squad player-by-player you will see that we have our own problems to solve and we have as much issues as Chelsea/City.

We have our wingers/cm/Rooney issue to solve Chelsea has their defense and replacing Lampard and City already started solving both their narrow play-style and their CM.

Five players from our best eleven, Evra/Rio/Vidic/Carrick/RVP, are above 30 when the next season starts which is worrying as well.
 
I actually think City are favourites. They have made the better signings thus far.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
I actually think City are favourites. They have made the better signings thus far.
Click to expand...


I agree. I had Chelsea up there previous to any signings and for now I think City are the favorites. Of course this will change with every transfer.
 
Personally I think it's Chelsea's to lose now Moany has come home to roost. They have ridiculous young talent in Mata, Hazard, Oscar and now Schurlle - all four of which have their best years ahead of them.

Having said that I base this on the premise he will bring in a quality forward and another CM.
 
Brightonian said:
Don't you see how that exactly backs up my point? Chelsea bought Torres from Liverpool, and they might be buying Cavani from Napoli. Cavani now is very good, just as Torres at Liverpool was very good. My point is that the Torres transfer shows that buying in a great player doesn't always bring success, especially not automatic success. So it's no insult to Cavani to say that his signing doesn't, if we're rational about it, magically make Chelsea favourites for the title. It's too knee-jerk - let's at least see him play for them for a month or two before we decide that they'll suddenly be 16 points better than last season.



Then we agree on the main point anyway.
Click to expand...

But on the flip side there are instances where buying a world class player has brought instant success - RvP for us, Ibra for PSG, and say hypothetically we sign Wilshere/Martinez in CM, wouldn't we suddenly be pushed right up to the pole position as favourites for the league and CL? Or are you going to say no we can't be labelled as favourites because we haven't seen them play together yet, when most people (rightly so) are going to be creaming in their pants at the thought of a world class CM joining us.

Also, of course you don't know how things will actually turn out compared to looking at what is on paper. What is the point of this forum then? It's to speculate on things based on sound arguments. By all accounts it is a fair call to make but you just seem to be closed-minded about it.
 
Brightonian said:
Rebuild what? Yes, we lost Fergie and we've got Moyes, but there's nothing to 'rebuild'. The players that won the competition are still all there. The infrastructure of the club is the same. I know losing Fergie is a massive blow by any measure, but to give Chelsea an extra 14 or more points on us simply based on the assumption that Mourinho is going to work some kind of magic is just silly. They might do it, but there's just not enough evidence to call them 'favourites'. At the moment, I think us, Chelsea and, depending on what Pellegrini does, City are all in the mixer.

The only thing that is less of a 'sure thing' in football than that a new player will automatically bring a team success, is that a new manager will automatically bring a team success. It just doesn't work that way. Ask Madrid.
Click to expand...

I don't think that Madrid is a proper example. Mourinho won the title there as well, having in mind that Barca were the best team in the world at that time, and was right in the mix the season before.

To me a world class manager is much more important than the best player in the world. Even after we sold Ronaldo BPITW at the time we still managed to win the 2 titles in 2 years under Ferige. Yes there is time to rebuild and there will be something to rebuild - Moyes started with the backroom staff, Scholes is off, Rio may as well play his last season, same goes for Giggs, Nani most probably be off, Rooney future is uncertain - I think that should be taken into account.

Chelsea don't have to win 89 points to win the title next year - you never know if even 80 won't be enough like 3 seasons before. With us and City bringing in new managers as well Chelsea should be favorites. They got the core team but don't have the width in terms squad. Bringing in Schurrle, and others for backup would certainly improve them. And I agree with previously said - Hazard and Oscar have another season under their belt, and to add to that - Marin, De Bryine, Lukaku, Cesar also have matured. Only Terry and Lampard are older than 30 from their first teamers, so Mourinho will inherit a pretty good core. All they need to have a pretty solid squad is a world class forward, and bringing in Cavani will be exactly that(hopefully they won't and stick with Torres for another year).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.