There is quite a clear difference between calling someone he instead of they and using fisherthem instead of what he should have said in fisherperson.
Music Sam Smith (Singer)
- Thread starter Dan-Utd
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Fishing for attention this one is.
words matter. if you're a decent human being who doesn't want to contribute to prejudice, discrimination, even violence against marginalised groups, then you should respect what other people want to be referred to as. you don't misgender, and you don't use racist or homophobic slurs either. it's not difficult to not be a ****.
It's just kind of weird to start talking about "not being helpful" over a mild insult when you yourself are being so incredibly rude. You're not offering non-binary people even the most basic respect as human beings, and I hope no non-binary people ever will have to deal with you in real life.
In this case no. That’s not at all what I want. I reserve these attempts for cases that I don’t consider to be a lost cause. Which is the case with people who insist on deadnaming or the usage of wrong pronouns. People who deny others this basic form of decency are done for me. Especially if they fail to see the irony of posting on an internet forum under a name they gave themselves. Have never seen anyone from the deadname crowd insisting on finding out someone’s birthname so they could address others accordingly. Also I have found that they don’t mind calling married people differently than before. Or they seem to take no issue in calling artists by their artist name and so on.
I find these people to be unpleasant, egocentric, ignorant and vile.
What I’m willing to discuss openly, however, is the way we design language and speech to be inclusive and fair. Because I consider that to be a legitimate discussion. But people purposely calling someone like Smith a he or ridicule someone like Demi Lovato as „Themi“ are done for me. Someone who finds peoples search for acceptance, both from oneself and others a reason for ridicule, don’t deserve my attempts at an open discussion or debate. I know the kind. The same people who made my coming out so difficult. Who do so well to hide their bigotry and hatred behind seemingly valid reasons and logic, that happens to crumble the second you start second guessing it. You know, those who think it’s funny to put some letters in white text, so it looks like they used the wrong pronouns. It’s all in jest, all for fun, all for the laughter after all. No harm intended, obviously.
People are free to be rude if they want to be, I'm not trying to be rude but if that's how it came across to you well there's not much I can do about that. I think you are being a bit over the top.
I promise you I'm not being over the top.
Words matter yes but that is true for both sides here (if indeed there are even sides) - I couldn't care less what people do in their own private lives, nor do I care about what they wish to be known as, that's up to them. I just find it a bit counter productive for those who do have strong feelings on it telling those who may not feel the same way that they are basically scum and bad people to the point that some have even received death threats. It's not conducive to a healthy debate.
I think you are in terms of the assumptions you have already made about me - that is something I feel I am able to have an opinion on. The fact that you appear to have instantly jumped to the view that I'm somebody that you would 'hope no non-binary people ever will have to deal with' despite not really saying anything very controversial or particularly strong (that I can see anyway) is an example of what I'm saying.
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Of course you can have an opinion. I observe how you act, when you repeatedly and on purpose misgender people, and reply to someone politely correcting you with "bugger off", then it is very clear. You clearly don't give a shit, and you're coming off worse than Piers Morgan.
Well that's fair enough then. Though all I would say on that is that it's clear that many people don't think about this all that much so it's understandable that many will mistakenly use the 'wrong' pronoun at times, or indeed keep using it because they don't really understand (or care that much) because it's about somebody in the public eye who they don't know personally. I don't think these people should be seen as a lost cause. This is a process everybody is in and it will take many years and understanding on both sides for this to get to where presumably you would want things to be.
I'm worse than Piers Morgan now? You are making my point for me here.
Oh, I gladly discuss these matters with people who just made an honest mistake. Would be ridiculous not to. But these are obviously not the cases I mean.
He always is, fergies coat.
To be clear, it's not the pronoun use that I have an issue with - I honestly couldn't give a crap - it's the fact that even suggesting you might have a different view on this topic than those that feel very strongly about it opens you up to being told you are basically a horrible human being, evil, etc. I don't think that does those who feel strongly about the issue any favors at all and is more likely to turn those with no real strong opinions on the topic against you.
On this topic you're going further than Piers Morgan, surely you see that? Of course Morgan is a cnut on basically all topics, while my general impression of you is good, so in total there's no contest.
Although I'm glad your general impression of me is good, as is mine of you. I don't think I'm going further than Piers Morgan at all personally but as I haven't really looked at much of what he has had to say on the matter (I avoid much to do with him for obvious reasons) then perhaps I can't really judge.
Do you think any of that is projection?
Or that you see someone being told they're a terrible person because they are saying xyz, but you feel that you are also being called a terrible person simply because your unsure about x - despite no one actually doing that?
People get upset and angry and start calling names or calling people awful when they see consistent, deliberate rudeness or outright abuse... Sometimes even just when someone is clearly discussing in bad faith over and over.
I don't really feel that those who come in and make a genuine mistake or state they are confused/unsure about some aspect of this debate or respectfully suggest sam smith is a knob are being told they are horrible hateful human beings at all.
You entered the thread being positive toward SS, and were then corrected on their pronouns and you went straight to bugger off... Probably a jokey flippant response but rather than just say aw shit it's so easy to just type he by mistake you've doubled down on it?
My point which I'm trying to make - probably not very well - is that I came in here with no agenda at all, made a positive comment about a singer I happen to think is really talented but also that I think is trying a bit hard to be controversial, then get told i'm using the wrong pronoun in a pretty rude way (no explanation at all with it) - I respond in a flippant way because it annoyed me and now I'm worse than Piers Morgan to some (on this topic). I think that's way over the top and a bit ridiculous.
Are we at all considering that fisherthem was a tongue in cheek comment/joke?
Fisherperson, policeperson etc. Is fine and reasonable we all agree?
Fisherperson, policeperson etc. Is fine and reasonable we all agree?
Yeaaaahh, I'm not at all sure what you've said takes you beyond Piers with regard to this topic, though like you I would never read or know what that is.
You've again gotten the pronoun wrong there, which can happen and on a online message board isn't the most awful of sins but it is a very easy way of being respectful to a community that gets huge flak at the moment.
If it's a point of principle for you not to use those pronouns then fair enough but I personally would judge you in that case.
Do you think your reaction to being corrected was at all over the top?
Possibly yeah - I can get enraged over the most dumb things just as much as the next guy.Yeaaaahh, I'm not at all sure what you've said takes you beyond Piers with regard to this topic, though like you I would never read or know what that is.
You've again gotten the pronoun wrong there, which can happen and on a online message board isn't the most awful of sins but it is a very easy way of being respectful to a community that gets huge flak at the moment.
If it's a point of principle for you not to use those pronouns then fair enough but I personally would judge you in that case.
Do you think your reaction to being corrected was at all over the top?
Sam Smith is probably too thick to understand that the right term is fisherperson and not fisherthem. You can even see the cogs turning in the video trying to figure it out, bless them.
I thought it sounded quite sweet and is endearing.
I would imagine it's not a word that they had to think about or use before, so just used the first term that came to mind during the sentence. If they sat and thought about it, imagine they would use fisherperson in future (or maybe no now that it has riled so many up).
And all this Spiderthem and Batthem bollocks is ridiculously stupid. Those fictional characters have not requested to be addressed that way.
I completely disagree, you can see a coy look that says to me, this is a joke with a jibe.
I just want to note that I didn't compare you with Morgan after that happened. First you used the wrong pronoun, by mistake or on purpose or without thinking, then you responded dismissively to someone correcting you, then you made an active choice of continuing to misgender on purpose, several times. Morgan isn't doing that, though he's obviously alluding to it with the "they". On Musk's Twitter he's not risking a ban, and I doubt TalkTV would even consider firing him, yet even he can't bring himself to outright misgender.
I don't believe that I did though - I have tried very hard to not use any pronouns in any of my posts since then - any that may have appeared would have been by accident - I even amended my last post as I found a he in it. It's genuinely quite hard not to do it if you haven't really thought about it before.
Fisherperson/ fisherpeople are terms that, while not regularly used do exist.
Sam Smith wouldn't have received any attention for using either, hence why a new word was invented because heaven forbid we'd talk about someone or something else.
Sam Smith wouldn't have received any attention for using either, hence why a new word was invented because heaven forbid we'd talk about someone or something else.
Lyrical artist uses rhyming alternate word to make a funny point in a completely mild and in offensive morning tv interview SHOCKER
Piers can feck off. What were they supposed to say? Fisherperson? Fisherindividual?
Worth pointing out that one of the hosts said "fisherman" and Sam didn't fly off the handle like a melodramatic twat like a certain Mr Morgan has done every day of his miserable life.
You know what, there is no middle ground and feck off if anyone thinks there should be. Address someone the way they want to be addressed. It's none of their business and doesn't put them out in any tangible way to do it, so feck the feck off if anyone has a problem with it.
Piers: Sam Smith is an attention seeking nitwit!
Also Piers: *obsessively tweeting about him for four days straight*
Also Piers: *obsessively tweeting about him for four days straight*
Here's one example. It's one that stuck out so if I'm remembering wrong about there being others then I take that back, I'm not going to check.
Here you use 'his' in a comment specifically about pronouns, which on top of the rest makes it pretty reasonable to assume that it was on purpose, I think. If that's wrong, if it genuinly was a mistake, then I apologize for what I said.
100%. They’re having fun with it, quite obviously. People probably didn’t even watch the video
It was an error on my part - I'm genuinely not doing that on purpose - I don't care either way you understand but I don't really enjoy getting told I'm a prat over and over so obviously i'll be trying to avoid that. It is difficult to do it as I instinctively think of SS as a gay man - which I have no issue with at all, but that's how I view them - so I naturally will type he/his/him without even thinking - it's not me actively trying to piss anyone off. I'd rather not use any pronouns at all to be honest as it's clearly a bloody mine field so I'll try to do that from now on.
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I think when it first became more widspread I found the they/them pronouns a bit hard to understand. But that was over 10 years ago. I thought most would be used to it by now.
Anyone with kids / teenagers should be well versed.
I don't have a kid old enough and I'm almost 50. This is all new to me or at least, I've never paid it much attention because it's of absolute no interest or relevance to me in my day to day life. that may sound not great but I'm just being honest. I think some in here are not realising how many people feel exactly the same as I do. The last time I had any negative thoughts about somebody who was gay/bi/anything was probably when I was about 14 and a dumb kid. I just don't care what sexuality people are, it's of no interest to me nor do I feel like I need to know as it's irrelevant (to me anyway). I find the need to put a label on everybody a bit disconcerting.
You just need to get your head around it. Its not hard at all. i would forgive my 80 year old father, But no reason why it should be such a conundrum for yourself
Also you will almost certainly see and hear more as your kids get older, so get used to it.