Saha is an ungrateful, disloyal bastard

[DJSpaz]

Its relevant in that we defeated them twice when you're going on about how much better they are. And yes its a what have you done for me lately world and your assessment of Juve being better than us is bizarre and laughable. We're both Champions of our respective leagues and we beat them twice last year. The fact that they made the finals means feck all since they walked away with nothing.

It means that when it came to the crunch, they were able to play the right way to beat Madrid, which you couldnt. When it mattered, they stepped up a gear and got it right. They lost on penalties, which could've gone either way. You never got there and would've loved to swap places with them.

As i say, people remember the winners, and who beat who in the run-up means sweet FA in the bigger picture.

Shall i re-phrase it? Juve are better than you at winning the CL.

 

[Raoul]

they took their foot off the pedal

They way I see it, our keeper cost us a few goals. They were great strikes by Ronaldo and Figo, but a few of them were very saveable. I don't think anyone took their foot off the pedal.

 

[DJSpaz]

One final question, IYO how far will we & the Arse make it respectively.

You're capable of winning it, but i just dont think you will.

History tells us you probably WILL go further than Arsenal, so i'd go along with you there.

But by the same token, history tells us that Juve, Madrid and Milan will go further than you - but you wont have that, will you?

Move those goalposts Cal, you might hit the back of the net if you move them enough.

 

[Cal?]

It means that when it came to the crunch, they were able to play the right way to beat Madrid, which you couldnt. When it mattered, they stepped up a gear and got it right. They lost on penalties, which could've gone either way. You never got there and would've loved to swap places with them.

As i say, people remember the winners, and who beat who in the run-up means sweet FA in the bigger picture.

Shall i re-phrase it? Juve are better than you at winning the CL.

But Juve weren't the winner and for them being supposedly better at winning the CL, they have a grand total of TWO, the same number as us.

Are you talking out of your a**?

 

[MrMarcello]

But by making the point that it's 'a laugh', you're doing so on the basis that you think certain things about Liverpool - hence, turning the topic around.

To answer your question, yes we're lightyears away from winning the CL and no one would deny it. However, we all have our dominant eras, and we won 4 of them during ours. We havent won the league for 14 years or the European Cup for 20 as we've been at our lowest for decades - and yet, you're STILL playing catchup.

Scouse logic...now I see how my "laugh" comment turned this thread around.

Hmmm...so Liverpool are out their lowest point in decades right now. Sort of like how United were from the early 70s to about 1990...and during that time Liverpool won quite often. Now the tide has turned. Coincidence?

Considering how United have the best manager in the business, the finances to buy new players, the youth academy setup, the marketing revenues, and the worldwide fan base, I can see United easily surpassing Liverpool for league titles won by say 2009 and who knows about the Euro titles. This current crop wins one CL, they might just return for another, then another...then soon, United have 4 or more. What will be the Scousers 'clutching of straws' then?

We never hear the Scousers mention FA Cups won...although I am more impressed with league and Euro wins. If Liverpool had more FA Cup wins, they'd include that number too. Just a matter or time before United surpass Liverpool's 18-4 claim.

 

[DJSpaz]

But Juve weren't the winner and for them being supposedly better at winning the CL, they have a grand total of TWO, the same number as us.

Are you talking out of your a**?

My apologies.

They are better at being 'there or thereabouts' than you are.

 

[Cal?]

You're capable of winning it, but i just dont think you will.

History tells us you probably WILL go further than Arsenal, so i'd go along with you there.

But by the same token, history tells us that Juve, Madrid and Milan will go further than you - but you wont have that, will you?

Move those goalposts Cal, you might hit the back of the net if you move them enough.

History tells us that Real are likely to go further than us, but not Juve & Milan, unless your history consists of only one season.

 

[DJSpaz]

DJS, are you going to give us your prediction on United & the Arse?

I've told you what i think of Man Utd's chances, but i fail to see what need there is to bring marching into this topic of conversation?

 

[Raoul]

It means that when it came to the crunch, they were able to play the right way to beat Madrid, which you couldnt. When it mattered, they stepped up a gear and got it right. They lost on penalties, which could've gone either way. You never got there and would've loved to swap places with them.

As i say, people remember the winners, and who beat who in the run-up means sweet FA in the bigger picture.

Shall i re-phrase it? Juve are better than you at winning the CL.

Anyone with half a brain recognizes that United, the Italians and Real are all on a comparable level. We've all won the CL in the past decade. Do you have any idea how bitter and out of the loop your posts come across as. Please continue..

 

[Cal?]

I've told you what i think of Man Utd's chances, but i fail to see what need there is to bring marching into this topic of conversation?

 

[DJSpaz]

Scouse logic...now I see how my "laugh" comment turned this thread around.

Hmmm...so Liverpool are out their lowest point in decades right now. Sort of like how United were from the early 70s to about 1990...and during that time Liverpool won quite often. Now the tide has turned. Coincidence?

Considering how United have the best manager in the business, the finances to buy new players, the youth academy setup, the marketing revenues, and the worldwide fan base, I can see United easily surpassing Liverpool for league titles won by say 2009 and who knows about the Euro titles. This current crop wins one CL, they might just return for another, then another...then soon, United have 4 or more. What will be the Scousers 'clutching of straws' then?

We never hear the Scousers mention FA Cups won...although I am more impressed with league and Euro wins. If Liverpool had more FA Cup wins, they'd include that number too. Just a matter or time before United surpass Liverpool's 18-4 claim.

That all may or may not happen, but it's very easy to say, less easy to do.

Until it happens, you're still playing catchup. In the midst of your most successful era, it's all very easy to forget, dismiss and disrespect what's gone on before you, but until you can match or surpass it, it's foolhardy of you to treat it the way you do.

That is all.

 

[DJSpaz]

History tells us that Real are likely to go further than us, but not Juve & Milan, unless your history consists of only one season.

Really?

How many times in the last 10-15 years have you reached the final 4 or further, and how many times have Milan and Juve done it?

Genuine question - if you have indeed done so more than them over that period, i'll look daft - but have you?

 

[Cal?]

Anyone with half a brain recognizes that United, the Italians and Real are all on a comparable level. We've all won the CL in the past decade. Do you have any idea how bitter and out of the loop your posts come across as. Please continue..

They've all been reading Beginners Course to Football Prediction by Harry Kewell.

 

[MrMarcello]

Do you have any idea how bitter and out of the loop your posts come across as. Please continue..

It's jealousy and anger...soon, they will not have the "18-4" claim and they know it. It's inevitable. They hate it. They hate United. They hate their own club for it's failures. Heck, they may not even have room for the "26" claim by 2016.

 

[DJSpaz]

I'll be back tomorrow, as it's late now and i have work in 7 hours.

Good night one and all.

 

[giggzy]

18-4....

What's all that about then?

 

[Cal?]

Really?

How many times in the last 10-15 years have you reached the final 4 or further, and how many times have Milan and Juve done it?

Genuine question - if you have indeed done so more than them over that period, i'll look daft - but have you?

Go on, get us some stats, please...

 

[Gazza]

Sometimes people, especially those who have been starved of success recently, can overstate the importance of history

 

[Cal?]

I'll be back tomorrow, as it's late now and i have work in 7 hours.

Good night one and all.

Good night, read a few more chapters of the Harry Kewell's book to Football Prediction and sleep well.

 

[Jopub the Gooner]

It's jealousy and anger...soon, they will not have the "18-4" claim and they know it. It's inevitable. They hate it. They hate United. They hate their own club for it's failures. Heck, they may not even have room for the "26" claim by 2016.

" It's inevitable. "

That's a post and prediction worth keeping

"Anyone with half a brain recognizes that United, the Italians and Real are all on a comparable level. We've all won the CL in the past decade. .."

Sorry I must have less than half a brain cos in no way do you hold comparison to Real Madrid.

The most often used phrase on this forum is "past decade". In expanding your minds a little you might just admit there were a few decades before that where you were a laughing stock

Yeeer right........inevitable

 

[Cal?]

" It's inevitable. "

That's a post and prediction worth keeping

"Anyone with half a brain recognizes that United, the Italians and Real are all on a comparable level. We've all won the CL in the past decade. .."

Sorry I must have less than half a brain cos in no way do you hold comparison to Real Madrid.

The most often used phrase on this forum is "past decade". In expanding your minds a little you might just admit there were a few decades before that where you were a laughing stock

Yeeer right........inevitable

How exactly is having a CL-winning team in those "past few decades" going to help a team win the CL this season?

United, Real & Milan have all got plenty of players in their squad who have won the CL. Arsenal's best efforts in the CL in their entire history matches our worst in the last 8 years. Nough said.

It is indeed inevitable that United will beat the Scousers' records sooner or later, feck, even you lot should do it some time. The Scousers are nothing more than Spurs of the north nowadays.

 

[Gazza]

Experience is useful but not the be all and end all. For instance the players who won us the cup in 99 had very little experience. More than most, may be, but not of actually acheiving at the highest level. Steer clear of predictions, they just come back to bite you in the arse.

 

[Cal?]

Experience is useful but not the be all and end all. For instance the players who won us the cup in 99 had very little experience. More than most, may be, but not of actually acheiving at the highest level. Steer clear of predictions, they just come back to bite you in the arse.

I won't make any CL predictions apart from the annual capitulation of the Arse.

 

[devilish]

Do contracts and loyalty mean nothing to these players anymore?

Once more Man Utd upset a club due to the manner in which they approached the player; can Man Utd ever do things by the book and not piss off every club they deal with?

Bearing Man Utd's dodgy dealings in mind, both club and newcomer deserve each other. Man Utd will be signing a ludicrously over-rated player for a ludicrous price - yet another big money dud signed by Fergie. The fact he has no loyalty whatsoever to the team that made him what he is should worry some Mancs. A few years down the line, he could well turn his anger on Fergie and the Man Utd board for whatever reason.
A real model professional you Mancs have signed...

You’re really gullible aren’t you? Do you sincerely believed in this Al Fayed show of not wanting Saha to leave at any price? Do you sincerely believed that Fulham would refuse 12m (A capital in todays football), 6 times more than they have actually paid for a striker who could well end up into a one season wonder? Have you actually believed the Al Fayed show, a show meant to raise the price of Saha? Gullible is not the right word to describe you Redius, you are not gullible you are an idiot.

Now be sincere with us Redius. Do you believe that, let say, Liverpool, had negotiated with Cisse only two months ago? Do you believe that the same thing happened with Ziege, Kewell or let say Beckham or Campbell? Mind you, I don’t want to throw mud on any team but I just wanted to show that “Tapping” players is common in football as common as swearing in this forum.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Spot on.

seemingly oblivious to the fact that whenever they looked like they MIGHT get close, Madrid went down the other end and scored almost at will.

Brainless prick, Ronaldo's goals had little to do with Real's brilliance. They were shit on the day and even scored two on goals. We lost because the Phenomenon and THE best player on the planet destroyed us. His absence cost Real dear vs Juve. when he stepped on pitch he caused a goal. But why am I wastimg my time. I brick wall can never understand anything

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

The point about Duff is that Chelsea offered what his contract said MUST be accepted, hence Blackburn had nothing to moan about, given that THEY negotiated his new deal WITH the clause in it.

Saha didnt have such a clause.

Chelsea made lots of offers before they reached the fee Blackburn had set in Duff's contract. According to re_idiot, a club should not go back with an increased offer if a previous offer has been made.

Can't you read?

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

What do you deem as 'success' ?

Winning Championships and competing with the best in Europe

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

Grow up Cal....did i say Arsenal were contenders?

In any case, you of all people should realise by now that how many points you win the group by is insignificant when you come up against the big boys, who inevitably sometimes scrape through the group, before going on to lift the trophy.

You're nowhere near as good as Milan, Juve or Madrid this year, IMO.

Yeah, because especially AC Milan and Real Madrid have been so impressive this season

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

Shall i re-phrase it? Juve are better than you at winning the CL.

Is that why Juve have won it twice and United have won it twice?

 

[spinoza]

Do contracts and loyalty mean nothing to these players anymore?

Once more Man Utd upset a club due to the manner in which they approached the player; can Man Utd ever do things by the book and not piss off every club they deal with?

Bearing Man Utd's dodgy dealings in mind, both club and newcomer deserve each other. Man Utd will be signing a ludicrously over-rated player for a ludicrous price - yet another big money dud signed by Fergie. The fact he has no loyalty whatsoever to the team that made him what he is should worry some Mancs. A few years down the line, he could well turn his anger on Fergie and the Man Utd board for whatever reason.
A real model professional you Mancs have signed...

Utter shite.

 

[spinoza]

Obviously Man Utd did SOMETHING untoward that has pissed off both the Fulham manager and chairman. I doubt they're angry purely because Man Utd had the audacity to bid for their player.

Let's remember this isn't the first time Man Utd have pissed off another club. PSV have had to endure almost a yearly ritual in which Man Utd unsettle their players, resulting in critcism from their officials.
Now it's come to light that Man Utd's transfer of Klberson might have involved some illegal activity.
Man Utd's very approach to their transfer targets is rotten to the core, and it's time they showed some respect to other clubs by making legitimate approaches for their players, and conduct their deals in a fair manner.

More utter shite.

 

[spinoza]

From what we've been led to believe, Man Utd peppered Fulham with bids that did not match Fulham's estimate. Man Utd should have made ONE bid - the figure Fulham were asking. Other bids that fell short of Fulham's demands were designed to aggravate the player, who is a commodity of the selling club, to the extent that he’d end up asking for a transfer.

Once his mind was made up, Fulham had no choice but to sell Saha for a fee dictated by Man Utd, and NOT them. They were held to ransom by Saha, who threatened to leave for free unless his demands were met. I'm fairly sure Man Utd were instructing Saha and told him to kick up a stink that would eventually lead to his cheap sale.

This illustrates not just Man Utd's unprofessional methods in transfer dealings, but complete disloyalty from the starry eyed twit that forced his club to sell him when they were against it.

As usual Redeus is making up shite in his head.

Man Utd should have made ONE bid - the figure Fulham were asking.

United have a right to spend their money as prudently as they can.

 

[peterstorey]

We laugh when we see you are unable to buy anybody, apart from Lemon . Rather have our buys than a fruit with slippery gloves.

What are you on about? Lehmann is proving to be an excellent buy at £1.2m for a proven international keeper (kept out of the side only by Kahn) who has conceded the least number of PL goals this season and (tempting fate) hasn't been to blame for any of the 14 we have let in.

 

[Suedesi]

On this Loyalty Thing:
Saha was no more disloyal to Fulham than they were to him. To quote the Guardian: "His employers valued him so highly that they could never have borne the thought of enjoying his talents all the way through to the close of his contract in 2006."

I think 95% of us would do the same in society, whether it is a better job, a better girlfriend etc.

On Saha's selection and purchase price:
I'm sure SAF has looked into a number of prospective players, analyzed them and opted for Saha and opted to pay the price he paid for Saha. I am not going to argue with his judgement.

On UTD's chances this year in CL:
I think they are pretty good. Before talking up Juve and Real, I am not even sure that they will beat Deportivo and Beyern respectively. I am well aware of Depor's fantastic midfield and I think Pandiani and Tristan will be a handful for Juve's underperforming defense. That tie is fifty fifty. On the other hand I would fancy the chances of Ballack and esp. Makaay with the likes of Pavon and Raul Bravo; that game looks like 40-60 to me.
I have said it before and I will repeat that Milan seem the best balanced team, and the one with the greatest chances for retaining the league.
Having said that, the chances of United, Arsenal and Chelsea in that order are pretty good.

 

[Wibble]

From what we've been led to believe, Man Utd peppered Fulham with bids that did not match Fulham's estimate. Man Utd should have made ONE bid - the figure Fulham were asking. Other bids that fell short of Fulham's demands were designed to aggravate the player, who is a commodity of the selling club, to the extent that he’d end up asking for a transfer.

Once his mind was made up, Fulham had no choice but to sell Saha for a fee dictated by Man Utd, and NOT them. They were held to ransom by Saha, who threatened to leave for free unless his demands were met. I'm fairly sure Man Utd were instructing Saha and told him to kick up a stink that would eventually lead to his cheap sale.

This illustrates not just Man Utd's unprofessional methods in transfer dealings, but complete disloyalty from the starry eyed twit that forced his club to sell him when they were against it.

United simply made legitimate bids for a player they wanted.

What a load of shit you spout. Fulham can still choose not to sell. They simply wanted as much dosh as possible so they cried a few crocodile tears as per fecking usual with a United target.

If you really believed the bollocks you are spouting you wouldn't last 5 minutes in any serious commercial field. However, your bleating about lack of business ethics is simply motivated by United envy.

Move on you moron.

 

[thoward]

I think Tim would have stopped 2 of those Ronaldo shots. Didn't they only get 4 or 5 shots on target to score 3 that night?

Yeah I think that was the case. Utd had 21 shots in the 2nd leg as well and could easily have scored 8 or 9.

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

Sorry I must have less than half a brain

No shit Sherlock...

 

[Suedesi]

On the last yaer's Real-UTD tie: Real was clearly the better team. End of.

 

[thoward]

On the last yaer's Real-UTD tie: Real was clearly the better team. End of.

That is your opinion but United had more chances over the two legs. Its true to say Real played prettier passing football but another factor was the form of the respective keepers and clinical finishing from Real.

 

[MrMarcello]

Good article here.

Life after Saha