Ryan Gravenberch | signs for Liverpool
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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Although we have bought three players from the Dutch league since Ten Hag rocked up.
Wasn’t sure myself when I read this!I'm not proud of myself how long it took me to figure out what you meant here. Had to read it about 10 times, originally thought it was about a movie called High Jack that he tried to show him
So how good is this guy and what type of midfielder is he? Should we be in for him and surely we would have to favourites given ETH brought his through at Ajax?
will hate to see him go to Pool
We should try to sign midfielders who possess some of these qualities (at a very high level)...
- The ability to consistently orchestrate a game through visionary passing (like Eriksen, when he has time and space on the ball).
- Far-reaching influence in terms of offensive production and tangible output (especially in consequential matches).
- Someone who is impossible to dispossess as a ball-carrier, and can consistently challenge the opposition's organization.
- Great intensity for 90+ minutes, week in and week out — as well as tactical intelligence and discipline. 100% should be a given.
Thanks for providing such a comprehensive breakdown of the player.
Sounds a bit like Sabitzer then? I.e., can fulfill various roles, pretty decent at all of them, great for back-up, but not the sort of current/future starter that United is supposed to be looking for?
Linked now by Santi Aouna who broke the Weghorst news, in addition to a good few other sources.
Good player at Ajax. Out of favour for Bayern. Ex Ajax which surely puts us in a decent spot for competing for him.
Him or Sabitzer?
Why is he struggling at Bayern?
I know he's still young but hasn't his star faded significantly over the last couple of seasons? Think I'd rather have the Brighton mids.
What are we?
A home for Bayern rejects?
A home for Bayern rejects?
Goretzka and Kimmich ahead of him. Sabitzer was too. Hard for all but the best to get in ahead of that.
He plays very little.
I think he's worth taking a punt on.
Would Bayern sell him, or would they just want to loan him out?
In a world where FdJ wants to stay at Barca, and we need to drop the big bucks on a forward, i’d imagine Gravenberch would be a good fit for the kind of midfielder we would be recruiting this summer.
I'm fairly unimpressed by Gravenberch if I'm honest. He has a little bit of everything and is especially good at dribbling. But he is also wildly inconsistent, fades in and out of games and doesn't strike me as having the absolute desire to make it at the top level. His last season at Ajax, he was definitely not amongst the top performers and I think the only reason Bayern took a punt at him was because he was highly rated as a teenager and had only 1 year left on his contract. Doesn't surprise me at all that he is nowhere near the Bayern starting XI. Hope I'm wrong, as the Dutch national side desperately needs another top midfielder after Frenkie, but I just don't see it.
MAybe @BrilliantOrange or @dutchred can elaborate on him
MAybe @BrilliantOrange or @dutchred can elaborate on him
He isn't that good. I remember he was very highly rated as a teenager, but never really kicked on. Ended up being sold for pennies.
Brilliant Orange is in a much better position to answer this than I. On his last seson at Ajax before Xmas he was ill but after Xmas hew was probably our best player
I think he should take one step backward to hopefully take two steps forward, and go to a club where he can start every week (with the leeway to establish himself as a genuine difference-maker, one of the “stars of the show”). He's still less than 21 years old with an eclectic skill set and a bit-part role is unlikely to be positive for his individual development at this stage of career (considering his growth in the last year at Ajax was so-so and he has struggled to get meaningful minutes at Bayern). Milinković-Savić is a good parallel (again), as he fine-tuned his game at Lazio — and alongside Luis Alberto, reached a level that was good enough to join a bigger club by 2018 (that move never transpired because of lots of reasons (some of which were out of the player's control), but Gravenberch's situation could be different once he's sufficiently ironed out some of the rectifiable chinks in his armory).
He's only 20 years old??
He was a first teamer. He left because he had a year left on his contract.
He might still be rubbish though but not for the reasons you are saying.
18m is still ridiculously cheap. Clearly his stock had dropped.
He barely gets a look in for Bayern. We should be aiming higher.
Bayern refused to go higher and he refused to go anywhere else. They wanted a lot more and I’m sure if he was open to a move to us he would have gone for near £30m.
It is quite difficult for him to get playing time for us. So the conditions are far from good for him. At the same time, whenever he played he failed to make an impression. It is difficult to argue that he should get more playing time, because when he does, he is mostly without impact. There have also been reports that he lacks the will or drive to put in the necessary work.
I am skeptical about him. But would not rule out that another club could get more out of him.
I am skeptical about him. But would not rule out that another club could get more out of him.
On the one hand it could be a shrewd buy. On the other I’m still burned by Van De Beek, and wondering if their circumstances made them appear better than they really are.
Some players definitely suit a system/league.
From the YT vids (which I know doesn’t tell everything about a player) he looks a decent dribbler but his general touch and other elements of his game seem lacking, or at least inconsistent.
Don’t think he’s the answer unfortunately, let Liverpool have him.
That's been said about Sabitzer, too, but he looks decent enough.
@Invictus provided a lot of detail on his perspective on Gravenberch in the other thread: [edit: I see the threads have been merged, so now these posts are simply located just above on this page]
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While it COULD be a shrewd move if ETH thinks he can light a fire under him, but as mentioned earlier I'm not sure the profile is quite worth it. Might be one of those where we really pursue after the outcome of some of our other targets is decided.
Jans Riha, who is a football scout on twitter had an insightful thread about him through a Liverpool lens which I thought was useful but its private so I can't link it directly so I'll copy it in.
"My two cents re: Gravenberch potentially coming to LFC. While €30m can seem like a "low" risk, it isn't purely down to him being on roughly €170k/w, makes him unmovable if he doesn't make it there. You are putting him near your top earners on base contract at 20yo as well.
Arguing his age as an advantage point doesn't really work when two different managers don't trust him and he hasn't showed enough potential in a proper league to warrant that kind of fee or wages. It isn't consistent with thorough and long-term planning, just coach / opportunity.
I'm personally a huge believer in needing to buy players that come to you to make a step up - not buying them in a down season; this usually means injury issues / lack of form or them being shot off confidence. "Impossible" task getting those players started under pressure.
Another factor is that modern football is moving to a different sphere in terms of what's needed from midfielders - if you want to be dominant team in possession, having a player whose main strength is dribbling / ball carrying isn't remotely /that/ important.
It's just a gamble on a player a certain member of the coaching staff likes and has backing by certain members of the scouting department. This shows that LFC are truly on the road like any other club - "try to get good/talented players without any plan and see if it works".
"My two cents re: Gravenberch potentially coming to LFC. While €30m can seem like a "low" risk, it isn't purely down to him being on roughly €170k/w, makes him unmovable if he doesn't make it there. You are putting him near your top earners on base contract at 20yo as well.
Arguing his age as an advantage point doesn't really work when two different managers don't trust him and he hasn't showed enough potential in a proper league to warrant that kind of fee or wages. It isn't consistent with thorough and long-term planning, just coach / opportunity.
I'm personally a huge believer in needing to buy players that come to you to make a step up - not buying them in a down season; this usually means injury issues / lack of form or them being shot off confidence. "Impossible" task getting those players started under pressure.
Another factor is that modern football is moving to a different sphere in terms of what's needed from midfielders - if you want to be dominant team in possession, having a player whose main strength is dribbling / ball carrying isn't remotely /that/ important.
It's just a gamble on a player a certain member of the coaching staff likes and has backing by certain members of the scouting department. This shows that LFC are truly on the road like any other club - "try to get good/talented players without any plan and see if it works".
Madrid's and Juventus' pensioners to Bayern's rejects. It becomes harder to swallow.
Yes to a degree, and when you consider he was behind Sabitzer in the pecking order at Bayern and we don't seem to be overly keen on Sabitzer as anything other than a stopgap, it begs the question why would we want this guy? I can imagine him going to Pool and having a similar trajectory to Keita, squad player on too big a wage that they cannot get rid of until his contract expires, probably followed by a return to Ajax for the rest of his career.
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