i would rather Mac Allister.
Ryan Gravenberch | signs for Liverpool
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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He needs to play in the Championship
I'm only surprised he didn't work Harry Maguire into the conversation.
Guess you don't want Sabitzer either then?
Was struggling at Ajax in his last season, not good enough for Bayern, the only reason peoppe want to sign him is because he was good on Football Manager. Hard pass.
While he maybe cheap and very young for us to take a punt, I am worried with the scope of our transfers targets. Someone unique like FdJ is understandable, but for someone with a more common profile, it's a concern. The majority is mostly players ETH know well enough with Dutch league background. Where is our Football Director, and the recruitment team?
If we have room for developing a semi ready CM, then find the next Caicedo elsewhere and to clear about the pathway to be our first teamer.
If we have room for developing a semi ready CM, then find the next Caicedo elsewhere and to clear about the pathway to be our first teamer.
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If the price was reasonable then I'm all for it but only as long as we sign another starting 8 and back up to Cas. The viewpoint being here that Eriksen can then be a back up to Bruno. I'd like us to make 2 signings for CM, when ideally we need 3, but I worry he would be one of the 2 when he isn't what we need right now. If he could be bought as the 3rd CM signing then it could be an amazing piece of business in the long run if the price is decent.
Him, Lavia and a FDJ type starter would be the dream but I fear it's too much to expect considering we are desperately in need of a CF, CB and GK and, of slightly lesser importance, a new RB.
Him, Lavia and a FDJ type starter would be the dream but I fear it's too much to expect considering we are desperately in need of a CF, CB and GK and, of slightly lesser importance, a new RB.
I trust Ten Hag's rating of CMs, so if the summer is VDB and McTominay out and Gravenberch and a 15-20M backup #6 in that sounds good to me.
Think fans have some things wrong when judging CM's. At Ajax, none of his midfielders were really playmakers. Look at Brighton, neither Caceido or McAllister are playmakers.
Currently at United, outside of Bruno, our starting midfield lacks legs. The issue we have currently is matching the energy of Arsenal and City I'm big games ( and they have more decisive attackers).
Do we have issues bringing the ball out of the back when we play with Fred/Mctominay/Sabitzer. Yes. However, that is not because we need a metronome, but rather a result of how horrible they are on the ball and in regard to positional awareness compared to their contemporaries. Liverpool ran through teams before Thiago came in.
Our issues in midfield are mixture of needing a energy next to Bruno and Casemiro, and the lack of depth behind Casemiro's position. If Gravenbach can come at the right price, we would have money to spend on a back up 6.
I'm saying this to say, even of this isn't the deal, players like this CAN work in our team and HAS worked for ETH before. Player like McAllister and Jacob Ramsey shouldn't be dismissed.
Currently at United, outside of Bruno, our starting midfield lacks legs. The issue we have currently is matching the energy of Arsenal and City I'm big games ( and they have more decisive attackers).
Do we have issues bringing the ball out of the back when we play with Fred/Mctominay/Sabitzer. Yes. However, that is not because we need a metronome, but rather a result of how horrible they are on the ball and in regard to positional awareness compared to their contemporaries. Liverpool ran through teams before Thiago came in.
Our issues in midfield are mixture of needing a energy next to Bruno and Casemiro, and the lack of depth behind Casemiro's position. If Gravenbach can come at the right price, we would have money to spend on a back up 6.
I'm saying this to say, even of this isn't the deal, players like this CAN work in our team and HAS worked for ETH before. Player like McAllister and Jacob Ramsey shouldn't be dismissed.
The new Frenkie?
He hasn’t developed enough for me to say that we should be adding him ahead of Mainoo. There isn’t that much between them in age and Grav still needs development too so why not just develop Mainoo? People are so transfer obsessed but I don’t see this one as necessary.
Gravenberch was miles ahead in his development when playing for Ajax. I like Mainoo but he’s another year or 2 off being a first team player, if he makes it at all.
As much as I loved watching Ten Hag's Ajax, I'm finding it a bit underwhelming that we are just being linked with all his old players. I'd like us to build a new team and not an Ajax transplant.
If Bayern do sell him I'd back us to beat any club to his signature
id rather we got both and finally sold fred and mctominay
Sell Fred and McTominay and bring in Gravenberch and Lavia.
And how many years is Gravenberch off from being a first team United player? If he isn’t ready to do that now, and he also may never be, what is his advantage over Mainoo?
Gravenberch is overrated. I'd much prefer us to develop Mainoo.
Gravenberch is more established at Ajax, but it's unknown whether his level would transit well to PL and being that ahead from Mainoo at our club. Some players from club academy can break through and shoot up the rank like Garnacho, Rashford, you know who... where as even pro like Fred, DvB may take time to adapt and in case of DVB never quite establish himself here. Not saying that Mainoo would certainly break through soon, but the little he's had with first team the maturity of his game stands out.
Gravenberch is not in wonderkid category, where you just get him to develop him yourself. He has been struggling for minutes at Bayern (under 800 minutes). Even after Sabitzer'd left in January, Gravenberch still has distance to catch up to Sabitzer's, and at the rate he's going, highly unlikely he would get reach the amount (over 1000 minutes).Gravenberch looks like he's found out at this level, needs to take a level down to continue his development; while we're supposed to push for that next level this coming season (the same level as Bayern).
The point being, it's not wise to add a player without without insane potential that requires a lot of development work. This may block pathway to first team for players from the academy. Players from our academy may not be world beater, but it's still better if some of them become first team squad player, than wasting resources like this chasing our own tail.
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Haven't seen much of him but from all the talk he seems highly rated. Anyone have a highlights package?
Curious to know what he would cost as well, given Bayern seem very reluctant to sell.
Curious to know what he would cost as well, given Bayern seem very reluctant to sell.
With Arsenal, Liverpool, and Brighton, their wide attacks are somehow creative (that include their striker/false 9 as well), thus they can get away with two non-creative CM. Rashford and Antony are not. Then our creative problem would be exacerbate if our future striker is not creative either.
In your analogy, it means we should be looking for Kane or Kolo Muani. That makes sense.
There's a part of me hoping that Amad can come in and challenge Antony. I think he's a potentially creative force on the flanks.
To your point about our wingers, I think we are learning that Antony is a bit different to what we expected. I was expecting a somewhat similar player to Di Maria. My suspicion is that he would make a really good wide forward and as a team we are slowly learning this. He seems to make good runs, he has decent shooting ability and good balance on the ball. His biggest weakness is beating his man one on one, but being a wide forward as opposed to a winger will reduce the chances that he is put in those one on one situations (which he is improving on).
We moan about not making Brighton type signings. This would pretty much be it. Young, very talented. Just lost his way, but also might be a good thing as I doubt he’ll be costing anything more than £35m.
Unless Brighton spunked £35m on a player from one of Europe's best sides, I really fail to see how this is a Brighton type signing in any shape or form. Brighton sign high potential players from low profile leagues for peanuts, before they become established names. Neither Ajax, nor Bayern are low profile and that money is anything but peanuts.
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He's not Brighton type signings, unless he's on his final year of his contract again like last summer. If he cost 35mil then we're doing it wrong. He would cost the same as what Everton paid for Onana at the same age. And Onana was highly regarded by his own performance at Lille, whereas Gravenberch is a marked up product by the clubs he played for.
I can understand that it's tough to break into the Bayern starting XI and not making it doesn't mean you're a bad player and all, but would he manage to break into the starting XI here? Because he allegedly wants to leave Bayern for more first team football.
Is he good enough to be a starting XI a player here? Will he dislodge Eriksen?
He has made only 4 starts for Bayern in 8 months there. One in the first round of the cup against a team several divisions below. Two starts in the CL, one against Victoria Plzen and one in the last game of the group stage after Bayern had already qualified as first. He has only made one start in the Bundesliga and he got hauled off at half time. He has fewer minutes in the league for Bayern than Elanga has for us. That sounds like a player that not only is not a starter there, but the coaches marked him as one who can’t meaningfully contribute yet and isn’t even in contention for a starting spot. He also failed to get into the Dutch squad for the World Cup.
It sounds a lot to me like he might not be ready to be a starter at this level and he will either have to bide his time, or go to a slightly lower profile team and get more games there. He doesn't sound like the CM you build your midfield around at our level, not yet anyway.
Is he good enough to be a starting XI a player here? Will he dislodge Eriksen?
He has made only 4 starts for Bayern in 8 months there. One in the first round of the cup against a team several divisions below. Two starts in the CL, one against Victoria Plzen and one in the last game of the group stage after Bayern had already qualified as first. He has only made one start in the Bundesliga and he got hauled off at half time. He has fewer minutes in the league for Bayern than Elanga has for us. That sounds like a player that not only is not a starter there, but the coaches marked him as one who can’t meaningfully contribute yet and isn’t even in contention for a starting spot. He also failed to get into the Dutch squad for the World Cup.
It sounds a lot to me like he might not be ready to be a starter at this level and he will either have to bide his time, or go to a slightly lower profile team and get more games there. He doesn't sound like the CM you build your midfield around at our level, not yet anyway.
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It’s because you clearly didn’t get the key point I made and focused on Brighton and their very noticeable different level to us in this football ladder.
If ETH values him that’s enough for me. It would be nice for a change to get a reject from one club and see him turning into a proper player in our club…
Which is just an opinion piece. He had to do something to get to Bayern, yes he might just be lucky but it happens rarely.
My point is we aren’t set up to get a player from South America and give them minutes and the platform for them to develop like Caicedo and Enzo, not at this point.
But what we can do is take a chance on talented players who have been in an elite environment and give them a chance to prove themselves for a price tag that represents their failing.
Doesn’t mean it will work but occasionally they do. Just like Patrick Vieira who had 2 appearances for AC Milan before moving to Arsenal.
Get Kane, or get Osinhem and have two wingers (Ribery - Robben lite). Then we can get away with two defensive oriented CMs.
City has Grealish and Bernardo to flank Haaland. It's hard to compete with that even we spend 150m on Osinhem to have Rashford - Osinhem - Antony line-up. Most likely, even with any striker there.
I'm not sure why you think this. For example, if we had signed Enzo and Caicedo in their last years at their South American clubs and brought them into this current team, they would have been seen as absolute masterstrokes and while they would likely start as back up to Eriksen, I think they both would have broken into the team by this stage of the season regardless of them not having done their stints at Benfica/Belgium. I think the same is possibly true for players currently in South America like Andre Trinidade or Matheus Martinelli or a striking option like Matheus Franca.
They wouldn’t have played. Caicedo came to Brighton and went out on loan. If he went out on loan what makes you think Ole would have played him at United.
Enzo was more advanced but even still he needed his Benfica move as he would not of started here either.
Of course I focused on Brighton, you said it was Brighton-type transfer? What was even your key point?
Because Brighton had a good midfield while Fred and McTominay were being humiliated around pitches across the country.
It doesn't matter how we feel about Fred and McTominay. Ole absolutely loved them and there is no way he would have played Caicedo over either of them.
You don't just replace experienced Premier League midfielders with a 19 year old with 25 matches in the Ecuadorian league.
Thank you for the common sense. It like we have 8 year olds responding at times. I blatantly said he went to Brighton and they sent him out on loan.
C'mon he played those two due to the complete lack of options. Caicedo wasn't just any 19 year old either. At the time of his signing, he had already dominated international games against Argentina and Brazil and Tim Vickery was saying even at that stage that he was looking like he had the potential to be Ecuador's greatest ever player.
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