Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

harms said:
Do you have any info on that?

I assume that you don't mean that there are Chinese nationals but active Chinese military personnel? Otherwise it's a WWIII already — just from what I can recall there are Nepali, Indian, Mongolian, Kygryz, Kazakh etc. nationals fighting for Russia and there are many volunteers, including from NATO states and, well, even Russia itself, fighting for Ukraine.

Pardon me for being a fact-checking nerd. I just hate half-truth statements that get thrown in as bonus arguments and later get imbedded into the discourse because no one bothers to question them. China has its role in the conflict, far from being neutral — mostly to support Russia economically, help it to bypass Western sanctions and smuggle in technological stuff that can be repurposed in military capacity. It doesn't send its troops to Ukraine (even though I'm sure there are some Chinese citizens fighting for Russia, they've been openly inviting anyone willing, Russian citizen or not, to step into the meat grinder).
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I stopped myself short of writing "Chinese active/contract soldiers" to give myself some wriggle room in that statement! There is no proof of that as far as I know, just assumptions from some bloggers, but it is good clickbait of course.

A search for 'chinese soldier russia' on x will bring up plenty footage of Chinese 'mercenaries' soldiering in Russia. Commentators make statements that China is likely sending personnel to report back on the reality on the front and gain experience, but if there's nothing legally stopping them its likely some will always go for the offer of money, assuming they can get paid in Yuan. There's also a few Chinese that have joined Ukraine's foreign legion, though no one is doing that for pay.

I don't think its likely China will ever play an active role in this war, I expect they are more looking at what's to gain from Russia's downfall. We're talking European readiness though, excluding US help. I don't know to what level China has to be factored into their decision making but... Somewhat?

One example below. Also the video blog from this "former PLA" soldier was accused of being a report back to the PLA.

 


Trump's policies having a devastating effect on Ukranian's lives. Hundreds killed not just soldiers but innocent civilians too. Doesn't any other country have similar technology and equipment and info to step in and offer help?

The less involved the US is in anything outside its own borders the better. They just cannot be relied upon anymore.
 
B. Munich said:
Germany is discussing to pull out of the F35 deal. I hope we will do it.
What's the purpose to spend billions on weapon system that can't be operated without the US and the US could just deactivate if they wanted.

Hopefully more countries following. The will be a big blow for the US military complex.
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That would be massive. It might actually really hurt Trump. The F35 sucks anyways, right? Pull out.
 
NLunited said:
That would be massive. It might actually really hurt Trump. The F35 sucks anyways, right? Pull out.
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Its a notoriously expensive plane, and one that would be hard for the Germans to use effectively without some degree of US hardware and software tech support.
 
langster said:


Trump's policies having a devastating effect on Ukranian's lives. Hundreds killed not just soldiers but innocent civilians too. Doesn't any other country have similar technology and equipment and info to step in and offer help?

The less involved the US is in anything outside its own borders the better. They just cannot be relied upon anymore.
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It takes time to transition. The sudden cut off without warning is the evil bit that Trump has to be held to account for.
 
Raoul said:
Its a notoriously expensive plane, and one that would be hard for the Germans to use effectively without some degree of US hardware and software tech support.
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It would be impossible, the UK has to pay Lockheed-Martin millions to be able to access the data that the UK F35's collect just be flying, you can bet that that something like this would apply to a lot of US kit
 
Red in STL said:
It would be impossible, the UK has to pay Lockheed-Martin millions to be able to access the data that the UK F35's collect just be flying, you can bet that that something like this would apply to a lot of US kit
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Agreed.

However, if Europe do start producing their own equivalents you'd think that would hit the US military industry hard despite the whole Trump saying that the EU aren't paying the US enough and aren't pulling their own weight none sense.
 
As well as vetoing Canada’s proposal to establish a task force to monitor for sanction breaches, the draft G-7 statement seen by Bloomberg News shows the US pushed to remove the word “sanctions,” as well as wording citing Russia’s “ability to maintain its war” in Ukraine by replacing it with “earn revenue.”
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Any potential buyer of US produced defense equipment better think twice now. If the draft dodger wakes up on the wrong side you might just find yourself without an working airforce.
 
the_cliff said:
Agreed.

However, if Europe do start producing their own equivalents you'd think that would hit the US military industry hard despite the whole Trump saying that the EU aren't paying the US enough and aren't pulling their own weight none sense.
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Europe does have the capabilities to do this, ultimately it comes down to cost and the economies of scale, the US sells their kit across the world, unless Europe can persuade some of those countries to ditch the US stuff it's gping to be a lot more expensive
 
Red in STL said:
Europe does have the capabilities to do this, ultimately it comes down to cost and the economies of scale, the US sells their kit across the world, unless Europe can persuade some of those countries to ditch the US stuff it's gping to be a lot more expensive
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I think the US are possibly doing the persuading all by themselves.
 
TwoSheds said:
I think the US are possibly doing the persuading all by themselves.
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Of course they are, that's why European militaries are full of US kit, but if that's to change then Europe has to persuade countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea and Qatar, Saudi etc to but less nUS and more Europe
 
Raoul said:
Its a notoriously expensive plane, and one that would be hard for the Germans to use effectively without some degree of US hardware and software tech support.
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The only reason we are buying the F-35 is to carry US nuclear bombs under NATO agreements. The only realistic enemy we would need to use nukes against is Russia.

Actually using the nukes needs US codes anyways. If we can't trust the US to authorize using these bombs against Russia we don't need the F-35.
 
stefan92 said:
The only reason we are buying the F-35 is to carry US nuclear bombs under NATO agreements. The only realistic enemy we would need to use nukes against is Russia.

Actually using the nukes needs US codes anyways. If we can't trust the US to authorize using these bombs against Russia we don't need the F-35.
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They can tell you that you will be authorized when you purchased under equivalent Biden and tell you get feck under equivalent trump when you really need it.

The problem of buying external kit nowadays is that i am sure they way through software to stop the use of the most modern equipement
 
Trump wants to see more than just a minerals deal to restart aid and intel to Ukraine
As U.S. and Ukrainian officials prepare to meet in Saudi Arabia this week, President Donald Trump has privately made clear to aides that a signed minerals deal between Washington and Kyiv won’t be enough to restart aid and intelligence sharing with the war-torn country, according an administration official and another U.S. official.
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he also wants to see a change in Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s attitude toward peace talks, the officials said, including a willingness to make concessions such as giving up territory to Russia. Trump also wants Zelenskyy to make some movement toward elections in Ukraine and possibly toward stepping down as his country’s leader, the officials said.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...als-deal-restart-aid-intel-ukraine-rcna195508
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
It's so wild seeing an American President handing Ukraine on a platter to Russia. No words for what Trump is doing.
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Yes indeed.
Not just handing it to Putin, but making sure Ukraine is never in a position to defend itself to any future Russia attacks.
 
stefan92 said:
The only reason we are buying the F-35 is to carry US nuclear bombs under NATO agreements. The only realistic enemy we would need to use nukes against is Russia.

Actually using the nukes needs US codes anyways. If we can't trust the US to authorize using these bombs against Russia we don't need the F-35.
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Exactly that.
One of the reasons why Germany was so keen to be part of the MRCA Tornado programme was to be free from US operational restrictions. That of course as well as the huge leap in technology acquisition. They did consider the F18 which is an excellent fighter, but chose F35 instead for the NATO nuclear role.
 
B. Munich said:
Germany is discussing to pull out of the F35 deal. I hope we will do it.
What's the purpose to spend billions on weapon system that can't be operated without the US and the US could just deactivate if they wanted.

Hopefully more countries following. The will be a big blow for the US military complex.
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I can't believe anyone would agree to such a deal in the first place. Even without political sabotage, what's the point of a weapons system that requires global connectivity just to operate normally? I don't know the details here but it does appear a bit strange that this is a necessity.
 
The Firestarter said:
I can't believe anyone would agree to such a deal in the first place. Even without political sabotage, what's the point of a weapons system that requires global connectivity just to operate normally? I don't know the details here but it does appear a bit strange that this is a necessity.
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it happens more often than you can imagine.

It's not and should be self-explanatory.
 
The Firestarter said:
Why? That brings in additional vector that such a system can be disabled / rendered useless, by enemy action
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The US has no intention of letting anyone who buys its military equipment "going rogue" (understand not toeing the line drawn by Washington) and using it as they see fit. The more reliant you are on particular weapon systems, the more dependent you are, and the easier to control (and more amenable) you become.

Also the US doesn't really need a "backdoor switch", it can simply refuse to sell you software upgrades or maintenance parts and you are fecked all the same.

I personally hope that Europe completely frees itself from all US armament systems in the coming decades.

Feck them.
 
That_Bloke said:
The US has no intention of letting anyone who buys its military equipment "going rogue" (understand not toeing the line drawn by Washington) and using it as they see fit. The more reliant you are on particular weapon systems, the more dependent you are, and the easier to control (and more amenable) you become.

Also the US doesn't really need a "backdoor switch", it can simply refuse to sell you software upgrades or maintenance parts and you are fecked all the same.

I personally hope that Europe completely frees itself from all US armament systems in the coming decades.

Feck them.
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I dont dispute the US reasoning, I am surprised anyone would want to buy a system on those terms.
 
B. Munich said:
Germany is discussing to pull out of the F35 deal. I hope we will do it.
What's the purpose to spend billions on weapon system that can't be operated without the US and the US could just deactivate if they wanted.

Hopefully more countries following. The will be a big blow for the US military complex.
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Very well said.
The primary reason UK ordered F35B was to operate from the aircraft carriers. Or was it to produce the aircraft carriers to operate F35B...
Anyway. I can see no clear reason to order any more F35. Instead we should cancel any more orders and instead order some more Typhoon jets which are made in the UK.

F35 is very expensive and high maintenance with the only potential advantage being stealth. If not Russia, what do we need so called stealth jets for anyway.
 
That_Bloke said:
The US has no intention of letting anyone who buys its military equipment "going rogue" (understand not toeing the line drawn by Washington) and using it as they see fit. The more reliant you are on particular weapon systems, the more dependent you are, and the easier to control (and more amenable) you become.

Also the US doesn't really need a "backdoor switch", it can simply refuse to sell you software upgrades or maintenance parts and you are fecked all the same.

I personally hope that Europe completely frees itself from all US armament systems in the coming decades.

Feck them.
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Yes indeed.
 
Buster15 said:
Very well said.
The primary reason UK ordered F35B was to operate from the aircraft carriers. Or was it to produce the aircraft carriers to operate F35B...
Anyway. I can see no clear reason to order any more F35. Instead we should cancel any more orders and instead order some more Typhoon jets which are made in the UK.

F35 is very expensive and high maintenance with the only potential advantage being stealth. If not Russia, what do we need so called stealth jets for anyway.
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To avoid getting shot down I suspect!

The UK should never have canned the Harrier, IMO that was a huge blunder, it should have been developed further and there would have never been a need to buy F35's
 
Red in STL said:
To avoid getting shot down I suspect!

The UK should never have canned the Harrier, IMO that was a huge blunder, it should have been developed further and there would have never been a need to buy F35's
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I think it is harsh to criticize anybody for not anticipating the current situation 10 years ago. It was uninaginable that the US would become so unreliable that you'd have to replace such weapond before Trump because you couldn't trust it to support you against Russia when shit gets serious. It's hard to excuse that Europe way so unprepared for his second term though..
 
The Firestarter said:
I dont dispute the US reasoning, I am surprised anyone would want to buy a system on those terms.
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Well, Europe persuaded itself that the day where the US would have different ideas about their partnership will never come. It was okay for them to be being servile vassals of the US' international will, because it suited them and they massively benefitted from it. Getting US weapons is a part of the deal.

The funniest thing is that Germany would've most certainly bought these F-35s if Biden or Harris was in the White House, even if these fighters were equipped with this "kill switch". We'd have most likely never heard about it.

Now the current mafia boss has a new vision of the future, the lower grade mobsters are feeling the heat and having second thoughts. Color me surprised.
 
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Red in STL said:
To avoid getting shot down I suspect!

The UK should never have canned the Harrier, IMO that was a huge blunder, it should have been developed further and there would have never been a need to buy F35's
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Shot down by who?
Don't disagree with you about Harrier. And even worse, retirement of Tornado.
 
Zehner said:
I think it is harsh to criticize anybody for not anticipating the current situation 10 years ago. It was uninaginable that the US would become so unreliable that you'd have to replace such weapond before Trump because you couldn't trust it to support you against Russia when shit gets serious. It's hard to excuse that Europe way so unprepared for his second term though..
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Indeed and nobody is.

But there's no getting away from the fact that the UK made some huge blunders in the last 20 years or so in regards to defence, the decision to build 2 carriers and then retire the only aircraft capable of flying off them is crazy IMO, why the UK needs such carriers is very questionable
 
Russian officials criticised for giving meat grinders to mothers of soldiers killed in Ukraine
Local officials from Russia’s ruling party have caused controversy by presenting mothers of soldiers killed in Ukraine with gifts of meat grinders, an appliance widely used to describe Russia’s brutal tactics on the frontline. The United Russia party in the northern Murmansk region posted photos on social media showing officials smiling as they visited bereaved mothers with gifts of flowers and boxed meat grinders for International Women’s Day on Saturday, which is widely celebrated in Russia.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ders-to-mothers-of-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine
 
Red in STL said:
Indeed and nobody is.

But there's no getting away from the fact that the UK made some huge blunders in the last 20 years or so in regards to defence, the decision to build 2 carriers and then retire the only aircraft capable of flying off them is crazy IMO, why the UK needs such carriers is very questionable
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So called Force Projection. In other words, something invented by the Royal Navy. The best analogy is The Emperor's New Clothes.
No one really knew what it meant but were too scared to ask.
 
Buster15 said:
Shot down by who?
Don't disagree with you about Harrier. And even worse, retirement of Tornado.
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Anyone can shoot down any aircraft they can detect, can't shoot it down if they don't know it's there

At least the Tornado had a sort of replacement in the Typhoon
 
Buster15 said:
So called Force Projection. In other words, something invented by the Royal Navy. The best analogy is The Emperor's New Clothes.
No one really knew what it meant but were too scared to ask.
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Yeah - with 2 carriers, only one of which would be at sea at any given time really makes sense, no idea to whom though!
 
VorZakone said:
"Say thank you". Rubio responds to Polish minister.

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Say thank you for paying market rate for a service.

And little Marco may want to look at the map and see who Poland already borders.

The sooner we get these fecks away from European affairs the better.
 
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