Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Droid_Repairs said:
Kinda. Putin is certainly making it that way by suppressing opposition. It's not like in China where there's literally no attempt at democracy, but in Russia democracy is becoming more and more of a facade over time. Not only with political opponents being persecuted but with ever harsher measures for political protestors and dissenting voices.

There are multiple parties in the Duma, although United Russia makes up 3/4 of the seats. The problem is that opposition is suppressed, in state media and elsewhere. This isn't especially new in Russia, but Putin has certainly strengthened his grip on power, and is surrounded by allies who can't and won't challenge him.
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I was of the impression that opposing parties were largely designed to be opposing parties. In the sense that some smart people wrote down what each party was supposed to do and represent.
 
TMDaines said:
Interesting thread that covers Russian army being made up of non-Russian ethnic people to make it more palatable:

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This was the most important bit imo. If the Ukrainians can create a green corridor for Russian troops to surrender and seek assylum (whether in Ukraine or another nearby country), then that's a game changer.
 
sun_tzu said:
unless you have a drone in the area giving life targeting info?
or as you say target the handover point
or more likley send in the rape squads and drop chemical weapons on kyiv till ukraine hand them over anyway as part of the denazification process
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A drone big enough to get to Western Ukraine will easily be detected and shot down.

Anti aircraft batteries have a significant signature itself so even when its operational Ukraine will need to keep them moving around or the Russians will quickly find them.
 
TMDaines said:
Just Putin’s war…

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There’s a nice video of people leaving en masse right after checking in with their superiors as those are all government workers that were ordered to come in.

Not that it means that they don’t, actively or passively, support the war :(
 
I was listening to someone on the radio who knows the Russian army stuff and was saying because they completely miscalculated the strength/will of the Ukrainian's - they literally sent their "Championship and League 1" equipment and left the "Premier League" stuff away which in hindsight was a mistake for them. Now they have to think about calling them out or find a way to end the war with out "losing"

Just thought it was interesting that they were so arrogant and didn't have a more suitable/close Plan B
 
Raoul said:
From Chinese state media. Not very favorable for Putin it seems.

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Nothing new there, Chinese news has been saying the same statements pretty much since the start. Peace and sovereignty should be respected.

Not as exciting as tweets about potential world war 3 though.
 
Bit of a contrarian post here.

I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.

edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:

 
Raoul said:
:lol:

"We never had issue with the Ukrainian people. I have many Ukrainian friends".
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I can't be racist, I have black friends. You can easily see where the gutter Republicans get their talking points.
 
11101 said:
Bit of a contrarian post here.

I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.

edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:

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Russia shouldn't have started by bombing civilian buildings, hospitals, schools, theatres. At this point most of the southern cities under siege have had their civilian populations removed be that from Russia killing them or them fleeing combat.

No point Ukraine taking the moral high ground against an enemy that will bomb anything and everything in their path.
 
Meanwhile in Russia the fascist march continues:



"Together with Andrei Turchak and other colleagues (Irina Pankina, Vasily Piskarev, Andrei Klishas), we prepared amendments to the Criminal Code and the Code on Administrative Offences, which expand the recently adopted norms on fakes about the use of the armed forces and for their public discrediting. We suggest bringing to responsibility for fakes (i.e. public dissemination of deliberately false information) not only about the army, but also about any government bodies, which act abroad in order to protect the interests of the RF and its citizens and to maintain the international peace and security. The same applies to the public discrediting of government agencies, or, to be more precise, the execution of their powers outside the country. These norms will affect not only those involved in the armed forces in Ukraine, but also the Rosgvardiya and the Ministry of Emergency Situations, who defend Russian interests abroad, regardless of whether they wear shoulder straps or not, must be protected from any provocation, lies, and "black hat". For example, our embassies, trade missions, and diplomatic missions."

Alexander Khinshtein is the deputy secretary of the United Russia party in the State Duma. Andrei Turchak is its secratary. It holds just under 3/4 of the Duma's seats (not that it matters).
 
11101 said:
Bit of a contrarian post here.

I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.

edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:

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Bit of a false equivalence there if you're comparing missile strikes into a city on apartment buildings vs. urban combat in a city.
 
11101 said:
Bit of a contrarian post here.

I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.

edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:

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I get what you mean, but I'm not really sure how you expect urban warfare to play out? Should they camp out in the streets or only stick to office buildings? Civilians interact with almost all parts of a city.
 
11101 said:
Bit of a contrarian post here.

I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.

edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:

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Isn't this exactly why it'll be hard for Russia to take the likes of Kyiv though. I think it's just the reality of urban warfare that Ukraine will use that advantage and Russia will end up firing on such buildings.

You'd hope the buildings are mainly evacuated but even if they are ill trained Russian soldiers will get nervous and fire on other residential buildings. In the same sense i wouldn't be surprised if they're using the humanitarian corridors for positioning either.
 
11101 said:
Bit of a contrarian post here.

I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.

edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:

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It’s as if Kyle Rittenhouse was a country. You can say that but then what the feck are they doing in the first place, trying to capture a foreign city?
 
I'm not defending the Russians in any way, just pointing out that if Ukrainian soldiers are using residential buildings as firing positions, poorly trained Russian soldiers with a nervous trigger finger will inevitably shoot at them and anything else that looks like it might contain hidden threats. It's a tactic that will contribute to civilian casualties.
 
nimic said:
Go to a pro-war rally if my country is the aggressor? No, of course I wouldn't. By being there you're showing support.
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By the looks of it most of them have not been told why they are there. Kind of like their army in Ukraine.
 
11101 said:
I'm not defending the Russians in any way, just pointing out that if Ukrainian soldiers are using residential buildings as firing positions, poorly trained Russian soldiers with a nervous trigger finger will inevitably shoot at them and anything else that looks like it might contain hidden threats. It's a tactic that will contribute to civilian casualties.
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This is true, but it all seems a rather inevitable consequence of Russia attacking cities. If Ukraine just met them on the field of battle they'd get crushed. Alternative is surrender and submission. So the rolling ball of consequence goes:

Russia attacks Ukrainian cities with an overwhelming advantage in fire power > Ukrainian soldiers resort to urban combat techniques, including hiding in high rises, to maintain a viable defence> Russia kills more civilians than it otherwise would.

Don't think it's reasonable to pick on the middle man here. Principle should remain that if you don't want Ukrainian soldiers to hide in buildings don't send tanks into their cities.
 
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spiriticon said:
By the looks of it most of them have not been told why they are there. Kind of like their army in Ukraine.
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Yeah, sadly that might be the case. I don't hold any particular grudge towards individuals there. They could plausibly make a stand and refuse, but it's easy for me to sit here and say that.

Similar feelings towards the soldiers, except many of them seem to be participating in war crimes of varying severities.
 
11101 said:
Bit of a contrarian post here.

I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.

edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:

Click to expand...


Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Invasions lead to urban warfare. Urban warfare means soldiers (of both sides) will be taking cover behind or inside buildings, they won't be on the streets like a marching band on parade day. Inside those buildings there might at any time be civilians as well, it's not like there's constant information sharing between civilians, defenders & attackers. It's not always done on purpose either. If the invaders use heavy artillery or air-strikes on those buildings, there will quite likely be civilian casualties as well. Defenders will claim the attackers are targeting civilians and the attackers will claim the defenders are using civilians as human shields.

The above tale is as old as time and pretty much unavoidable when urban warfare ensues. What isn't unavoidable is invading a country in the first place.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
This is true, but it all seems a rather inevitable consequence of Russia attacking cities. If Ukraine just met them on the field of battle they'd get crushed. Alternative is surrender and submission. So the rolling ball of consequence goes:

Russia attacks Ukrainian cities with an overwhelming advantage in fire power > Ukrainian soldiers resort to urban combat techniques, including hiding in high rises, to maintain a viable defence> Russia kills more civilians than it otherwise would.

Don't think it's reasonable to pick on the middle man here. Principle should remain that if you don't want Ukrainian soldiers to hide in buildings don't send tanks into their cities.
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I hope people who used to yap on about militants in Gaza using "human shields" finally see this as well. This is how it actually happens. Some people think it's as if military basecamps are hiding under school children. In reality it's because you don't have much else to go.
 
LDUred said:
Yep, was thinking the exact same thing. Imagining that it's just 'Putin's war' has always struck me as wishful, Pollyanna thinking. Sure, there will be intellectuals who will vehemently and eloquently oppose Putin, but they will be in the minority and easy to isolate.

Your average Russian will be captive to a propaganda machine that has been churning out abject nationalist drivel for the last twenty years. We shouldn't underestimate how immersive that is and how that attitude will become entrenched during a time when Russia is at war.
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People don't want to believe the powers of propaganda and state aggression. In reality, this war can easily be framed by Russians as a liberation of some sort.
 
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