Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

RedDevilQuebecois said:
The key here is how much of an impetus the US decision has upon other European allies. It could well be the perfect excuse that some European politicians wanted to start moving towards different energy sources, making deals with other non-Russian entities.
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The problem with this line of thinking is that the high reliability of European countries, most prominently Germany to Russian Gas is actually a result of moving away from nuclear and coal towards green or climate neutral energy like hydrogyn, wind and solar (which is in principle a noble goal)). Russian gas was never the endgame but the temporary solution until a complete transition towards green energy, which even moreso than just large monetary investment takes time to build the infrastructure to support that. Putin as much as a madman than he is knew this which is why he attacked when the vulnerabilty of European countries was pretty much as high as it ever will be.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
That's not the point @Maticmaker made. The statement was:
"Of course, but I was saying how he (Putin) does present it to the Russian people. Lets be honest if the Russian people wanted freedom and democracy they would have chosen it, like Ukraine has."
which somehow suggests that the people of a country have the Governments and establishment that they desire and deserve.
That's not only utterly naïve, as it misses the point you have quite rightly just made and the extent to which populations can be manipulated and controlled, but also bizarrely suggests that something innate in the make up of the Russian people, whatever that is defined as, somehow intrinsically wish to live under aggressive state control and expansionism.
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I’m not disagreeing with you - of course people living under authoritarian regimes don’t get to choose, and don’t necessarily reflect, their leader - but I am sceptical as to the likelihood of Russia genuinely adopting Western-style democracy in the near to medium future. Anyway, I don’t want to derail this thread with speculation as to what follows the demise of the current grotesque impersonation of a democratically-elected president.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
That's not the point @Maticmaker made. The statement was:
"Of course, but I was saying how he (Putin) does present it to the Russian people. Lets be honest if the Russian people wanted freedom and democracy they would have chosen it, like Ukraine has."
which somehow suggests that the people of a country have the Governments and establishment that they desire and deserve.
That's not only utterly naïve, as it misses the point you have quite rightly just made and the extent to which populations can be manipulated and controlled, but also bizarrely suggests that something innate in the make up of the Russian people, whatever that is defined as, somehow intrinsically wish to live under aggressive state control and expansionism.
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"Something innate" could mean genetics, the human DNA. Then it is obviously wrong, the DNA is the same for all humans.

But "something innate" could also mean the culture one grows up. Do you think that it could be true that the underlying culture has strong tendencies to authoritarianism?
 
Fingeredmouse said:
This post is fecking ridiculous.
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No, it's largely correct. Do not underestimate Putin's popularity, particularly in cities east of the Urals, rural towns and Siberian agricultural communities.

In certain western Russian metropolitan areas there is more of a hunger for liberal democracy but social attitudes in the country are largely far more conservative than in the west.

Putin is a product of the cold war, several generations of Russians who were told for decades that the west is a hostile threat that is an existential danger to Russia. This is not an easy stereotype to shake off, and Putin knows how to play into peoples' fears and sometimes prejudices.
 
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Carolina Red said:
Zalensky just quoted Churchill’s “we shall fight on the beaches” speech to the House of Commons.
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He said that the Ukrainians would fight to the end at sea, air and land so saying he quoted Churchill is like those kids who think Messi snapping his fingers is copying Thanos, or that Marvel invented Thor.

Obviously I can't call you a pleb because you're a staff member so I'll just drop a link below to my list of things you were correct about with your assertion that he was quoting Churchill;
 
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TheLiverBird said:
What I meant was is it a speech that will result in just a bunch of Moron politicians standing and clapping

Or will he likely gain anything from this speech?

Touching our hearts is one thing, didn’t need a speech for that when you consider what we’ve seen happening in Ukrainian

What I’m getting at is what will an address like this get from the UK government? Anything ? Or just an applause?
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What does any such achieve in that case?

I’m not sure what your point is or what you’re expecting.

The fact it’s never been done before in the history of the Commons is something. If it unites the house into increasing sanctions, improving the visa situation and increasing the support for the Ukraine it’s worth it.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
He said that the Ukrainians would fight to the end at sea, air and land so saying he quoted Churchill is like those kids who think Messi snapping his fingers is copying Thanos, or that Marvel invented Thor.

Obviously I can't call you a pleb because you're a staff member so I'll just drop a link below to my list of things you were correct about with your assertion that he was quoted Churchill;
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I think to be fair that was very much the intention of Zelinsky. He wanted to show similarities between the UK and Ukraine RE the Nazi fight.

It was a direct reference to Churchill
 
TheReligion said:
I think to be fair that was very much the intention of Zelinsky. He wanted to show similarities between the UK and Ukraine RE the Nazi fight.

It was a direct reference to Churchill
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Definitely. He was a comedian/actor and he knows how to tailor his speech to his audience. It was more convincing than Johnson as JFK anyway.
 
TheReligion said:
I think to be fair that was very much the intention of Zelinsky. He wanted to show similarities between the UK and Ukraine RE the Nazi fight.

It was a direct reference to Churchill
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Don't "be fair" - he's wrong and he deserves to be made aware that he's wrong. Whose side are you on?
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Banning the export of raw materials is an interesting move. What kind of sense does that make? Forcing supply shortage in the West?
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That may be an after-effect, but I would think it's more to do with a hugely weakened rouble and having to bring more manufacturing internally to keep the economy moving and supply the public with what they need.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Banning the export of raw materials is an interesting move. What kind of sense does that make? Forcing supply shortage in the West?
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Preserving raw materials for domestic consumption ? Maybe helping the war effort or a protracted shortage due to lack of imports ?
 
Raoul said:
Preserving raw materials for domestic consumption ? Maybe helping the war effort or a protracted shortage due to lack of imports ?
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Did think of that (remember I asked you if he'd go down this path and switch to a war-footing, or at least try to, and this sort of hints at an isolationist version of that). Just weird if this was to involve the Asian market too.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
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As a Greek I am telling you that this guy is a complete moron. Zero substance. He only wants to grab attention to himself. He almost single-handedly destroyed the Greek economy in 2015, we were very lucky that the head of his party threw him out!
 
Mike Smalling said:
It would be much more impactful if they also stopped paying them. I wonder if it's somehow illegal, but sounded like that is what IKEA is doing.
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Nah, I disagree with that. McDonalds employees are not exactly millionaires, lots of them will be living paycheck to paycheck. Cutting them off is not fair in a country with such a weak welfare system.

Not specifically aimed at you but I find it strange how this is such a left leaning forum but so many people are quick to celebrate the hardship the average Russian citizen is and will be under, when most of them are in no position to do anything about Putin and the war.
 
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