Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

if the camps are real, as are the first hand accounts of torture and maltreatment, how is “China evil” an alt/far right narrative?

This is before we even get started on their general censorship, treatment of their population of Hong Kong, re-education of tennis stars who get raped by leadership and everything else.

Yeah? But what about guantanamo?
 
Gonna be potentially naive and assume irony here. :)

Yeah? But what about metaphor? Or hyperbole? It's always irony with you libs. Do your research into other rhetorical devices.
 
Now we know? How, because Putin said so? Mr. Transparency himself?

Russia’s involvement in Ukraine started way before the annexation of Crimea.

No because it is reasonable to assume that no Russian leader wants to lose Sevastopol. It is the only port they have that is not frozen all year around. Why do you the Americans did not want nuclear weapons in Cuba? It is understandable too. Are the Russians not equal to all of you from America or Europe? Do they not have a right to be concerned when the US have said the Russians are their enemies? Crimea was part of the USSR and they did want to get out from Ukraine long before that and the majority to them are Russians.
 
There is tons of fake news around China/Uighurs tbf, from organ harvesting to Genocide. "China Evil" is an alt/far right narrative so lots of crap gets spread around the net and people believe it. The camps appear to be real of course.
The organ harvesting is fake?! Some crazy videos go round on the net.. that liveleak stuff is truly insane. There's some mad stuff out there I'd probably buy organ harvesting being a thing
 
No because it is reasonable to assume that no Russian leader wants to lose Sevastopol. It is the only port they have that is not frozen all year around. Why do you the Americans did not want nuclear weapons in Cuba? It is understandable too. Are the Russians not equal to all of you from America or Europe? Do they not have a right to be concerned when the US have said the Russians are their enemies? Crimea was part of the USSR and they did want to get out from Ukraine long before that and the majority to them are Russians.
You the Americans? I can see Kremlin walls from where I'm sitting right now.

No one had threatened to take Crimea away to initiate this crisis. To think that Ukraine would be foolish enough to try & take it back by force is to show your complete lack of comprehension of the power dynamics in the region.
 
No because it is reasonable to assume that no Russian leader wants to lose Sevastopol. It is the only port they have that is not frozen all year around. Why do you the Americans did not want nuclear weapons in Cuba? It is understandable too. Are the Russians not equal to all of you from America or Europe? Do they not have a right to be concerned when the US have said the Russians are their enemies? Crimea was part of the USSR and they did want to get out from Ukraine long before that and the majority to them are Russians.

He already had access to Sevastopol before invading and annexing Crimea. It was always about neo-imperialism to advance his project of using domestic nationalism to reclaim more and more Soviet territory. Ditto with Donbas. Ultimately, he will keep using whatever tools he has at his disposal to continue invading former Soviet territory to avoid democracy ever reaching Russia.
 
Yeah? But what about metaphor? Or hyperbole? It's always irony with you libs. Do your research into other rhetorical devices.
A metaphor is different from a comparison since you're suggesting something different from a literal likeliness. You've compared one detainment (for the lack of a better word) facility with another, it's not a metaphor.
 
if the camps are real, as are the first hand accounts of torture and maltreatment, how is “China evil” an alt/far right narrative?

It just is? Don't as me why, the same propoganda machines that plague social media accross the world pushing conspiracy theories, anti-vax, Q, pro-Trump, whatever causes political division... They also push anti-China stuff.
 
The organ harvesting is fake?! Some crazy videos go round on the net.. that liveleak stuff is truly insane. There's some mad stuff out there I'd probably buy organ harvesting being a thing

It might be a thing somewhere, but specifically the story doin the rounds like 6 years ago of China farming Uighur organs was sourced to some bat-shit infowars-esque Chinise group, who if I remember rightly are funded by same people that fund western alt-right propaganda, can't remember the details now exactly, would have to do some digging.
 
You the Americans? I can see Kremlin walls from where I'm sitting right now.

No one had threatened to take Crimea away to initiate this crisis. To think that Ukraine would be foolish enough to try & take it back by force is to show your complete lack of comprehension
Slightly improved there.
 
It just is? Don't as me why, the same propoganda machines that plague social media accross the world pushing conspiracy theories, anti-vax, Q, pro-Trump, whatever causes political division... They also push anti-China stuff.
Yeah, promoting the views on China being the new global evil superpower is beneficial for whoever runs the Q, Carlson, Rogan and the rest of the clowns — it's very much intact with the American imperialism ideology. But the fact that they're using it doesn't mean that it's their narrative — it doesn't belong to them. It's hardly useful to judge countries on a dichotomous scale of good or evil, but China's regime certainly does way too much stuff that would end up on the evil side from a neutral perspective — both in their foreign and internal policy. Despite their almost unprecedented control of the information that comes out of Chine there's more than enough evidence to evaluate the legitimacy of claims about uyghur camps (and many other sketchy stuff that's happening over there).

Scratch that. If the point that someone is making is that "China = Evil" you can send them back to the Q-shaped hole that they've crawled out of. If the point is to highlight a specific issue, like the discrimination of uyghurs, political overtaking of Hong Kong etc. or aggressive censoring of anyone in the world that dares to even say the word "Taiwan" out loud, you can probably start a discussion — even if you'll try to critically acclaim their sources.
 
A metaphor is different from a comparison since you're suggesting something different from a literal likeliness. You've compared one detainment (for the lack of a better word) facility with another, it's not a metaphor.

You make me sad.
 
Nobody is sharing such a plan OTA unless with the express purpose of deceiving the other side.

These considerations are obviously taken into account before publishing.

The important bit is that exposing this sort of thing (which appears to be a clear US/NATO tactic) deprives Vlad of the element of surprise that is critical in launching some of the hybrid ops he and his Generals are cooking up. Had for instance, the US published information that Putin was about to invade Crimea with little green men, then issue a fake referendum to feign Crimean interest in joining Russia - had they done that before it actually happened, then Putin would've had to abort before he could ever launch. That's the value of publishing before anything ever has a chance to take shape. Hybrid ops are useless without the element of surprise.
 
These considerations are obviously taken into account before publishing.

The important bit is that exposing this sort of thing (which appears to be a clear US/NATO tactic) deprives Vlad of the element of surprise that is critical in launching some of the hybrid ops he and his Generals are cooking up. Had for instance, the US published information that Putin was about to invade Crimea with little green men, then issue a fake referendum to feign Crimean interest in joining Russia - had they done that before it actually happened, then Putin would've had to abort before he could ever launch. That's the value of publishing before anything ever has a chance to take shape. Hybrid ops are useless without the element of surprise.
I agree with this, my comment was on that piece being gathered via sigint.
 
He already had access to Sevastopol before invading and annexing Crimea. It was always about neo-imperialism to advance his project of using domestic nationalism to reclaim more and more Soviet territory. Ditto with Donbas. Ultimately, he will keep using whatever tools he has at his disposal to continue invading former Soviet territory to avoid democracy ever reaching Russia.

Read a bit of history. Ukraine, informed the Russians that they do not intend to extend the lease of Sevastopol.
Yes the right way is to leave Sevastopol. But it's very understandable why they didn't leave. The US has no right to call out on this issue while illegally occupying a few countries. At least part of a few countries. Certainly a lot more than the Russians are doing now.
 
Read a bit of history. Ukraine, informed the Russians that they do not intend to extend the lease of Sevastopol.
Yes the right way is to leave Sevastopol. But it's very understandable why they didn't leave. The US has no right to call out on this issue while illegally occupying a few countries. At least part of a few countries. Certainly a lot more than the Russians are doing now.

If Ukraine chose not to renew then that would be their right as a sovereign nation to do so, and it certainly wouldn't be grounds to invade and annex Crimea, as well invade other parts of Ukraine. Ultimately, the myth that Putin only wanted Black Sea access is undercut by his own behavior in invading other parts of Ukraine. This latest invasion attempt is also a final stake in the heart of the "but he only wants access to Sevastopol" narrative. He is an authoritarian dictator who wants to build an empire by gobbling up lebensraum by invading neighboring countries. I believe we've seen this film before and know how it ends. As for the US, it can pretty much do anything it wants because its the world's most powerful nation. Putin doesn't have such a luxury and will eventually have to capitulate or else risk having to deal with the full force the US and a newly galvanized NATO.
 
Read a bit of history. Ukraine, informed the Russians that they do not intend to extend the lease of Sevastopol.
Yes the right way is to leave Sevastopol. But it's very understandable why they didn't leave. The US has no right to call out on this issue while illegally occupying a few countries. At least part of a few countries. Certainly a lot more than the Russians are doing now.
What history did you read exactly? The original lease (20 years from 1997) was extended by another 25 years in 2010 which meant that Russians could use it all the way up until 2042 (or another prolongation).
 
Ultimately, the myth that Putin only wanted Black Sea access is undercut by his own behavior in invading other parts of Ukraine.
Do not confuse the two just because they've happened at the same time. If we're following your logic, there's no reason for Putin not to include Donetsk & Lugansk as new Russian states just like he did with Crimea.
 
As for the US, it can pretty much do anything it wants because its the world's most powerful nation.
What bollocks, you daren't touch North Korea or Iran as they develop weapons against your wishes, never mind Russia or China, and you won't do anything militarily if Russia does invade Ukraine, further than it has already. You seem to have forgotten defeats and running away in Vietnam and Afghanistan too.

You would be right to increase support for fellow Nato members and right to respond to any invasion with sanctions, but you won't do more.
 
Russia backs China over Taiwan
China backs Russia over nato expansion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60257080

23rd February is defender of the fatherland day in Russia

Also about the perfect time to move tanks over frozen ground that will likley thaw in the coming weeks

Odds just increased on an invasion with the China statement and I'd circle the 23rd Feb as the most likely day
 
Russia backs China over Taiwan
China backs Russia over nato expansion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60257080

23rd February is defender of the fatherland day in Russia

Also about the perfect time to move tanks over frozen ground that will likley thaw in the coming weeks

Odds just increased on an invasion with the China statement and I'd circle the 23rd Feb as the most likely day
Are there odds for this in the UK bookies?
 
Russia backs China over Taiwan
China backs Russia over nato expansion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60257080

23rd February is defender of the fatherland day in Russia

Also about the perfect time to move tanks over frozen ground that will likley thaw in the coming weeks

Odds just increased on an invasion with the China statement and I'd circle the 23rd Feb as the most likely day

I'd imagine he will wait until the Olympics are done. At least that is what he did prior to the last Ukraine invasion by leveraging the momentary Russian soft power following Sochi.
 
I'd imagine he will wait until the Olympics are done. At least that is what he did prior to the last Ukraine invasion by leveraging the momentary Russian soft power following Sochi.
Wasn't the attack on Georgia at 08 right during the Olympics? Which were again in China :nervous: