Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Carolina Red]

Rifles against tanks....

Tanks in a city street are vulnerable

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

lads there wont be a world war 3 without nuclear arms so if it does kick off we are all done for

They sent out an alert here in Ontario this morning around 6am. Typically they are about abducted children and this one was but when it woke me up my first thought was 'here it is, we're all gonna die'.

 

[VorZakone]

First time ever.

 

[MTF]

All this stuff about “now is the time for NATO to step up, stop being wimps” is doing my head in.

As a guy enrolled in the army in a NATO country (through mandatory duty until the age of 44), I’m not so sure I’m ready to die just yet.
I simply can’t see any upside at all to start flexing muscle until it’s the actual last resort.
I’m literally scared shitless for the (inevitable?) phone call about “start preparing - war might be coming”, and even more scared if shit actually hits the fan across the entire continent.
I’m not ready to become cannon fodder because of a megalomaniac.
Call me a pussy, it’s fine.
But I imagine a lot of you guys on here are actually in real danger of being called to combat if things escalate properly. And if you answer truly, are you really ready for that? Are you really ready to die? I know I’m not. And that’s a very real and very possible consequence of escalating things.

I wouldn't ever call you a pussy, anyone in your position would contend with these thoughts. I've been thinking about my own situation too, since it is hypocritical for me to call for an armed defense that I'm not willing to participate in. Very hard decision to make. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Buster15]

If this happens, NATO will intervene, guaranteed.

Even if that were to happen, I am not at all convinced that NATO would directly intervene. It is not going to go head to head with Russia unless a member nation is directly attacked.

 

[sun_tzu]

All this stuff about “now is the time for NATO to step up, stop being wimps” is doing my head in.

As a guy enrolled in the army in a NATO country (through mandatory duty until the age of 44), I’m not so sure I’m ready to die just yet.
I simply can’t see any upside at all to start flexing muscle until it’s the actual last resort.
I’m literally scared shitless for the (inevitable?) phone call about “start preparing - war might be coming”, and even more scared if shit actually hits the fan across the entire continent.
I’m not ready to become cannon fodder because of a megalomaniac.
Call me a pussy, it’s fine.
But I imagine a lot of you guys on here are actually in real danger of being called to combat if things escalate properly. And if you answer truly, are you really ready for that? Are you really ready to die? I know I’m not. And that’s a very real and very possible consequence of escalating things.

Pussy....
But yeah In all seriousness I'd rather we avoid a thermonuclear mass extinction event as well

Though ultimately there has to be some action against Russia military escalation right now could get out of hand pretty quick

 

[nimic]

Only from a Euro-centric point of view.

You can't start an argument about semantics and then decry that it's an argument about semantics.

No, I already described why it isn't from an Euro-centric point of view. And if that's your main argument, then World War 1 wasn't a world war either. That war was for all intents and purposes entirely fought in Europe.

In any case, I wasn't decrying it, I was describing it.

 

[Random Task]

I never quite knew if one should take such remarks seriously. Could be standard rhetoric to intimidate, rather than actually meaning it.

But I also didn't think Putin would actually go ahead with a full-scale invasion. So I think it's clear we better take those remarks seriously.

I don't think anyone doubt's his sincerity with that statement.

He didn't actually say the words, but I read that statement as a clear threat of nuclear war. Why build the largest arsenal of nuclear warheads worldwide if you have no intention of using them?

People say the building of nuclear arms is a deterrent, and maybe that is the case for the vast majority of nations currently housing them, but I'm not convinced that the same logic applies to a megalomaniac such as Vladimir Putin.

 

[Water Melon]

NATO have much superior fighter jets. They also have terrific air defense systems. If this spills over to a NATO country, Russia stands no chance. And it is very very unlikely it goes nuclear. Some more arms for Ukraine are on the way already. NATO are declaring this to the whole world. Technically this means that the line about helping the brave nation to stop aggression has been crossed. Let's see how Putler responds. Sanctions are kicking in too. It is not that bad at all.

 

[IWat]

They couldn't get air superiority over the UK. Not a chance. A combination of range issues and the RAF's technological superiority.

Forgive me for quoting myself, here is something I said about this subject several pages ago. The TLDR is that Russia could not conquer the UK conventionally.

Or they'd just fire cruise missiles at our power plants which we can't defend because we have nothing to shoot them down with?

75 cruise missiles and the lights and power go out across the UK.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I can totally understand your reasoning, it’s a terrible predicament to be faced with and I’ve thought about it many times. I wouldn’t want to die for a cause that’s not personal to me, but then there’s the saying “Evil only prevails, when good men do nothing”.

Where do you live btw? Wouldn’t want to be facing it either.

I live in Norway. And I honestly don’t think I’ll be needed for a while - if ever.
But some of this “let’s take the fight to them! They asked for it! How long can we just watch them do this? Let’s go!!!” - talk is insane to me. Start talking that shit if you enlist and are actually ready to go yourself. The wish for retaliation and intervention comes at a cost. Part of that cost might be me and my friends. I’m really not ready for that. But there is seemingly a lot of tough guys ready for battle in here! And if they’re serious, and actually are ready and willing to fight, they have my utmost respect. I’m just not sure half of them are.

 

[Gambit]

I hate to break it, but apart from the Eurofighters, the UK has very little/no air defence. Type 45 destroyer is literally the best air defence we have.

157 Typhoons ( eurofighters) 35 Lightining 2, the New Sabre as well as the older Rapier, Shorad systems. Then we can add the Navy to it

 

[Irwin99]

Putin is all in on this, I have a bad feeling he’s willing to take this further than many people think.

He must know if he fails then he's just made Ukrainian national identity 100 million times stronger than it already is. They'll be saying they chased the Russians away etc.

This is really fecking scary.

 

[Charlie Foley]

With civilians being armed the best case is a ceasefire. Worst case we are looking at a repeat of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944.

I was just talking about Warsaw 44 with my fiancée. Would be brutal but I worry it’s coming. We shall see

 

[TheReligion]

Sanctions make perfect sense:

• No European visas for Russians
• No resident cards for Russians
• No appeals to the European Court of Human Rights (the only way to get Justice for political prisoners at the moment)
• Nothing that now stops Russia from reintroducing death sentence

Basically it makes the lives of those that oppose Putin from inside the country 10 times more difficult while hardly even influencing his loyal electorate & ensuring the success of Putin’s politics of alienation from the West. Well done.

What would it take for Russia to say enough is enough and relive Putin?

I appreciate a coup would Russia require the military but surely it’s possible?!

The protests I’ve seen in Moscow have been great but more action and pressure is needed from within. I appreciate its easy to say sat here in the UK but the only way is to stick together and unite on this.

 

[Charlie Foley]

I live in Norway. And I honestly don’t think I’ll be needed for a while - if ever.
But some of this “let’s take the fight to them! They asked for it! How long can we just watch them do this? Let’s go!!!” - talk is insane to me. Start talking that shit if you enlist and are actually ready to go yourself. The wish for retaliation and intervention comes at a cost. Part of that cost might be me and my friends. I’m really not ready for that. But there is seemingly a lot of tough guys ready for battle in here! And if they’re serious, and actually are ready and willing to fight, they have my utmost respect. I’m just not sure half of them are.

I reckon a lot of the people saying it don’t think they would ever be the ones fighting

 

[Buster15]

Russia doesn't have the range to sustain air superiority over British skies, their bases are too far away for anything other than long range bombers in any meaningful numbers. Bombers that are vulnerable without fighter cover.

We also have a very strong and competent ground to air defence defence system with the army's sky sabre systems.

That is correct up to a point.
The UK would not become a target unless of course Russia had made major gains in Europe, which is extremely unlikely.
I was just pointing out that the RAF has fewer front line fast jets and squadrons than at any time in many many decades.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Tanks in a city street are vulnerable

Yep, anything ranging from anti-tank weapons to homemade bombs can be deadly for both tanks and infantry in city streets. It's the stuff of nightmares for any mititary force regardless of how much training they receive.

 

[matt10000]

A war between NATO and Russia would be a war between NATO and Russia. The rest of the world would stay on the sidelines. Unlike WW1 and WW2, there won't be global empires dragged into the fighting. And there won't be any Asian, African or South American thatres to speak of.

A war between NATO and Russia would result in China invading Tawain and other oppoortunist regimes to do what they want while the west is too bisy rondo much about it

 

[sun_tzu]

Or they'd just fire cruise missiles at our power plants which we can't defend because we have nothing to shoot them down with?

75 cruise missiles and the lights and power go out across the UK.

Remember when people were phoning the police because kfc ran out of chicken... A week without internet and heating and we will all be saluting Darth putin

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Let's see how Putler responds.

That should be a hashtag word to trend on Twitter.

 

[Dante]

No, I already described why it isn't from an Euro-centric point of view. And if that's your main argument, then World War 1 wasn't a world war either. That war was for all intents and purposes entirely fought in Europe.

In any case, I wasn't decrying it, I was describing it. No reason to defensive about that, a argument has two sides.

I'm being 'defensive' in the UK. You'd probably consider this a World War as well.

 

[Buster15]

Tanks in a city street are vulnerable

That is a very fair point.
I was more making a comparison between the two as it summaries the gulf in equipment Ukraine is up against.

 

[adexkola]

Saw this on Sky News live. Time for us to step in I think.

Russia's objectives 'not limited to Ukraine' - NATO secretary general
NATO's secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, tells a news conference "the Kremlin's objectives are not limited to Ukraine".

He says Putin is asking for troops to be withdrawn from countries which joined the alliance after 1997, and will use force to achieve its objectives.

He says Europe now has a "new normal", and Russia and Belarus will be "held accountable".

He's gone mad. There is nothing rational or game theory like about insisting countries leave NATO.

 

[Dante]

A war between NATO and Russia would result in China invading Tawain and other oppoortunist regimes to do what they want while the west is too bisy rondo much about it

Yep, that was what I stated in my original post until the discussion got taken off the rails by @ninemic.

But if it's true that China have restricted finance for Russian commodities, I wouldn't be so sure they'd be willing to enter the fray for Putin. An invasion of Taiwan would be separate from what Russia are doing, even though America would be on the opposing side of each.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I reckon a lot of the people saying it don’t think they would ever be the ones fighting

Then they better wake the fudge up.

 

[the hea]

 

[Hugh Jass]

How big is natos army?

 

[TMDaines]

Come on, the Russian people!

 

[Water Melon]

That should be a hashtag word to trend on Twitter.

In Russian language it has been for ages.

 

[IWat]

157 Typhoons ( eurofighters) 35 Lightining 2, the New Sabre as well as the older Rapier, Shorad systems. Then we can add the Navy to it

Rapier and Shorad is only good for copters and low-altitude. I know Sabre has been "delivered" but is it even operational?

 

[KingCavani]

You just sound like a selfish prick who doesn't give a shit that innocent Ukrainians are dying. If this is the mentality of everyone in the nato the world will be fecked soon.

He doesn’t sound selfish at all and raises a valid point about people talking tough comfortably behind their keyboard.

The prospect of war and death is terrifying. To downplay that to someone who may legitimately get dragged into it is pretty disgusting.

 

[matt10000]

Yep, that was what I stated in my original post until the discussion got taken off the rails by @ninemic.

indeed and emboldened china could then start thinking about further wxpansion australia, japan……..

 

[groovyalbert]

Sounds like fighting is reaching the capital

 

[Skåre Willoch]

You just sound like a selfish prick who doesn't give a shit that innocent Ukrainians are dying. If this is the mentality of everyone in the nato the world will be fecked soon.

A fair and expected response. I’m not sure I agree, but I totally get your point. I expect you to be updating us from the eastern front when they call for volunteers to fight.

 

[Deery]

I live in Norway. And I honestly don’t think I’ll be needed for a while - if ever.
But some of this “let’s take the fight to them! They asked for it! How long can we just watch them do this? Let’s go!!!” - talk is insane to me. Start talking that shit if you enlist and are actually ready to go yourself. The wish for retaliation and intervention comes at a cost. Part of that cost might be me and my friends. I’m really not ready for that. But there is seemingly a lot of tough guys ready for battle in here! And if they’re serious, and actually are ready and willing to fight, they have my utmost respect. I’m just not sure half of them are.

You’ll always get that kind of thinking, but in reality War is a dirty, nasty, thing and shouldn’t have any place in a civilised society. I’m pretty sure anyone calling for NATO to get involved aren’t going in themselves. I hope you don’t have to be called up, but this thing is very serious and I wouldn’t rule anything off the table.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I know Ukraine’s former leader didn’t want to be part of NATO, but he was ousted in 2014. Did NATO drag it’s heals on getting them in? Obviously knowing this war was a possibility, how long is the road map for NATO taking a country in?

 

[JPRouve]

First time ever.

I thought that it was already the case. I was reading that France will lead command of NATO focer in Romania. And also take charge of Estonia air defense.

 

[Gambit]

Rapier and Shorad is only good for copters and low-altitude. I know Sabre has been "delivered" but is it even operational?

First batch went into service in December.

 

[Rajma]