Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

People painting Putin as some unhinged mad man is not helping IMO. He is far more intelligent than is being made out. This has been planned since Crimea. He has built closer military relations with China, made 2 of the big European countries utterly reliant on him for energy along with countless other smaller ones.

Russia is practically debt free compared to the rest of Europe and the UK. His banks prop up the rest of us. By doing this he has split the EU already, and I can only see it getting worse. Putin knows exactly what he is doing.

Not to mention Russia possesses the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Almost 7000 nuclear warheads at last count.

Putin has been planning this for years.
 
The Americans don't want it either. It will destroy the USD as China now has their own system. The Russians will simply switch to to that.

400 banks mainly in Russia/China have signed up to that new system, compared to the 11,000 worldwide banks that use SWIFT.

So they can still have a banking relationship with China but would cut them off from the rest of the world. It would totally cripple all major companies in Russia and probably cut the countries GDP in half, overnight.

I've been listening to @AkaashMaharaj who personally worked on removing Vatican-City from SWIFT (they were breaching money laundering laws). He claims 1.5% of Europe's overall banking transactions go to/from Russia. So the overall cost of doing it is feck all in the scheme of things... However there will of course be a few groups that that it affects significantly that will try to block it.
 
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What's stopping the Russian's just switching to it anyway? It's being made to seem like removing Russia from SWIFT would have a worse impact on the West than Russia.

FYI I have feck all clue about SWIFT or what the feck it does (international banking system?).

It's the main system banks use to make international payments, which makes it the main way to finance international trade. If Russia got kicked out it would see delays and increased expense for even a lot of the day to day transactions that keep their economy running.

As for why they don't switch anyway, switching to a model that's adopted by fewer insititutions immediately entails its own disadvantages. The Chinese system CIPS is less than 0.5% the size of SWIFT.
 
400 banks mainly in Russia/China have signed up to that new system, compared to the 11,000 worldwide banks that use SWIFT.

So they can still have a banking relationship with China but would cut them off from the rest of the world. It would totally cripple all major companies in Russia and probably cut the countries GDP in half, overnight.

5% apparently. (can't remember where I read it but likely US media/politico.)

So less of an effect than brexit.
 
Not to mention Russia possesses the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Almost 7000 nuclear warheads at last count.

Putin has been planning this for years.


Absolutely, and the main world leaders knew it along with most educated people. How Europe has allowed its self to depend on Russia for their economy and natural resources is sheer stupidly. NATO attacks Russia the lights go off in a lot of Eastern Europe.
 
Back in the day, a lot of military leaders actually said that mandatory military service wasn't worth the hassle and most people who did it really don't care about it and just wanted to get their time over with. 7 months of military service like it was towards the end also was in no way enough to time to teach them anything substantial, bar this is how you hold a rifle and how not to shoot yourself in the foot.

Like I said we also need to spend more on the military, I think this is one thing Trump was actually right about, we get away too cheaply when it comes to paying for our security, but the money needs to go to the military and not an army of external advisors that our former government was so keen on, the current probably still are as well. But again that's politics for you, instead of sitting behind bars because of corruption and wasting taxpayer money von der Leyen was sent to the head of the EU commission.

Yeah, they said that, because the general sentiment was like that back in the days. The military had no chance but to concede in that regard, due do social and political pressure. 7 months was too short anyways, that's definitely the case. I'd be in favor of around 1 year of mandatory military service for every german citizen, no matter the sex. It holds great potential for integration and social equality as well. No excuses due to jobs, studying or anything bar illnesses. It's not only about teaching anything substantial in the case of warfare, it's about giving people the mindset and showing the importance of military when shit hits the fan. Also, as I said before, many people from the military I talked to said that they specifically chose that carreer path because they found their military service to be something they could see themselves working longterm. Those kind of guys don't exist anymore - people who nowadays go to the military to do so because they would have done anyway or because they have no other choice. The quality of education, discipline and behavior in lower ranks is absolutely shocking. My cousin is a high ranking officer - navy commanding officer and nowadays diplomate, funny enough, in Russia, and the stories he told me about daily life and the struggles are mind boggling. Not only that they're underfunded is what's bothering him the most, but how people tend to look down on soldiers, like all of them were murderers.
Yes, we need to spend more money on military. It just won't happen, unfortunately, as especially the current government has completely different goals and no competence in that field. Maybe there's a shift after seeing what's happening in the Ukraine, but it won't be strong enough. The whole Bundeswehr needs a gigantic reformation. On all levels, the complete structure, the whole identity needs a new shape. Really don't see anyone currently capable of pushing such a huge and actually for germany military revolution, considering our military history in recent decades.
It'll just decline, like the whole country does.
 
Saw on sky news some minister has said NATO and british army are bolstering defences around Estonia.
 
Damn. Still can't believe this is happening. I think it hasn't truly sunk in yet for me.
 
Yeah, they said that, because the general sentiment was like that back in the days. The military had no chance but to concede in that regard, due do social and political pressure. 7 months was too short anyways, that's definitely the case. I'd be in favor of around 1 year of mandatory military service for every german citizen, no matter the sex.

It works really well in Norway and Israel. Most countries exclude women for some reason.
 
I would be. We are dealing with very fine margins here.

I hope so.

The thought of allowing this maniac to freely waltz through Europe, rebuilding his precious USSR that he believes is his by right, makes my blood boil.

But I have no faith in NATO after the weak sanctions imposed on Russia. Sanctions that Putin would have probably predicted and is prepared for
 
People painting Putin as some unhinged mad man is not helping IMO. He is far more intelligent than is being made out. This has been planned since Crimea. He has built closer military relations with China, made 2 of the big European countries utterly reliant on him for energy along with countless other smaller ones.

Russia is practically debt free compared to the rest of Europe and the UK. His banks prop up the rest of us. By doing this he has split the EU already, and I can only see it getting worse. Putin knows exactly what he is doing.

This whole thing would have been avoided if the Americans took their security concerns seriously from the time of Yeltsin.
Putin should have used diplomatic means to do so.
Poor Ukraine has been put in this position by people who are not Ukrainians and the people of Ukraine are the people who are suffering. Even the Ukrainian President who came to power promising to end the issues were held hostage by others.
 
Saw on sky news some minister has said NATO and british army are bolstering defences around Estonia.
Yeah Biden said that support has been sent to reassure NATO countries and NOT to support Ukraine.
 
And maybe that's why NATO refused to integrate Ukraina and Georgia, countries that are really under threat from Putin.

It's a very strict criteria by NATO, that for a country to join it can have no "international, ethnic or external territorial dispute" to become a member. Even Macedonia were blocked from joining until they agreed to change their name to North Macedonia, due to a naming dispute with Greece, while there were no fighting or anything going on.

Ukraine not being able to join NATO isn't as controversial/calculated as some think, it's a policy that's been around since NATOs beginning. I'm sure there are nuances and some mild exceptions to this rule, but Ukraine has been in an active border dispute (you can even say ethnic dispute) ever since Janukovitch was overthrown. With that going on, it's always 100% no to join NATO.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm not trying to be an armchair expert, and know nothing about this other than what has been reported in the past weeks.
 
So. This is one historic feckup. I have very, very good friends in Ukraine whom I haven't been able to reach. I am also very far removed from the conflict. As an observer who despises Putin, I have come to one conclusion on here today.
  • Russians voicing their disapproval with Russia in any way are commended by the West, but charged with treason in Russia
  • Westerners voicing their disapproval with NATO in any way are commended by the East, but seen as treacherous, Putin-lovers
Ukrainians are dying and they will inevitably lose their country. Who is to blame? Putin. And? No, not the West! I can't say it. Because, let's face it. I don't want to be seen as a Putin-lover because I hate him.

Why is there no middle ground here? Why can't we remove ourselves and look at this objectively? NATO is sanctioning the shit out of Russia. Has that stopped them from killing my buddies? No. Will my friends now have to live under dictatorship rule? Most probably. Why didn't someone just zap Putin with a satellite? Why didn't NATO just bend the rules and admit Ukraine into NATO? It would've prevented this shitshow, for sure.

Who is innocent? Russia? No. NATO? No. People on both sides who are opposed to war? Yup.

This whole sickening affair has chipped away at my faith in humanity. We've achieved so much. And yet. Our leaders represent the worst of us. Feck Putin. Feck Biden. Feck Boris. Feck Macron. Feck Zelensky. Feck NATO.
 
I hope so.

The thought of allowing this maniac to freely waltz through Europe, rebuilding his precious USSR that he believes is his by right, makes my blood boil.

But I have no faith in NATO after the weak sanctions imposed on Russia. Sanctions that Putin would have probably predicted and is prepared for
Agree with you buddy. Leaders of NATO are very weak. Focusing on economy and thinking Putin cares about that
 
Yeah Biden said that support has been sent to reassure NATO countries and NOT to support Ukraine.

Makes you feel rotten for Ukraine, i understand NATO, US and UK can't just start blasting Russian troops but we're just watching on as civilians fight for their country.
 




Don't worry Ukrainians, caftards think if you give in it'll all be daisies.
 
NATO would need to support countries immediately, show a strength of force at any first sight of a potential invasion.

Putin cannot be allowed to think there is a weakness or chink in the chain. A big deterrent is the way forward.

The moment an actual battle or invasion happens, then it's WW3.

Unfortunately what's happening in Ukraine is practically impossible to stop - but from this point onwards we european countries need to be on red alert, and work together.
 
Not to mention Russia possesses the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Almost 7000 nuclear warheads at last count.

Putin has been planning this for years.

If that is the case, what you do is just circle Russia with more military bases. Suck them into a proper Cold War where they start spending more on miliatry. Obliterate them economically to make sure that no Ukraine disaster happens again.
 
Playing around with sanctions is a loser's game from start to finish. In any case, the Kremlin has strategically and logisitically prepared for their being imposed: Putin has been boosting Russia's reserves for years to mitigate such an outcome. He also has the advantage of having leverage over Europe thanks to controlling nearly half of all its gas.

The chief concerns of the West cut very little ice in Russia, which is obsessed with its own divine right to rule and more closed off and remote than the west can imagine. We see everything through our own concerns with social justice but Putin sees this as a weakness to be exploited for his own ends. The more the West worries about Climate Change, the better for him. That's why it's ridiculous to see John Kerry waffling about the topic and some Hollywood actress writing a poem telling Putin he needed love as a child. The West does not understand Putin nor even grasp his expansionist objectives and hatred for democracy.

Moreover, this really isn't just about the Ukraine but about triggering fascism globally and destroying democracy. The West must react or it will be lost forever.
 
The greater problem was the economic policy towards Russia in general after the Soviet Union which set the stage for a strongman like Putin to rise to power.

This is it in a 'nutshell' ... its not like there hasn't been any warnings, Putin has been consolidating his hold on power in Russia for years, even manipulating the countries own rules on length of time in office etc. Putin has demonstrated time and again that he will not stop 'prodding and poking' until he gets back what he sees as the defensive circle of the USSR, around Russia, or something like it. However interests in the West always wanted a share of the spoils after the USSR fell, the 'peace dividend' was one of the phrases used at the time, so it collectively went along with this 'strongman' stuff.
The people in the Ukraine, Baltic Sates and even Poland do have cause for concern, sanctions will do damage both inside and outside Russia, but the they won't stop Putin, he will continue seeking to 'pull teeth' across Europe until he's stopped... but by who, external or internal forces... this can all end badly?
 
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So. This is one historic feckup. I have very, very good friends in Ukraine whom I haven't been able to reach. I am also very far removed from the conflict. As an observer who despises Putin, I have come to one conclusion on here today.
  • Russians voicing their disapproval with Russia in any way are commended by the West, but charged with treason in Russia
  • Westerners voicing their disapproval with NATO in any way are commended by the East, but seen as treacherous, Putin-lovers
Ukrainians are dying and they will inevitably lose their country. Who is to blame? Putin. And? No, not the West! I can't say it. Because, let's face it. I don't want to be seen as a Putin-lover because I hate him.

Why is there no middle ground here? Why can't we remove ourselves and look at this objectively? NATO is sanctioning the shit out of Russia. Has that stopped them from killing my buddies? No. Will my friends now have to live under dictatorship rule? Most probably. Why didn't someone just zap Putin with a satellite? Why didn't NATO just bend the rules and admit Ukraine into NATO? It would've prevented this shitshow, for sure.

Who is innocent? Russia? No. NATO? No. People on both sides who are opposed to war? Yup.

This whole sickening affair has chipped away at my faith in humanity. We've achieved so much. And yet. Our leaders represent the worst of us. Feck Putin. Feck Biden. Feck Boris. Feck Macron. Feck Zelensky. Feck NATO.

The invasion of Ukraine is entirely Russia's doing. The constant need some people seem to have to take this moment to blame NATO is beyond stupid and actually playing into Russian propaganda. Stop it.