Yet a lot of people think that way. Hell, they think Ukraine should have just surrendered when the war started.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) review both the Everton and Bodø/Glimt victories at Old Trafford. Listen to the guys discuss 2 wins and 7 goals in the last week, analyse of the Amorim formation, focus on Amad and how he is playing, and also take a look at Hojlund, Rashford & Zirkzee – who starts v Arsenal?
Guy with a baseball cap didnt have the best of days.
Ukraine won't formally cede it, there's diplomatic wording that could be used. Similar to the US's wording on Taiwan which was something like the US acknowledge China's belief that they have rights to the island. It's meaningless but can help in negotiations.
That's of course if Ukraine are willing to talk to Russia about any negotiation considering Russia could just try and take more land in a few years.
Exactly. Nobody is claiming that the West isn't pursuing its own interests in Ukraine. In my opinion, the motives of democracies are diverse by nature. If there are human catastrophes, the public pressure on the ruling party can become so big that altruism can play a role but the same is true for economic or geopolitical interests. And the lines between those sentiments are small. For instance, I believe that there were many German politicians who indeed believed Nordstream would bring Russia closer to Europe poltically and would lead to a peaceful export of democratic values while cynics primarily saw the economic possibilities of cheap energy. And since human beings are rarely completely aware of the cocktail of different emotions and sentiments that make them behave how they behave, there are probably a lot of decision makers and political players for which both is true in a way.
Autocratic states however are a different topic since the people hold less power so the motives might be less diverse.
Surrender, you mean.
I am not sure what you mean by welcoming Russians back. Are you talking about WW2 and Red Army helping us get rid of the Germans or are you talking about Yugoslavia which was unaligned, and Soviets never invaded like they did Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Poland. As far as Serbia goes, Russians already invaded Belgrade without a single shot fired.
While USA hegemony is under threat, we still live in Western World order and Russians are not doing well. Serbian chess team has a lot of Russians now, and things aren't good when you are taking Serbian citizenship.
Did anyone manage to pick a meaningful thought from this salad?
So they should go nothing whilst their people get blown to feck and whilst the neighborhood bully keeps stealing their land? Alrighty then
How is that a contradiction? In most cases, stupidity and incompetence actually make you more dangerous, not less, because you behave erratic. From a geopolitical perspective, Russia is like the drunk idiot who feels provoked by everybody and starts trouble whenever he can although he can't even work straight. Eventually he'll get beaten up but he'll dish out a few hits and demolishes a bit of property along the way to ensure everybody loses, not only him.
He's sarcastic.
Economist reports a figure of 60K-100K Ukrainian KIA.
How many Ukrainian soldiers have died?
How many Ukrainian soldiers have died?
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/11/26/how-many-ukrainian-soldiers-have-died
Thank god for that!
I can't see how you can have that without Western security guarantees, and I don't even know how Ukraine could trust the West would keep them, or that Russia wouldn't test them.
Russia will note that the US and the UK were not able to enforce their previous "security assurances" in the Budapest Memorandum. Why should Ukraine trust anything any external party says about Ukrainian security?
(Everyone talks about the supposed "betrayal" of the "promises" given to Russia about NATO expansion, but the real betrayal is Russia's breaking of their agreement in this document.)
I think the majority of countries try not to interfere heavily in other countries politics or get involved in conflict.
For me the reasons why are very important as everything is done for a reason. Some with good intentions, some mixed, some not so good. Some due to pressures or dependancies from other nations.
No Vorkazone western media do not give a different perspective in their general reporting of the conflict. Who are the main critics of Ukraine who are actively reporting? Who are the journalists?
The country is in martial law. As part of martial law any speech which impacts morale or the war effort is prohibited. Like the example youve given over a soldier who spoke out and is now in custody.
In the UK we have D Notices actively in place in relation to the Ukraine war and certain things are also not allowed to be reported due to the threat to national security.
Matt Kennard is an excellent journalist who has covered some of the above.
Anyhow if you wish to argue semantics, we can. My point was you rarely here any opposition to the war from our media and alot of this is due to martial law. Yes you found some examples and some of those are now in custody for speaking out.
But in my eyes you've also proven the point I was making through your answer by providing an example of someone locked up in custody after speaking out. Whether or not you choose to believe on the restrictions of freedom of speech and the lack of opposition perspective within Ukraine is your perogative.
On a personal level I'd also like to say sorry for my post. I was trying to have a joke when I said "round 1 to kenny" but I understand it did come across as arrogant and maybe point scoring which is not why im here. Im here for the debate and discussion and I've enjoyed that so far. So I am genuinely sorry as this isn't the right topic for those comments.
I agree and it's good to be able to have civil discussion and debate despite having divisive views - something many of our politicians seem to struggle with nowadays.I dont agree in some things but that's what forums are for, for a normal, civil discussion.
Ukraine is the biggest loser and will be the biggest loser whatever happens, that's sadly a fact.
Unfortunately it's how I see it at the moment. I just hope the bloodshed can end and the war can be brought to the negotiation table sooner rather than later with amicable progressive agreements which can lead to peace or even a ceasefire of some sort.
Where they? I thought Putin said he would have preferred a Biden administration a while back?
I think there's a very fabricated "special relationship" in our media between Trump and Putin. I don't think Trump removed any sanctions on Russia during his last term either? So I don't get the impression there is some requited special relationship and its simply something the media tries to tell us but the actions suggest otherwise.
Understand the above probably sounds a bit conspiracy esque but I just don't personally see it. I think if anything the medias continued attempts to push the narrative just adds further doubt.
What did Trump do to benefit Putin in his last presidency?
I don't follow what you are saying here. Your question was not "does anyone dispute that Ukrainians are fearful of consequences for speaking out".
Your question was:
"Have you ever seen the western media show any perspectives of Ukranians who are critical of Zelensky or the war?"
I gave you an example of a NYT article on a Ukrainian soldier who spoke critically of the war. You could have just said "thanks for sharing this article". It was an answer to your question.
Anyone having any knowledge about Keith Kellogg and what his hire could possibly mean for Ukraine?
It's quite simple. Here is my post with the full context.
1. Do you disagree.
2. Do you support this type of action against investigative journalists?
3. Well done for providing an example of another person in custody. Having provided that answer, does it change your view to point 1 and 2?
The question was related to the full context of the post. The whole point of it being that there is very little opposition perspectives being broadcast in our media from Ukranians.
Me providing an example of an investigative journalist being intimidated shows the risks. You providing an example of someone now in custody shows the risks and restrictions on freedom of speech.
If you disagree with this then just come out and say it? You think we are given impartial broadcasting with a fair representation of perspective? You think Ukranians have complete freedom of speech and can speak out against the war without worrying about their life or rights?
I don't know how many times or different ways I have to explain how your reply supported the over arching meaning of my post.
I presume you dispute this though given you continue to challenge the fact it supports my overall point. So why don't you expand on this?
Or are we simply arguing semantics here and you also agree that it supports my overall arching point?
1. No.
2. No
Again, you weren't asking if anyone disputed that there is martial law or that there are fears & consequences for speaking out. That was not what I was responding to. Your question wasn't if anyone disputes that those things happen.
I responded to your question about the Western media. That question can be responsed to in isolation.
So I gave you examples of what your question was about:
"Have you ever seen the western media show any perspectives of Ukranians who are critical of Zelensky or the war?"
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1. No direct link to Putin. From what I gather it's yet to go through court? Disputed by some involved too. Weird that we don't get told about "Starmers/Farages active election interference" by actively having their parties campaign. Russiaphobia. A load of American right wingers saying right wing stuff shocker.
2. So wait the whole basis of this is. FBI say an email from a Russian email address said there were bombs everywhere so they closed all the polling stations and found no bombs and this is the headline news? The Russians also denied it. So if I made an email on https://mail.ru/ and said there were bombs and as the email comes from a Russian domain... that constitutes interference? This is russiaphobia and a non story. How is this actually news.
3. You mean Oleg Deripaska? Employer of Trump's former campaign chairman. The same Oleg who has made anti war comments and also criticised the government publicly in recent years?
4. Removing 1000 troops from another foreign country (syria) is the big reward in this special relationship? Maybe he will remove 2000 troops from somewhere this term?
5. Both deny the calls but they agree covid testing kits were sent. Russia also sent ventilators to the USA too due to shortages. I'd say this one I can see more of a possibility of being a special arrangement.
I do think our media overstate their relationship but I absolutely could be wrong on this.
Unfortunately I feel we are dragging this way out further just to try and potray Trump as a man of peace. I think all the talk Trump has given about ending the war has actually given Putin a very strong hand at negotiations. Then it'll go one of two ways:
1. Concessions and ceasefire agreed likely at Ukraines expense for US/Russia benefit.
2. They don't come to a deal. Trump uses his "friendship" to highlight how evil Putin is if he can't come to a deal with him. WW3?
Is there something specific happening that has caused the Russian Ruble to drop 12% against USD in the week or so?
I don't even need media reports to know that Putin is supporting right wing populists in democracies all around the globe, a look into most comment sections in the prominent social networls is enough to deduce as much
Sanctions on Gazprombank last week which was the only major Russian bank not blacklisted by US.
I think it's a mixed bag to be honest. In BRICS I'd argue Brazil, South Africa and China are more to the left. Many of the other countries associated are also more towards the left.
It really comes down to what you consider left wing too. I personally don't consider parties which pursue neoliberalism such as democrat or labour left wing.
I agree though that there is alot of pro putin/Russia sentiment in the far right. Many of these in my opinion however tend to just spout whatever their Musks, Robinsons, Trump's, Murdochs spout. I think if Trump and Musk started to give anti russian/putin sentiment then their followers would also change suit.
I do accept there are also right wingers such as Orban who are very much more populist and allies of Putin too. As well as India and other Brics nations and some leaders in Europe too.
However in Moldova for instance the "pro russia" candidate was from a much more economically left wing party than the "pro eu" candidate.
Unfortunately in many Western countries it feels like economically left wing parties really struggle to breakthrough and face alot of smear campaigns. In a way I think it's affected people's perceptions of left wing too and maybe this is why it feels like the centre moves further to the right each election.
I was referring to your good times comment. You tell me what you meant.
Watch the clip, Putin is being sarcastic, the audience laughs.
1. "The Biden administration said the indictment was part of a wider effort to counter a major Russian government effort to influence the 2024 US presidential election that included sanctions on ten individuals and entities, and the seizure of 32 internet domain." I mean, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck etc.
2. Just the most recent example, but I could have cited many others. How about this direct quote from a Russian presidential aide: "To achieve success in the election, Donald Trump relied on certain forces to which he has corresponding obligations,” Patrushev told the business daily Kommersant in response to a question about whether the outcome of the presidential election would bode well for Russia. “As a responsible person, he will be obliged to fulfill them."
3. Yes, an example of trump trying to lift a sanction which you asked for, the same person who was sanctioned, who is Putin's bestie.
4. It was a move that directly benefitted Russia, which is what you asked for.
Amazing how some people who apparently won't take anything in the media at face value, will swallow whatever Putin says.
It does explain a lot why we are where are. Putin isn't dumb and he knew exactly that only the people he wanted to eat that up - would.
Finally sanctioning Gazprombank among most likely had an effect. It's being said by US that the bank was been used for payments for gas exports and also internal payments to soldiers etc.
Russian Central Bank said today they won't buy foreign currency on the domestic market for the rest of '24. And Peskov having to defend the fall of the ruble to his Kazakhstani audience like he's Bahgdad Bob.
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Yes compared to the rest of the world they are very much to the left. Their ideology is influenced by Marxism-Leninism.You think China's government is left wing
Fair enough. It still doesn't change my view that I think the special relationship is built up by our media. He was happy to mock Trump with Bashar al-Assad. Given the perception of his control over state media, I find it strange to broadcast so many provocative images of Trump's wife after the election. Guess it's the special relationship.
1. We will see what transpires from it. Still doesn't change its a load of right wing Americans, speaking right wing stuff.
1.1. Is the seizure of 32 Internet domains your response to the russian bomb hoax? As those domains aren't related to that it seems - https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...government-sponsored-foreign-malign-influence
2. That quote is about him being obliged to fufill his promises to his voters. Although I imagine he also has obligations to a certain lobbying group too with links to a foreign country. That won't be reported as interference.
Source - https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-nikolai-patrushev-donald-trump-russia-1984360
3. I don't understand how him removing troops from Syria is lifting a sanction for Russia. Especially a pitiful amount of troops too.
4. I was expecting something more significant than Trump and Putin having a special relationship because of a few covid tests.
The Gazprombank sanctions are being blamed for it.
But also, its possible they've turned on the money printing taps. Apparently a lot of government expenses fall due for payment in December. They are running a deficit of around 3.6 trillion roubles ($32b USD) for this year, just based on the info they've released/admitted to and there's a question mark over how they intend to fund it.
The national wealth fund that has been propping them up so far is running low. See the larger drops in December the last couple years.
Tell me you know nothing about China without telling me you know nothing about China.
I'd say it's subjective. Many people consider Democrats and Labour left wing which I don't. Some of our media even call Biden a communist or Starmer a socialist.
You can read about their ideology more here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_the_Chinese_Communist_Party
The views on capitalism section is quite interesting.