Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

OmgTheyKilkenny said:
Thank you for your honest answer.

If you want me to justify the full scale military invasion on 2022 I won't and I can't. That is an act of escalation and aggression. If you want me to justify some of the attacks on civillians, again I won't and I can't. I do not support war (in most instances).

At the same time I do not see ourselves as an innocent bystander putting Ukraines best interests at heart who has only got involved to protect another nations soverignity.

I do think there is minority support for Russia, mostly in the South and East. I imagine there was majority support for Zelensky at the beginning of the conflict. Right now I imagine there's a lot of loss of morale and war fatigue and I sympathise with that.
Like it or not Ukraine isn't going to win this war. Yes we can escalate and shoot missiles deeper into Russia - great news for Zelensky in his bunker. But who suffers when Russia escalates in return? Ukranian civillians. Who is dying on the battlefield? Ukranian civillians. There are some out there who don't wish to fight but are being forced to fight and for what? So nato can damage Russia "without losing nato blood"? (Something someone said here earlier). These are human beings with lives, families, children, homes. They aren't disposable and so the solution is negotiations. Not using Ukranian lives as fuel for "damaging russias economy a bit more" or whatever other excuse for more bloodshed after bloodshed.

I did rationale the Istanbul Communique because if I was a Ukranian who has lived through the last 2 and a half years. I think I'd be looking back on that and wishing we signed that agreement. As I imagine my life in Ukraine despite its problems was probably worth much more than dying a hero with the knowledge I put it to putin. And the reward for finally winning. Not our jobs or businesses back. Foreign western investors who now own everything. So you fight in the trenches and your reward is that your still Ukraine by name but now most of the stuff is owned by people outside Ukraine? So because its people from everywhere but Russia, that means its worth the sacrifice?

When I say I'm anti war its because I analyse things through a more human perspective and maybe at not such a high level. I don't view it as a game of command and conquer on the PC. I view it as people like you and I dying, not because we personally don't get along with the people we are fighting, but because our leaders don't like eachother.
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I sympathize with the humanity. I don't pretend I know the answers either. Ukraine is in an extremely tough spot and the trend is not looking too great. A famous example that crossed my mind is Finland's Winter War which eventually resulted in Finland ceding some territory to the Soviet Union. That territory today is still part of Russia. And I'm sure there are a variety of opinions among Ukrainians on how to end the war.

I do find some of your framing rather weird. I actually struggle to explain it. Do you look at every conflict in the sense of "why are you sacrificing and fighting, your country might get bought by (Western) foreign investors so what's the point"?
Ukrainian resistance against the invader is not unique. Many peoples and countries fought back against an invader. People fight for freedom, sovereignty, things like that.

I mean, sure, it is a valid point to ask how the rebuilding of Ukraine would look like but the same goes for how the rebuilding of Gaza would look like or any other warzone.
 
2mufc0 said:
If they didn't want to fight morale would be extremely low and I doubt they would have held the Russians off for this long. Although, I do think we are getting there slowly from reports I've been reading. But at this moment they are still fighting.
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Morale is also partially dependent on outside help. I try to regularly read and listen (with English subs) what Ukrainian soldiers are saying. One noticeable frustration was the level of restriction placed on Western weapons. They say they're fighting with one hand tied behind their back. But when they get news about new weapon shipments and new permissions, it tends to do well for morale.

One other aspect of frustration among Ukrainian troops is precisely this topic of dodging and a sense of being forgotten by people in the big cities. They have been at the front for a very long time and want time off but there aren't enough replacements.
 
Bole Top said:
couple of days ago my friend showed me some videos of UKR army forces basically kidnaping men and forcing them to join the army, literally dragging them in front of their wives and children. man, that's some scary sight.

you really have to ask what's the point then. your own country is dragging you like a worthless piece of shit in the dust to die on the battlefield without any right to choose, yet it's also selling you "democracy & freedom", things being endangered by the enemy.

how motivated can such guy be? he's basically being murdered by his own side. how much worse can enemy look in his eyes in those moments?
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Dying for democracy is an honor. I have few friends who went to fight for Ukraine (as mercenaries from USA). They weren't on the front lines, but they were deep enough to say "f this." They came back quickly as they realized this isn't like hunting terrorists in the middle east. One found and brought back a gorgeous Ukrainian wife. So the trip was well worth it.
 
OmgTheyKilkenny said:
Thank you for your honest answer.

If you want me to justify the full scale military invasion on 2022 I won't and I can't. That is an act of escalation and aggression. If you want me to justify some of the attacks on civillians, again I won't and I can't. I do not support war (in most instances).

At the same time I do not see ourselves as an innocent bystander putting Ukraines best interests at heart who has only got involved to protect another nations soverignity.

I do think there is minority support for Russia, mostly in the South and East. I imagine there was majority support for Zelensky at the beginning of the conflict. Right now I imagine there's a lot of loss of morale and war fatigue and I sympathise with that.
Like it or not Ukraine isn't going to win this war. Yes we can escalate and shoot missiles deeper into Russia - great news for Zelensky in his bunker. But who suffers when Russia escalates in return? Ukranian civillians. Who is dying on the battlefield? Ukranian civillians. There are some out there who don't wish to fight but are being forced to fight and for what? So nato can damage Russia "without losing nato blood"? (Something someone said here earlier). These are human beings with lives, families, children, homes. They aren't disposable and so the solution is negotiations. Not using Ukranian lives as fuel for "damaging russias economy a bit more" or whatever other excuse for more bloodshed after bloodshed.

I did rationale the Istanbul Communique because if I was a Ukranian who has lived through the last 2 and a half years. I think I'd be looking back on that and wishing we signed that agreement. As I imagine my life in Ukraine despite its problems was probably worth much more than dying a hero with the knowledge I put it to putin. And the reward for finally winning. Not our jobs or businesses back. Foreign western investors who now own everything. So you fight in the trenches and your reward is that your still Ukraine by name but now most of the stuff is owned by people outside Ukraine? So because its people from everywhere but Russia, that means its worth the sacrifice?

When I say I'm anti war its because I analyse things through a more human perspective and maybe at not such a high level. I don't view it as a game of command and conquer on the PC. I view it as people like you and I dying, not because we personally don't get along with the people we are fighting, but because our leaders don't like eachother.
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I understand you want to limit human suffering. It’s not only Ukrainians who are dying, it’s also Russians, many conscripted against their will.

When a country acts like Russia has don’t you think they need to be resisted rather than succumbed to? Do you think they’ll just stop with Crimea and the Donbas, and will show no further aggression in the future? If the belligerent country is rewarded for their belligerence, will they stop; historically is that what Putin has done?

Rather than pressuring Ukraine to fold couldn’t the West have done more to stop Russia, e.g. more military aid, more diplomacy; why are you not in support of that? Is Russia so strong (a country that’s hasn’t managed to defeat Ukraine in 2+ years), the combined might of the US and Europe are powerless to stop them? The reason proponents of a Ukrainian surrender are not taken seriously is because they support a might is right philosophy, but seem to conveniently ignore the “might” they are talking about is Russia, a country with an economy the size of Italy. They are a nothing, and pretending otherwise and taking seriously their threats of red lines and nuclear escalation for the last decade has done nothing but incentivised further Russian aggression.
 
Hear hear.

If Ukraine loses, those Ukrainian soldiers are forced to join the Russian army, and then next is Moldova and the Balkans. It's fight them or fight for them. Any cease fire will only give Russia time to build up equipment.
 
Beans said:
Hear hear.

If Ukraine loses, those Ukrainian soldiers are forced to join the Russian army, and then next is Moldova and the Balkans. It's fight them or fight for them. Any cease fire will only give Russia time to build up equipment.
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Really? What are Russians gonna do to those soldiers? Reprogram them? What I am trying to understand how is Russia at the same time incompetent and also threat to entire Europe. It goes something like this:
- Russians are stupid and incompetent. This thing not gonna last long before they give up.
- Russians are threat to rest of Europe, send more weapons. Ukrainians are dying but Russians are dying too so let's keep escalating this until end of time - maybe literary.

I have nothing against the argument that Ukraine should be supported to protect a young democracy which strives to end corruption and adopt western values. I disagree with the methods and tools being used to archive those goals, but it is a logical and sound argument. The notion that Russia will continue to go west if the war ends tomorrow is ridiculous.

As far as Balkan goes, I am gonna speak for Serbia only: Don't threaten us with the good time.
 
ExoduS said:
Really? What are Russians gonna do to those soldiers? Reprogram them? What I am trying to understand how is Russia at the same time incompetent and also threat to entire Europe. It goes something like this:
- Russians are stupid and incompetent. This thing not gonna last long before they give up.
- Russians are threat to rest of Europe, send more weapons. Ukrainians are dying but Russians are dying too so let's keep escalating this until end of time - maybe literary.

I have nothing against the argument that Ukraine should be supported to protect a young democracy which strives to end corruption and adopt western values. I disagree with the methods and tools being used to archive those goals, but it is a logical and sound argument. The notion that Russia will continue to go west if the war ends tomorrow is ridiculous.

As far as Balkan goes, I am gonna speak for Serbia only: Don't threaten us with the good time.
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A flipside to the "they are X and Y at the same time" gimmick is this:
- Why all this hysteria about invading Poland or another NATO country? Putin is too rational for that.
- Putin will start nuclear war.

Rational enough not to attack beyond Ukraine but irrational enough to risk suicide by throwing nukes around.

Am I doing this wrong?

For what it's worth, I don't think Putin would invade a NATO country and I also don't think the world is going to end with WW3.
 
Simbo said:
:lol: Dude we already have one professional troll taking care of us here. This place isn't big enough for the both of you!

Please refer back to point [1] of my post, you appear to have (totally intentionally) skipped it. We can't have reasoned debate with that sort of behaviour! Nor can I move on to your points.
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I don't think @VorZakone is trolling mate (I'm joking), and neither am I.

I've answered nearly every question directed my way.

I'm not really sure what the point in your question was to be honest. Are you contesting the appetite for Crimeans to join Russia? Following Ukranian independence there was significant separist movements in Crimea. Following Orange Revolution there were separist movements. In response to Euromaiden there was antimaiden protests...

The correlation between all of the above is that they tended to occur after divisive political issues. Any idea of any which occurred prior to the Crimean annexation? Any idea of any laws criticised by the Venice Commission, OSCE and Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group which also may have pushed separatism.
 
OmgTheyKilkenny said:
At the same time I do not see ourselves as an innocent bystander putting Ukraines best interests at heart who has only got involved to protect another nations soverignity.
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Does anyone here believe that countries in general act in external politics according to their altruistic inner voice? That's literally the opposite of what external politics is. It doesn't really matters why they are supporting Ukraine as long as they do.
 
VorZakone said:
A flipside to the "they are X and Y at the same time" gimmick is this:
- Why all this hysteria about invading Poland or another NATO country? Putin is too rational for that.
- Putin will start nuclear war.

Rational enough not to attack beyond Ukraine but irrational enough to risk suicide by throwing nukes around.

Am I doing this wrong?

For what it's worth, I don't think Putin would invade a NATO country and I also don't think the world is going to end with WW3.
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I have no clue how Putin thinks or what he will do. I think he will not attack Poland because it is not in their strategic interest to control Poland. Ukraine on another hand, as expressed by Putin, is of vital interest to Russia. I am not arguing morality behind it. There is rarely a good reason to bring troops to another country uninvited. The reality is that Russia wants access to the Black Sea and as it stands right now - they got it. The time is to negotiate before this conflict truly gets out of hand.
 
ExoduS said:
Really? What are Russians gonna do to those soldiers? Reprogram them?
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Russia is already forcing Ukrainian men from the occupied territory into the army. Through torture and detainment and as you put it reprogramming via propaganda. The longer the occupation remains and specially if a peace deal is made allowing Russia to keep those territories for good, the population is theirs to control (or transfer into Russia). See Chechnya.
 
VorZakone said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/19/world/europe/ukraine-troop-fatigue.html
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Thank you for proving my point.

On November 19, the Kyiv Court of Appeals upheld a decision to keep Serhiy Hnezdilov, a soldier of the 56th Separate Motorized Infantry Mariupol Brigade, in custody. Hnezdilov faces charges of going AWOL.

The court rejected his appeal against a pretrial detention order issued by the Pechersk District Court in Kyiv, meaning Hnezdilov will remain in custody for 60 days without the possibility of bail.

The embittered soldier said he was planning to challenge the verdict adding it would make him go on hunger strike unless Ukraine’s defense ministry comes up with a bill addressing demobilization procedures. He added he was ready to return to service if the proposed legislation is passed.

On October 11, the court ordered the detention of Hnezdilov after he publicly admitted to leaving his military unit. Hnezdilov argued that he was trying to draw attention to the situation when there are no clear policy for when and how soldiers can be demobilized.

In his statements, Hnezdilov vented his frustration over the burden infantry troops face in combat zones while many other Ukrainian men dodge the military service using different schemes like fake medical exemptions. He also spoke about the mental and physical exhaustion among soldiers, calling out Ukrainians on the home front of their failure to share the responsibility.

Hnezdilov’s case has sparked debate about the strain on military personnel and calls for reforms in Ukraine’s mobilization and service policies.
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Source- https://bukvy.org/en/soldier-serhiy...amid-controversy-over-military-service-terms/


Given what's happened to Serhiy since he spoke out. Do you think many other Ukranians will speak out now?
 
OmgTheyKilkenny said:
Thank you for proving my point.



Source- https://bukvy.org/en/soldier-serhiy...amid-controversy-over-military-service-terms/


Given what's happened to Serhiy since he spoke out. Do you think many other Ukranians will speak out now?
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Your question was:
"Have you ever seen the western media show any perspectives of Ukranians who are critical of Zelensky or the war?"

I provided examples. How Ukrainians respond to what happened to that soldier is irrelevant to your question about Western media.
 
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VorZakone said:
I sympathize with the humanity. I don't pretend I know the answers either. Ukraine is in an extremely tough spot and the trend is not looking too great. A famous example that crossed my mind is Finland's Winter War which eventually resulted in Finland ceding some territory to the Soviet Union. That territory today is still part of Russia. And I'm sure there are a variety of opinions among Ukrainians on how to end the war.

I do find some of your framing rather weird. I actually struggle to explain it. Do you look at every conflict in the sense of "why are you sacrificing and fighting, your country might get bought by (Western) foreign investors so what's the point"?
Ukrainian resistance against the invader is not unique. Many peoples and countries fought back against an invader. People fight for freedom, sovereignty, things like that.

I mean, sure, it is a valid point to ask how the rebuilding of Ukraine would look like but the same goes for how the rebuilding of Gaza would look like or any other warzone.
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I try to understand the motives behind the conflicts. I'm maybe an enigma in the sense that while I believe our mainstream media is quite heavily influenced. I'm also not naive enough to believe the world's richest man and president trump are the "anti establishment" truth tellers or whatever they potray themselves as. I find it quite ironic that people think the most privileged are some sort of "anti elite".

The reason I don't trust the media in whole is because I've witnessed propaganda and smear campaigns myself. It doesn't mean I don't trust it or reference it myself, I do, because for most things its right. But when it comes to stuff like Ukraine - I do my own due diligence on too. I used to share views more similar to your own and now I'm just a bit more cynical. Maybe I'm just falling for propoganda. Maybe you are. Maybe we both are.

As for the west. You have to recognise the 100s of military bases encompassing 80 odd countries (from US). You also have to recognise how many previous interferences from the west have resulted in the privatisation of natural resources. So yes if I read about USA interfering in Venezeula and I know of Venezuelas oil reserves then boy I'm going to be doing some due diligence to see if there are other motives and if there is a history of previous interference.
Like when it comes to human rights abuses Saudi Arabia has to be up there. Yet who are we doing loads of military trade with? What natural resources do they have?

So is it always about human rights or democracy or is it also about money too on occasion? Is this why we don't help Gaza like you say but instead help bomb it? Who knows.

None of that excuses Russias actions or crimes of course.
 
Whilst we're all being drowned in the usual bullshit, some news from the real world. It appears the Russian central bank may have given up on keeping the rouble below 100 to the USD. Another red line crossed... It threatened to take off today, reaching 107 before a quick bit of intervention dropped it to 105 before close.

Some potentially well timed sanctions on Gazprombank appear to have added some pressure to it. The cost of controlling it ever increases, right before winter...
https://www.ft.com/content/6189fdb4-d1ef-4e0b-a7f1-e7f9a7286df5

"Its good for exports" they'll tell us. Right, good luck with that... Its becoming increasingly certain that this war ends with Russian economics and there's a non-zero chance something goes critical over this winter. Unlikely perhaps, but its going to be very interesting watching what they do.

Government bills fall due in December and there's a big fat question mark over how they are going to fund this years' deficit. Do they raid the reserves? It would all but wipe them out. Do they take out loans? Oh, they can't :lol: Honestly I don't want to hear another conversation about who's winning this war without the fundamental fact being stated that the Russian Central Bank CANNOT RAISE DEBT, internationally or domestically (very fecked).

So, short of selling off Siberia, its inevitable that the money printing machines spin faster and faster. When hyper-inflation takes hold there's no going back. They can theoretically sustain for a while like that, but we'll see just how fanatically loyal Putin's men really are as their entire wealth disintegrates around them and it becomes every man for themself. Russian intelligence isn't known to be one big happy family. Assuming the Russian people don't take care of it first somehow. Putin has done everything possible to shelter the city dwellers up until now, that's becoming impossible.
 
VorZakone said:
Your question was:
"Have you ever seen the western media show any perspectives of Ukranians who are critical of Zelensky or the war?"

I provided examples. How Ukrainians respond to what happened to that soldier is irrelevant to your question about Western media.
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OmgTheyKilkenny said:
Not under martial law it isn't. It's the decision of Zelensky. That's why there is mandatory conscription.

Freedom of speech and right to protest amongst other things are severely restricted under martial law - especially if it could hinder the war effort.

Here is an example of what happens when you're a critic.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/01/19/several-investigative-journalists-under-pressure-ukraine

Have you ever seen the western media show any perspectives of Ukranians who are critical of Zelensky or the war?
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You may have answered my question but in doing so you also proved my point. And so as a result not many people speak out and of those who do not much reaches the main stream media.
 
OmgTheyKilkenny said:
You may have answered my question but in doing so you also proved my point. And so as a result not many people speak out and of those who do not much reaches the main stream media.
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Don't twist it now. When I replied to you, I bolded the question. I gave you examples of Western media articles with perspectives of Ukrainians being critical of Zelensky and the war.

Now you are saying "of those who do not much reaches the main stream media".

For all your due dilligence, you apparently couldn't find 1 article. You've changed from "have you ever seen Western media report on X" to "not much of X reaches Western media".
 
Quality control
VorZakone said:
Don't twist it now. When I replied to you, I bolded the question. I gave you examples of Western media articles with perspectives of Ukrainians being critical of Zelensky and the war.

Now you are saying "of those who do not much reaches the main stream media".

For all your due dilligence, you apparently couldn't find 1 article. You've changed from "have you ever seen Western media report on X" to "not much of X reaches Western medmedia"
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Nothings being twisted Vorzakone. You quoted a post of mine where I referenced the lack of voices speaking out and send alot of it is due to martial law and restrictions on speech and asked to show examples of people speaking out.

Of course there'll be some examples. But a load of links about government officials criticising decisions on infrastructure or corruption I don't think really comes under speech which affects the war effort. However your first source was from 2 anonymous people. I wonder why?

Your last source was especially interesting as it seems there are groups with 100s of thousands of members in kyiv where they warn eachother about the military trying to forcibly conscript people. I found it interesting that the article referenced forenames along with pictures of silhouettes too. Usually they only do that if they feel there's a need to conceal an identity?

And then of course your other source was about somebody now in custody after speaking out.

Round 1 goes to Kenny.
 
OmgTheyKilkenny said:
Nothings being twisted Vorzakone. You quoted a post of mine where I referenced the lack of voices speaking out and send alot of it is due to martial law and restrictions on speech and asked to show examples of people speaking out.

Of course there'll be some examples. But a load of links about government officials criticising decisions on infrastructure or corruption I don't think really comes under speech which affects the war effort. However your first source was from 2 anonymous people. I wonder why?

Your last source was especially interesting as it seems there are groups with 100s of thousands of members in kyiv where they warn eachother about the military trying to forcibly conscript people. I found it interesting that the article referenced forenames along with pictures of silhouettes too. Usually they only do that if they feel there's a need to conceal an identity?

And then of course your other source was about somebody now in custody after speaking out.

Round 1 goes to Kenny.
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"Of course there'll be some examples."

So Western media do report on Ukrainians who are critical? This was your question:
"Have you ever seen the western media show any perspectives of Ukranians who are critical of Zelensky or the war?"
 
Russian economy is definitely feeling the squeeze by now.

They've tanked the reparations injured and dead soldiers receive as well now, so morale and enlistment won't be great atm.
 
OmgTheyKilkenny said:
Saying I don't agree with how it is portrayed isn't me excusing Russia - it's me saying I don't agree with how the conflict is portrayed.

With respect I've asked a number of questions in response to people who have quoted me which have went unanswered while trying to answer everything in return. What was the precise question and I'll try to answer it (Can't see it in past post).

I do not support Russias military invasion in 2022. I'm very anti war and consider myself a pacifist (Not an absolute pacifist). Nearly every war eventually ends through negotiations and concessions of some sort. My interest however is in the conditions which resulted in war and if it could have been avoided. And also how to then find long lasting peace too which serves the best interests of Ukranians in every region rather than the interests of West/Kyiv/Russia.

I'd like to refer you and others in this thread to an excellent speech by John Maclean in 1918 from the docks of Edinburgh. This speech alligns with many of my thoughts towards war. In a world with rife inequality the only war we should be fighting in the west is the class war as far as I'm concerned.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/maclean/works/1918-dock.htm

You don't have to agree with me and I'm not here to change your mind either. But my beliefs and ideology is certainly different from most in this thread and because of those beliefs there are certain things I don't think we will allign on.

I consider Zelenskys victory plan which involves the mass privatisation of Ukraine to be imperialist in nature. And so no Russian crime or Russiaphobia is going to change my stance on that. Whether that makes me "pro russia" is up to you. I consider it more anti imperialist as I also don't support Russia controlling territory or resources/infrastructure against the will of the people too.

And so this is why I believe Ukranians will be the biggest losers come the end of this. Doesn't mean I'm right but it's what I believe at this moment and time.
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I dont agree in some things but that's what forums are for, for a normal, civil discussion. :)

Ukraine is the biggest loser and will be the biggest loser whatever happens, that's sadly a fact.
 
Wasnt Kiev supposed to fall within days? Russia is losing this too, not only Ukraine. When the war is eventually over and it has taken a huge toll on both countries the russian economy might fully collapse. The inflation is already very high and thats under war-economy.

the longer ukraine can keep on the worse it will be for russia in the long run
 
Bole Top said:
couple of days ago my friend showed me some videos of UKR army forces basically kidnaping men and forcing them to join the army, literally dragging them in front of their wives and children. man, that's some scary sight.

you really have to ask what's the point then. your own country is dragging you like a worthless piece of shit in the dust to die on the battlefield without any right to choose, yet it's also selling you "democracy & freedom", things being endangered by the enemy.

how motivated can such guy be? he's basically being murdered by his own side. how much worse can enemy look in his eyes in those moments?
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I get what you're saying but they are endangered by the enemy and they are fighting for their country. Sadly it has come to the point of dragging people from the streets due to losses. Forget freedom and democracy Ukraine as itself is in danger of existing or not.

From the start of this war I've seen many parallels to our Homeland war.
 
Sly said:
The guy has written in another thread that he wished that Clare Daly won a seat in an Irish election. Google her and the respective opinion about the Russian aggression and you will understand his reasoning and talking points.
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For those unaware, she’s an Irish independent politician, who along with another head-the-bin in Mick Wallace, appeared on Russian TV to promote (that’s what it was) anti-NATO and anti-western messaging
 
Also amazed people think and act like life in Russian occupied territories is all dilly dally. One asked how are they going to pressure and enlist people to Russian army. I'm sure they'll going to ask them nicely.
 
Real Name said:
I get what you're saying but they are endangered by the enemy and they are fighting for their country. Sadly it has come to the point of dragging people from the streets due to losses.
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these guys kinda looked endangered by their own side :lol:
 
Ukrainian former minister Kuleba is sceptical.

Kuleba has said that won’t work, given that Putin isn’t interested in diplomacy and is instead trying to wear the West down — in the belief that he can get everything he wants.

The former foreign minister also can’t see how President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, his former boss, can sign any pact accepting the annexation of Crimea or of the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine, despite his claim to be looking for diplomatic solutions.
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B20 said:
Russian economy is definitely feeling the squeeze by now.

They've tanked the reparations injured and dead soldiers receive as well now, so morale and enlistment won't be great atm.
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More North Koreans? Perhaps he'll raid Africa too?
 
Andersonson said:
Wasnt Kiev supposed to fall within days? Russia is losing this too, not only Ukraine. When the war is eventually over and it has taken a huge toll on both countries the russian economy might fully collapse. The inflation is already very high and thats under war-economy.

the longer ukraine can keep on the worse it will be for russia in the long run
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Conflict is not a zero-sum game and nobody is really winning here. Who will be the biggest or only loser is mostly dependent on who can control narrative and vibes better rather than any actual reality on the ground.
 
Trump has basically announced he'll start a trade war with China on his first day in office. While Russia was actively supporting Trump's election, this can't really be in China's best interest. Do we think this could further alienate China from Russia and could the Trump presidency actually turn out to be a double-edged sword for Putin? Especially if Ukraine holds on to Kursk until Trump's inauguration and his likely push for peace negotiations/areal concessions?
 
Ukraine should stop escalating the conflict and really accept Russian terms for the war to stop.
 
Real Name said:
Ukraine should stop escalating the conflict and really accept Russian terms for the war to stop.
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Always easy to cede other people lands and expect them to bend over and take it. It didn't stop with Crimea, so yes lets agree peace and a few years later do it all over again...
 
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