Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

AfonsoAlves said:
This is why I can never support the foreign policy of the left wing - to them war is the worst of all outcomes and that it should be stopped by any means necessary no matter what the other costs are. To me, that is stupid, aggravating and downright insulting.
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It also glosses over the incontrovertible reality that war remains the ultimate arbiter among nation states, especially on a planet without a world government or a legal apparatus to arbitrate disputes peacefully. In such a system, power will always override morality and win out.
 
I'm confused and surprised by the inaction over North Korean troops in Ukraine. It's crazy really, in part because of the escalatory nature of what is a foreign power from another continent now invading a European country (yes Russia was invading what it sees as it's own but still) and in part because although yes there are "only" 10,000 so far, apparently the logistics are set up to allow for far more potentially in the future, though that's currently anecdotal.

I'd be shocked if there wasn't a further escalation from the West in response, as there should be. We are edging closer every week to world war 3, and the fact a third country now has troops on the ground cannot be ignored.
 
Scholz (allegedly) proposes Finlandization of Ukraine. Finland's ambassador in Berlin not a fan.

Notably, Finland's ambassador in Berlin, Kai Sauer, speaks up to oppose the idea: “It is not in our interest to restore any artificial spheres of interest”, he told me.

We are "obliged to respect the freedom of choice" of Ukraine, "as well as its territorial integrity."
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GazTheLegend said:
I'm confused and surprised by the inaction over North Korean troops in Ukraine. It's crazy really, in part because of the escalatory nature of what is a foreign power from another continent now invading a European country (yes Russia was invading what it sees as it's own but still) and in part because although yes there are "only" 10,000 so far, apparently the logistics are set up to allow for far more potentially in the future, though that's currently anecdotal.

I'd be shocked if there wasn't a further escalation from the West in response, as there should be. We are edging closer every week to world war 3, and the fact a third country now has troops on the ground cannot be ignored.
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I think part of the lack of response is because how close we are to the US elections. They don't want to do anything right now that can be seen as escalation, or acknowledge escalation from Russia. Talking about WW3 only helps Trump - he'd get this all sorted out ofcourse on day 1 with a peace deal.

Hopefully once the election results will be announced, regardless of outcome, Biden can give a stronger response and lift some restrictions on Ukraines use of long range attacks with Western weapons on Russia (absurd to have those restrictions to begin with). I guess we'll know in a few days.
 
Mavs said:
I think part of the lack of response is because how close we are to the US elections. They don't want to do anything right now that can be seen as escalation, or acknowledge escalation from Russia. Talking about WW3 only helps Trump - he'd get this all sorted out ofcourse on day 1 with a peace deal.

Hopefully once the election results will be announced, regardless of outcome, Biden can give a stronger response and lift some restrictions on Ukraines use of long range attacks with Western weapons on Russia (absurd to have those restrictions to begin with). I guess we'll know in a few days.
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That's the hope. Biden is already a lame duck but won't want to knee cap Harris if she wins. If Trump wins, Biden will be incentivized to front load as much Ukraine support as he can before leaving office.
 
Western security officials say they believe that two incendiary devices, shipped via DHL, were part of a covert Russian operation that ultimately aimed to start fires aboard cargo or passenger aircraft flying to the U.S. and Canada, as Moscow steps up a sabotage campaign against Washington and its allies.

The devices ignited at DHL logistics hubs in July, one in Leipzig, Germany, and another in Birmingham, England. The explosions set off a multinational race to find the culprits.
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West turned blind eye on Kakhovka dam destruction. I'd actually be surprised if they didn't have a weak response towards NK troops in Ukraine.
 
GazTheLegend said:
I'm confused and surprised by the inaction over North Korean troops in Ukraine. It's crazy really, in part because of the escalatory nature of what is a foreign power from another continent now invading a European country (yes Russia was invading what it sees as it's own but still) and in part because although yes there are "only" 10,000 so far, apparently the logistics are set up to allow for far more potentially in the future, though that's currently anecdotal.

I'd be shocked if there wasn't a further escalation from the West in response, as there should be. We are edging closer every week to world war 3, and the fact a third country now has troops on the ground cannot be ignored.
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This is how it is. North Korea is declaring a defacto war on Ukraine, so Ukraine can feel free to retaliate against N.Korea. The problem is that they can.

If US and Europe puts boots on the ground, can be seen as a declaration of war against Russia, specially if they attack russian soil. And if you declare war on Russia, you may pay consequences. Imagine receive bombs in Paris, London or Rome how would fair.

Unfortunately, the N.Korean situation is nothing that the west can respond to as it is already an isolated and rogue state. That will become even more dangerous because they are not lending 10k of soldiers for free but most likely for resources and military technology advancement
 
4bars said:
This is how it is. North Korea is declaring a defacto war on Ukraine, so Ukraine can feel free to retaliate against N.Korea. The problem is that they can.

If US and Europe puts boots on the ground, can be seen as a declaration of war against Russia, specially if they attack russian soil. And if you declare war on Russia, you may pay consequences. Imagine receive bombs in Paris, London or Rome how would fair.

Unfortunately, the N.Korean situation is nothing that the west can respond to as it is already an isolated and rogue state. That will become even more dangerous because they are not lending 10k of soldiers for free but most likely for resources and military technology advancement
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The point being that it's not 'just' going to be 10k of soldiers.

By all accounts, Ukraine could wipe out 10k NK soldiers, another 10k soldiers could be sent and then the claim can be there are "only" 10k soldiers on the ground again a second time. And a third, and a fourth, and a 10th. 10k troops deliberately doesn't sound a lot. 100,000 does, and is.

Maybe the US and Europe can't put boots on the ground for Ukraine, but can a third party then send troops and de facto align themselves with the Ukrainians? Kenya isn't in NATO. Can the Kenyans be allowed to intercede in the same way? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024...intervene-in-haiti-and-how-is-the-us-involved

It sounds ridiculous but the same game Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un are playing can be played right back at them too. And "mercenary companies" can be enlisted to give manpower in the same way that Wagner Group wasn't. Blackwater are already there, etc. This will escalate and there will be troops of all sorts of flags flying by the time this insane "special operation" draws to a close.

And if you declare war on Russia, you may pay consequences. Imagine receive bombs in Paris, London or Rome how would fair.
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Russia's entire armed service would be -annihilated- in a conventional war, look how pathetic their navy has shown to be. They are a regional power at best. The ONLY thing saving them from being completely trashed -right now- is their nuclear capability, and the threat they pose in asymmetric warfare as what amounts to the biggest, dumbest mafia state on planet Earth. And how can you trust the word of people who lie as often as they draw breath, so it's not like you can propose a truce or treaty that would be broken as soon as it was convenient.

It's a dangerous and idiotic situation to be in, but here we are
 
GazTheLegend said:
The point being that it's not 'just' going to be 10k of soldiers.

By all accounts, Ukraine could wipe out 10k NK soldiers, another 10k soldiers could be sent and then the claim can be there are "only" 10k soldiers on the ground again a second time. And a third, and a fourth, and a 10th. 10k troops deliberately doesn't sound a lot. 100,000 does, and is.

Maybe the US and Europe can't put boots on the ground for Ukraine, but can a third party then send troops and de facto align themselves with the Ukrainians? Kenya isn't in NATO. Can the Kenyans be allowed to intercede in the same way? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024...intervene-in-haiti-and-how-is-the-us-involved

It sounds ridiculous but the same game Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un are playing can be played right back at them too. And "mercenary companies" can be enlisted to give manpower in the same way that Wagner Group wasn't. Blackwater are already there, etc. This will escalate and there will be troops of all sorts of flags flying by the time this insane "special operation" draws to a close.


Russia's entire armed service would be -annihilated- in a conventional war, look how pathetic their navy has shown to be. They are a regional power at best. The ONLY thing saving them from being completely trashed -right now- is their nuclear capability, and the threat they pose in asymmetric warfare as what amounts to the biggest, dumbest mafia state on planet Earth. And how can you trust the word of people who lie as often as they draw breath, so it's not like you can propose a truce or treaty that would be broken as soon as it was convenient.

It's a dangerous and idiotic situation to be in, but here we are
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Every country can do whatever they like accepting the consequence and risk/benefit analisis and north korea did and russia too.

Kenya could do the same. And the west is doing the same


Nkorea knows it will not be punsihed for it as ia already being punished. And he benefits of russian economic help and military technology advances (last misile tests seems showing that). Also, so far they are in russian sovereign land so russian can do as they please there.

Kenya could do the same for ukraine, if their risk/analysis would come positive
 
Pintu said:
How relevant is this when China is still bankrolling them?

We should be providing Ukraine with all the weapons they need and with no restrictions… But it seems we can’t risk it, because Russia might help the houthis attack Israel and disturb the holy genocide we all have to support. As long as Netanyahu’s unquestionable right to commit genocide takes priority we can’t really help Ukraine.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/25/us/politics/russia-houthis-weapons.html
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They're not. At the moment they're using Russia's desperate situation to get natural resources at insane discounts and to boost their own economy by substituting most of the previously Western imports. I'm pretty sure that they're actually gaining money on this overall.
 
GazTheLegend said:
I'm confused and surprised by the inaction over North Korean troops in Ukraine. It's crazy really, in part because of the escalatory nature of what is a foreign power from another continent now invading a European country (yes Russia was invading what it sees as it's own but still) and in part because although yes there are "only" 10,000 so far, apparently the logistics are set up to allow for far more potentially in the future, though that's currently anecdotal.

I'd be shocked if there wasn't a further escalation from the West in response, as there should be. We are edging closer every week to world war 3, and the fact a third country now has troops on the ground cannot be ignored.
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I would imagine that them not actually being in Ukraine — as per reports — also influences the matter? As far as I know, they've deployed North Korean soldiers in Kursk, which is an internationally recognized Russian territory (not like Crimea or Donetsk/Lughansk). Yes it's a complete technicality since it's still the same conflict that Russia started but I'd imagine that it can be important for Western politicians.
 
harms said:
I would imagine that them not actually being in Ukraine — as per reports — also influences the matter? As far as I know, they've deployed North Korean soldiers in Kursk, which is an internationally recognized Russian territory (not like Crimea or Donetsk/Lughansk). Yes it's a complete technicality since it's still the same conflict that Russia started but I'd imagine that it can be important for Western politicians.
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This, plus I don't think it can really be responded to until they are documented as actually doing anything. Yes, its fairly obvious why they are in Russia, but until they are actually documented as entering the war against Ukraine through action, its not certain.
 
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